Robb's SAS

Hey Guys!
OK, I was trying to put off starting a thread like this until stuff got closer to done, but I have been asked so many questions in the middle of other threads, I thought I should.

This is the plan:
-SOA
-HP YJ D30 SFA
-35"s

As a lot of you guys know, I had the oppurtunity to have the work done by an expert at one heck of a good price. The SOA and SFA are being done by Cory at CRL Customs So, as far as the really technical stuff, I will have no idea since I am not the person actually doing the work.

OK, the first obvious question. "Why a D30?" I know most people instantly think of a D44 when they think of a SAS for an Explorer. The idea of a D30 hit me when I was planning on doing the project myself (which would have never become reality). I liked how the YJ D30 was about the same width, bolt pattern was the same, I thought leafs would be pretty easy (Wrong!), and $$$. So I started looking into the pros and cons of the D30, and after a lot of research, I felt it met my requirements for what I was looking for out of an axle. And to be honest, I think stock D44s (especially LPs) are a bit overated (yep, I said it). They aren't the strongest things on Earth like a lot of people seem to think.

OK, enough yapping for a starter post. Let me throw a few pics of the progress.

Robb

Start with a stock pic:

 

[BUCHVILLEMAN]

with a coil setup i think that you are still going to have to weld quite a bit. the coil buckets and shock mounts as well as crossmember and sway bar mounts.

welding aint so bad. practise and get the hang of it first. the hardest part is cutting! i used a torch on part and a swazall on part and grinder to clean it all up. i like using the torch but i was paranoid about catching the truck on fire.... i did a few times

i feel paranoid about braking at 85mph! even though the brakes work awesome and im confident in my welding of the perches and bolting on of everything else, sitting that high it is very intimidating to brake hard. so i generally keep it at 50-60 which is 60-70 with the larger tires and speedo offset.

 

[cdsl227]

Does the width of the track in the front as opposed to the width of the track in the rear play a huge role in handling??

I mean granted it's only what about an inch?

What's the best year/type to use for coil and best year for leaf?

I'm trying to go minimal grief, junkyards and shops out my way aren't as helpful with stuff like this- if it isn't direct replacement they want no part of it.

Thanks!

 

[DasFrem]

Well, Chris (Lizzard) got his from an 85 Grand Wagoneer (refered to as Waggys) So they're on all the Waggys with a drivers side drop and low pinion pumpkin with leaf spring pearches. You can use the Early Bronco (EB) alxes that are also low pinion and set up for coils with Radius Arms (RA) but what is prefered is the 78-79 D44 High Pinion axle out of a Bronco/F150 since it's stronger than the low pinion axle, but you have to cut it down to EB width (if you don't want to run full width) A little more pricey, but I think it's worth it.

BUCHVILLEMAN, I know there's gonna be more than enough welding, but it looks like it will be less than a leaf setup, hopefully. I'm trying to read as much as possible on the subject and practice as much as possible so that I will be ready for when the project begins.

Hopefully I'm going to purchace all my parts and get them all ready before starting the project. Lizzard and Muskrat got hurried into theirs because of broken parts, hopefully I'll keep mine together a little longer so that I can take my time.

 

[CoryL]

Originally posted by DasFrem
...but what is prefered is the 78-79 D44 High Pinion axle out of a Bronco/F150 since it's stronger than the low pinion axle

Actually, those aren't the preferred axles. That axle has the c-bushing wedges cast into the axle and are not easily removeable. This is an important factor unless you like your radius arms to be angled like \ / (when looking from above).

The ideal axle to use is a 1977 or older (not far how back, but it does matter) F-150 D44. It will be HP and the c-bushing wedges will be welded on and can easily be removed and rewelded so your radius arms are closer to looking like | | .

 

[DasFrem]

Originally posted by CoryL
The ideal axle to use is a 1977 or older (not far how back, but it does matter) F-150 D44. It will be HP and the c-bushing wedges will be welded on and can easily be removed and rewelded so your radius arms are closer to looking like | | .

I did not know that. I thought the first D44HP was in 78. See, I'm still learning new isht every day. How then did the other guys who shortened their 78-79 axles move the c-bushing wedges?

EDIT: Here's another question, how hard would it be to run them full size instead of cutting them down with those exteded RA's? or since they're about 6" wider would it be all out of alignment for good use?

 

[taxx]

Robb, how did you end up doing the brake lines? You gonna have two coming down - one to each side or just one coming down in the center then split to the sides? I am thinking it might be easier with our setup the way it is to have two seperate lines come down, just gotta keep them out of the way.

 

[Jefe]

Originally posted by BUCHVILLEMAN
ide like to see the coil set up too. with some nice coil over, long travel, remote resevior shocks....

Just wait

I'm hoping to begin cutting off the IFS in about 6 weeks

 

[BUCHVILLEMAN]

i cant wait!

seriosuly thats what i would prefer but mine was a budget job. its gonna be so sweet!

 

[RockRanger]

Originally posted by DasFrem
I did not know that. I thought the first D44HP was in 78.

The hipinion was first available in broncos in 78 when they went to full size. I believe the high pinion started in 73 with the f150s. Also I think they started coming with disk brakes in 78. I have a 76 in my garage and it is drum brake and has the welded on ears for the radius arms.

Also you guys are all nuts cutting up almost brand new truck to do this to. I like it i think I may want to get a newer explorer eventually to do this cause I am liking how they are turning out.

Matt

 

[Robb]

Ryan1: I will work out a detailed total cost in the future, but it is hard to predict for a future SAS because there are so many variables involved. For now, just for the axle and all involved in getting it under there with steering (no shocks), I got about $1000 in parts in it. IMO, cheap compared to a SLA susp lift!!!

unclemeat: I have checked out the Trading Post and every other "used merchandise" outlet here in Richmond. I know a dealer that can get me 35/12.5 Regul Trailblazer MTs mounted and balanced for $525 out the door, so, that will prolly be the route I take.

BUCHVILLEMAN: Sway bars? What are sway bars? J/K! I don't have any and don't plan on any. I never trusted my X in stock form over 75mph, so I should be okay.

taxxman2k: The brakelines are set-up just as they were stock with the two seperate front lines. They aren't set-up like a typical solid axle with one hose going to the axle and then split to hard lines from there. I need to get extended hoses for both sides at this point.

RockRanger: I agree we are nuts!!! My '95 EB with it's mileage in stock form is prolly worth about $6-7K. Now, I would be lucky to get half that!!

Robb

 

[Randall]

Originally posted by CoryL
Actually, those aren't the preferred axles. That axle has the c-bushing wedges cast into the axle and are not easily removeable. This is an important factor unless you like your radius arms to be angled like \ / (when looking from above).

The ideal axle to use is a 1977 or older (not far how back, but it does matter) F-150 D44. It will be HP and the c-bushing wedges will be welded on and can easily be removed and rewelded so your radius arms are closer to looking like | | .

I am going to have to disagree with you here, unless you are only talking about using the axle full width. If you are cutting it down, then the c-wedges are already in the right place. Mine angle out, but only enough so that the coils can be mounted outside of the frame rails. If your radius arms were like this: | | , then your lower coil mounts would then lie directly under the frame rail.

 

[cdsl227]

Originally posted by morrisey0
RockRanger: I agree we are nuts!!! My '95 EB with it's mileage in stock form is prolly worth about $6-7K. Now, I would be lucky to get half that!!

Robb

Hell with the SAS you'd probably get twice what you thought!

Errr, ummm...excuse me- I mean twice what the book is!

 

[Jefe]

Originally posted by RockRanger
Also you guys are all nuts cutting up almost brand new truck to do this to. . .

I'm not nuts Matt. . .I'm just making my rig capable of following around those of you that are

 

[CoryL]

Originally posted by Mudd*****
I am going to have to disagree with you here, unless you are only talking about using the axle full width. If you are cutting it down, then the c-wedges are already in the right place. Mine angle out, but only enough so that the coils can be mounted outside of the frame rails. If your radius arms were like this: | | , then your lower coil mounts would then lie directly under the frame rail.

I always forget people want to cut axles down so I never take it into consideration. I don't really understand why.

True, if the arms were exactly like | | then they would be under the frame if the rear mounts were under the frame, which is why I said "closer" to | |. There is nothing inbetween | | and \ /

 

[cdsl227]

Ok Gentlemen, all you Straight Axle Gods...

Boy I brown-nose good!!

I need some questions answered because it looks like I'm going to do the SAS sooner than I thought...

Please anyone that has done the SAS or has the necessary knowledge- educate this idiot!
Questions:

Why use the Leaf spring for SAS?


Conversely- why use Coil for SAS?


Is there an advantage of one over the other?

Which is more durable- Leaf or Coil? (only reason I ask is because I've dropped front ends (coil), but never had a rear drop on me (leaf, that is).

Is there any simple solution to the steering- or is it that nothing fits or there's nothing that can be used from another vehicle and everything has to be fabricated (aside from the steering box), ie drag link, trac-bar and anything else?

I know that last question is like duh!! Trust me I've read all the posts regarding the SAS conversion...I must be stuck on stupid or something...

I'm in NYC, more specifically Brooklyn- there isn't a single shop in NYC that I would trust to fabricate anything and aside from that- they probably wouldn't want to do it anyway. All the shops out here cater to gypsy cabs, dollar vans and cabs...not exactly a reliable source for what I'm about to do...so I'm moving forward with a wish and a dream for this SAS.

 

[Robb]

From my experience with it...........coils are the way to go! And that opinion is not biased at all since I went the opposite way (and by no means complaining!!!). Coil SASs are easier to fab in many regards. The performance of each is VERY debatable and a whole nother thread in itself. BUT, since, at this moment in time, I don't know of any completed coil SASs on SLA Explorers...........the final word remains to be seen. CoryL would be the man to ask soon, since shortly, he will be responsible for both a coil and a leaf SFA conversion on SLAs. He would be the one with the most insight inside the exact pros and cons of each (fab wise).

Robb

 

[taxx]

Originally posted by morrisey0
From my experience with it...........coils are the way to go! And that opinion is not biased at all since I went the opposite way (and by no means complaining!!!). Coil SASs are easier to fab in many regards. The performance of each is VERY debatable and a whole nother thread in itself. BUT, since, at this moment in time, I don't know of any completed coil SASs on SLA Explorers...........the final word remains to be seen. CoryL would be the man to ask soon, since shortly, he will be responsible for both a coil and a leaf SFA conversion on SLAs. He would be the one with the most insight inside the exact pros and cons of each (fab wise).

Robb

You ay want to try a search over at pirate too and see what those guys have to say about it. There are pros and conts to both.

 

[GaSouthern1]

Hey Robb, when are we gonna see some pics of that thing in action or at least some flex pics...i may be missing something and you could have posted some but i just havent seen them...

 

[hvac man]

I would like to say thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread. I have been reading for 2 hrs. now and I just finished the thing.

One thing that was not covered in the thread is what was done with the ABS. Was it converted to rear wheel abs with 91-92 master cylinder?

Also what is the distance off the ground you can lift the front tire before the back one comes off. I am curious because I have pretty good articulation with TTB but want to go with the solid front, but want more articulation. The pic with the fork lift (the one without the flares or molding) looks like only about 32 in. or so.

Also to CoryL: Thanks for always posting your work. I know sometimes that it sucks to show all your secrets for everyone to look at and possibly copy.

Everyone with the solid front my hats off to you, and evryone planning on doing it good luck.

 

[Robb]

GaSouthern1,
Since about the time I got the truck back, I have been in financial hell, so it isn't 100% ready for driving yet. Hopefully, in a couple of weeks.

hvac man, I am just tossing my ABS. I will end up with single lines straight out of the master bypassing the ABS Module alltogether. Can't help ya with any of the articulation measurements yet.

Robb