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Salton Sea is back in the news - Source of lithium for batteries

Rick

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Salton Sea Lithium

They claim that the Salton Sea has enough lithium in the underground brine to create all the batteries the US will need for years to come.
 



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Fix4Dirt

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dang! thats cool! hopefully it works out!
 






CDW6212R

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That sounds like a great new source of valuable minerals. That's very good, but all conversations about EV batteries need to include larger sources of electricity.

We don't have enough electricity right now to power the EV's which already exist, without coal or natural gas. We need much larger sources of electricity from non coal/gas sources, massive quantities, especially if EV numbers go up fast.

Where does the electricity come from? That has to become a common thought involving all EV's, now and forever.
 






94Eddie

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In addition to generating the electricity in sifficient quantity the existing electrical grid will need to be completely gutted and rebuilt from scratch. This will cost an insane amount of money and take a very long time to complete. The current draw to charge an EV quickly is insane. Imagine tens of millions of them charging at the same time while still suplying the electricity needs for all other uses. I am still not sold on EVs being the future of automobiles. There is so much that needs to be done to get just 25% of vehicles in use to EVs. California is getting ready to have massive brownouts this summer and they think it is possible to fuel tens of millions of EVs too anytime soon? The only way to generate the electricity needed is through nuclear energy. Thorium based reactors are the best hope we currently have to supply the massive quantities of electricity to run a national fleet of EVs. This technology is still 10-20 years away at best. Likely much longer.
 






410Fortune

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Exactly

Let’s see power grid already taxed to the point where summer time brown outs are needed

Yet they want to take all small engines and combustion engines away and add them to the grid?

Ass back wards it’s takes fuel to make electricity unless you have hydro power

Glad they found lithium
They keep
Looking for it here in Idaho as well
 






Turdle

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About how many KWH does it take to get to the fully charged status for an EV?

Edit
assuming a 54 kwh battery pack ( f150?) it would take a garage solar system 5.4 hrs to charge the truck to full.

Using a 10kw solar system. The remaining energy goes back to the grid to help prevent brownouts. Get with the program.
 






Olds67

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About how many KWH does it take to get to the fully charged status for an EV?

Edit
assuming a 54 kwh battery pack ( f150?) it would take a garage solar system 5.4 hrs to charge the truck to full.

Using a 10kw solar system. The remaining energy goes back to the grid to help prevent brownouts. Get with the program.
That’s a big ass garage (650square feet). I’d say if you even have your own garage (which many people even have not) it will be more like half size right? So 5kw. So no feeding the grid.
Better you plant it in the desert and save it in hydrogen or efuel. So it’s always available. Which means you could keep on driving the explorer.
Edit:
And by the way. If you dont work the nightshift, your car is usually not in the garage when the sun is shining, so you’d yet another/bigger battery in you house to save the electricity you produced. Which means even more lithium resources and charging loss.
 






Turdle

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That’s a big ass garage (650square feet). I’d say if you even have your own garage (which many people even have not) it will be more like half size right? So 5kw. So no feeding the grid.
Better you plant it in the desert and save it in hydrogen or efuel. So it’s always available. Which means you could keep on driving the explorer.
My garage is only 24 wide 36 ft long stand alone, I've had several 10kw system bids on just the south slope of the roof of it. it's less than 600 sq ft IIRC



I'd say most homes have the roof area to support that size system.
 






Olds67

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My garage is only 24 wide 36 ft long stand alone, I've had several 10kw system bids on just the south slope of the roof of it. it's less than 600 sq ft IIRC



I'd say most homes have the roof area to support that size system.
Yeah sure, the roof of many houses is enough. (Mine actually isn’t. I only produce 5kw) But the appliances in your house are powered by the grid then 🤪
 






Turdle

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Yeah sure, the roof of many houses is enough. (Mine actually isn’t. I only produce 5kw) But the appliances in your house are powered by the grid then 🤪
Does 5kw help your AC electrical cost?
 






Mbrooks420

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That’s a big ass garage (650square feet). I’d say if you even have your own garage (which many people even have not) it will be more like half size right? So 5kw. So no feeding the grid.
Better you plant it in the desert and save it in hydrogen or efuel. So it’s always available. Which means you could keep on driving the explorer.
Edit:
And by the way. If you dont work the nightshift, your car is usually not in the garage when the sun is shining, so you’d yet another/bigger battery in you house to save the electricity you produced. Which means even more lithium resources and charging loss
I’ll take it, gladly, over the impossibility of producing my own gasoline.

If you worked during the day, you aren’t home. You’re powering the grid. At night you pull from the grid for your power. They’d cancel out, as long as you had the capacity.

Unless you live in a tiny shack you almost certainly could produce more than 5k.

My garage is over 650 sq ft of roof, and it’s barely big enough for two cars. Also, there’s no reason they have to go on the roof. I’d trade a good portion of yard for energy independence.
 






Olds67

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Does 5kw help your AC electrical cost?
No AC in Germany 😃 it’s an AC-free ventilation system. It uses the heat available during the day and and heats water,produces electricity. You get used to it, but still if you dont close the curtains from the south windows during the day in summer you’ll sweat your ass of.
So from April to September i dont use electricity from the grid.
 






94Eddie

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That’s a big ass garage (650square feet). I’d say if you even have your own garage (which many people even have not) it will be more like half size right? So 5kw. So no feeding the grid.
Better you plant it in the desert and save it in hydrogen or efuel. So it’s always available. Which means you could keep on driving the explorer.
Edit:
And by the way. If you dont work the nightshift, your car is usually not in the garage when the sun is shining, so you’d yet another/bigger battery in you house to save the electricity you produced. Which means even more lithium resources and charging loss.
Solar charging EVs is mostly a pipe dream in practical terms. Where I live the sun does not shine every day and recently it rained and/or was cloudy for an entire week. The eastern half of the US is not optimal for solar. The push for EVs is mostly about politics, control of people and gouging those with disposable cash to hand over their money so they feel good about themselves and/or have bragging rights. EVs ARE NOT GREEN! They won't be green for a very long time, if ever. I won't even get into the massive cost of "going green." Basically, we are all being fed a line of BS on going green, in general, and with EVs specifically.
 












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The entire subject should be about increasing production of electricity.

It doesn't matter how good the batteries are, or how many electric vehicles are being produced, or the actual grid, or costs, if we cannot make more electricity. It isn't about making small quantities more. If the need for EV's double our requirements, then the coal and natural gas plants will be the first to push their limits to make more energy.

If our needs triple, or more, how the hell do you expect enough people to invest money(that they cannot afford due to massive inflation), into big solar farms at their homes? The point it simple, everything but electricity production is trivial at this point, and it will stay that way for many years to come.

We need more effort put into nuclear plants, that's the best way to push the capacity enough. That will take many many years, maybe decades depending on the technology, and the opposition to more nuclear plants. Not in my back yard, that's the group of people who will keep us on coal and natural gas for a long time.
 






94Eddie

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I’ll take it, gladly, over the impossibility of producing my own gasoline.

If you worked during the day, you aren’t home. You’re powering the grid. At night you pull from the grid for your power. They’d cancel out, as long as you had the capacity.

Unless you live in a tiny shack you almost certainly could produce more than 5k.

My garage is over 650 sq ft of roof, and it’s barely big enough for two cars. Also, there’s no reason they have to go on the roof. I’d trade a good portion of yard for energy independence.
The problem with thermal based power generation is the plants can't be throttled up and down to follow demand cycles over the course of a day. They have to basically be run at all times to meet the peak demands during a full day. Throttling them down takes too long to throttle them up to meet the next peak demand period. Hydro power is about the only electric generation source that can ramp up and down quickly but there are limited opportunities to develop these resources. While the excess solar is feeding the grid the plants are still running at the same output to meet demand as if this influx of power wasn't there. In addition to the energy use spikes that are easy to predict the plants also have to cover for the unpredictable ones like rain, cloudy weather etc.
 






Olds67

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This may sound a bit weird: World Peace.

It’s the only way, how we could use every world region’s advantages (heat,wind etc.) to produce massive amounts of electricity, hydrogen and efuel and distribute it around the world in a fair manner.
But not as long as we let patriarchies fuel decade-to-century old conflicts and let immoral conclaves make money with it.

Sorry for this hippy post, but it’s my actual point of view.
 






410Fortune

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My home and shop is off the grid completely

I have lots of solar panels and lots of batteries

10,000 watts of solar panels will only
Make 10,000 watts sometimes, during perfect conditions, with clean panels, aimed properly

Hydro and wind can help, hydro is the best option if you can get the water, water power happens 24/7

Some places get more sun than others, for them solar might be the answer.

I would challenge all of you to take uour homes off the grid, even just for testing. There are 6 of us here and a truck shop, this is a modern home with many flatscreens iPads, PS5’s, pellet stoves, two kitchens, etc etc. now try to power everything from the sun and your batteries. Good luck!! After you sort that out now try to add a couple of electric cars

You will be needing additional power from fuel, water, air… solar and batteries just are not there yet. I have 8 lithium batteries they were $900 each and will last about 10 years. I also have 16 agm batteries that will last 10-15 years, they were $300 each. Lithium is still very expensive…. Solar panels are coming along… but to think you will not need fuel with solar, well you had better live under full sun 12 months a year. The up front costs are huge, batteries are very $$$$$, solar panels are way up right now, the wires are all copper which is also very $$$$… going off the grid requires a huge up front cost and then maintenance

We use a military tactical quiet turbo diesel 3 phase 15,000 kw gen set to produce power, it can power a small village in the desert or in the arctic, it is very efficient, quiet and reliable. However diesel is the most expensive fuel…. Of course! Propane is cheap but it takes 5 times as much. Diesel is so heavily taxed even the road tax free stuff is more expensive then premium, (unleaded gasoline would take 3 times as many gallons to make the same power)
Diesel is still our best option for generating power here at the homestead until I can build a dam and get enough water pressure to run a hydro generator. It’s a sad state of affairs really, diesel is easier to refine it should be much cheaper. I can also run on bio fuels and if needed we can create our own diesel… practical? Not really, but possible.


Go for it, take your home off the grid, it is becoming more and more popular and more and more possible. Heck even just take part of your home off the grid, maybe your man cave or just the computers.. install a 12v solar powered system just for charging devices. See what it takes in solar and batteries just to keep 6 smart phones, some
Cordless tools and a couple of iPads charged up… those
Little lithium batteries are everywhere now days they suck a lot of juice you will be charging them with fuel one way or the other
 






429CJ-3X2

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Where I live the sun does not shine every day and recently it rained and/or was cloudy for an entire week.
Here in Iowa, we had an ice storm at Halloween 1992. We didn't have a sunny day, or hour, until the last day of March or 1st of April. We went to Tulsa that weekend and ran into gorgeous sunny weather just into Missouri. Met a couple from Ohio who said they had just 3 or 4 sunny days in that same period. That's extreme, and extremely unusual, but this spring hasn't been great for solar power, either. And the wind has blown so hard so often since March that they probably had to shut down the wind turbines at times. Wind turbines can't produce power when there's no wind, or when wind speed is above a certain level.
 



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BKennedy

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The cool part about mining the Salton Sea is they are saying they can use the geothermal in the area to produce all the power they would need for the operation. The lithium will be mined by drilling down to the deposits below the sea, so no strip mining, which is the most common way to get lithium from the ground. This is all based upon new extraction methods.



As far as solar panels for generating electricity, it's a negative gain. Production of the panels uses more power than they will ever produce. The only way to make it pay is to have the panels manufactured in a place where electricity is cheaper, like China. All the people who talk about electric clean energy are dreaming because the technology isn't there yet.

The contractor who is going to build my Arizona house talked me out of solar. I was going to do it, but electricity is so much cheaper there than in San Diego there is currently no point. The cost of the solar install would take 30 years to even out there. A propane generator is much cheaper for the occasional outage if one is worried about that. The only reason to go solar there would be so that if the world power grids fail, I could sit up there with the lights on and watch the world burn.
 






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