SCT X4 And A 2000 Mountaineer

[MAS Tequila]

I've been using 'boxed' SCT tunes from an X4 for an Explorer for over a year on my 2000 Mountaineer.

Just recently I tried to put it back to the stock tune while looking for a problem, an O2 sensor was bad.

All of the codes cleared except for the 0602 programming error code.

I called SCT yesterday and spoke with someone on their tech support line who acted like I was bothering him by calling.

He proceeded to tell me that the Explorer X4 was incompatible with the Mountaineer, and I need to buy another tuner and custom tunes.

Everything is working fine, and always has, except for that 0602 code.

I'm running pretty much stock, except for no rear cats and a Flowmaster 40 series emptying through the stock tail pipe.

Any thoughts?

Torrie from Unleashed said that he can take care of it for me if I do need to buy a couple of custom tunes.

MT

 

[boominXplorer]

Custom tunes are the way to go, it's one of those you pay for what you get. Dyno tunes will be way more accurate than email tunes but availability and cost usually differ dramatically.

Since you have a 00 v8, I bet you have an EQE3 pcm. I have ran an x3 tuner on that pcm before without issues.

 

[Centaurus5.0]

I agree boomin.

Two stories:

I had a X3 on a 98 5.0 and used the canned tune with shift setting on hardest and couldn't tell the difference.

Had a 2000 5.0 with the EQE3 pcm that was fried. Scooped a new one from the pick-n-pull and took it to the dealer. Charged $125 to reprogram the new pcm and a new rfid key cut. I thought that was reasonable.


You could call the Ford dealer and see how much they'd charge to set it to factory with all updates or find a mustang shop and have them point you to an experienced blue oval dyno tuner.

 

[Centaurus5.0]

I'm running pretty much stock, except for no rear cats and a Flowmaster 40 series emptying through the stock tail pipe.

Any thoughts?

Torrie from Unleashed said that he can take care of it for me if I do need to buy a couple of custom tunes.

MT

A couple custom tunes for a bone stock explorer? Huh?

 

[CDW6212R]

Ditto, I'd restore the original tune and see if that eliminates the code. I'd do more to it before spending money on a custom tune. The stock exhaust is the worst mess and restrictive at every point along it, end to end. Do what you can to work on the worst bottlenecks. Then when you like what you've done, get a tune to get the most out of the combination.

I think splitting the rear exhaust from a single to dual mufflers, will help the most(next to doing the manifolds). You will know you have made improvements(with no tune), if the power seems off or lazy. That means it's running lean and needs more fuel(the tune).

No V8 Mustang since the 70's has had less than dual 2.25" paths end to end. Those pitiful mid 70's 302's had less than 150hp, thus the single muffler and tail pipe. These are 230hp engines that only make 200hp, or less, because of the horrendous exhaust. It isn't just the two manifolds, the cats are big restrictions, the single muffler is worse than the cats, and the one tail pipe is half of a Mustang airflow. Open up the rear half of the exhaust, then do the cats if you can, with your emission laws. The manifolds are just bad, and the $700 stuff is just small, not even adequate. 1.5" primaries belong on a 150hp engine, not on any 200HP or more V8.

 

[Centaurus5.0]

I'd agree with going with a dual catback after installing a cam and torque converter. Stock cam falls off at 4500rpm and the meat of the gains you'd get from switching to duals would be on the top end 4,000-6,000rpm range.

A single 2.5" would be adequate for a stocker but I'd never deny cool points to a guy with duals on an Explorer, stock or not.

 

[CDW6212R]

I hate to have to say it, but that's what is the consensus opinion about the exhaust of any SUV, truck etc. People think for some unknown illogical reason that a truck etc, needs a smaller exhaust than any car, or any example of existing common sports car, stock cars, stock performance cars, of any kind.

The 1993-1995 Mustang Cobra had in bone stock form, a dual 2.25" exhaust, end to end, and those have virtually the exact same engine as the 96-01 Explorer 302's. The biggest difference internally is the cam, and that isn't that much different.

The bone stock 302 HO's have the 302 HO cam, with smaller E7 heads and smaller HO intake. Those run out of breath at 4500rpm, I've owned three of them. The Explorer 302's I've been in will hit 5000rpm with less trouble than the HO engine hits 4500. The point is that all of the OEM roller cams(all three of them(302 HO, 302 Cobra, truck roller 302); they are not a restriction to rpm. They are amazing cams compared to all OEM non roller cams ever made.

The stock Explorer 302 is basically a Cobra 302(93-95), which were about 235rwhp(manual transmission). Where is all of that missing power in the Explorer? Two major things are the difference, and the cam isn't one of them. The exhaust is horrendous, that's easily 25hp there. The second thing is the sharp inlet elbow at the TB, the EGR elbow. That thing is 65mm at best, and too sharp, big restriction versus a straight 75mm path. Most people won't fabricate that in a larger size to gain 10hp, but it's available. The torque converter in the Explorer is far better than the TC in the AOD's I've had, probably similar to the Mustang AOD cars had. They aren't bad TC's, OEM street type yes, not the best for racing of course, but not bad.

Airflow is power, period, for all applications. Every restriction to airflow kills power, it doesn't matter if it's a truck or anything else people mention in BS. There is too much BS posted on the internet about what parts can create what power or rpm. Stop listening to unknown random people telling you such and such cannot support blah blah power, or such and such power doesn't need blah blah parts.

Sorry for the rant. The short version is simple; two mufflers have half the restriction of one muffler. Two tail pipes have half the restriction of one tail pipe. The Explorer has double the restriction from the single muffler and tail pipe.

 

[Centaurus5.0]

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[CDW6212R]

Stop reading the descriptions of cams, those are wrong. The Cobra cam is not a 5800rpm cam, and the truck cam is not a 4800rpm cam. Throw out the specs, what matters is how they actually function in a real application. People have raced successfully with the HO cam(6500rpm+), which by the "book" is not a big cam at all, I'm sure there's a common description of its rpm limits. That is also wrong.

The Explorer 302 easily runs to and makes good power at 5000rpm, the exhaust is limiting power from about 2000rpm up. Put the Explorer 302 into a 93-95 Mustang Cobra, no changes, and it'll run well to 5500rpm(because of the better exhaust). That's how those Cobra's ran well to such rpm's, not due to the "big" cam, but the far far better exhaust. If you choke off the exhaust in a 93-95 Mustang with the Explorer manifolds, one muffler, and one tail pipe, it'll be wheezing at 5800rpm, and down 25hp+ at the high end curve peak.

The cam is not the big problem, it's very very minor. The TC is also minor. If you want a slipping TC, and you like that, go for it. I want the compromise between great street manners, and good take off. But to gain a bunch from the TC, that will sacrifice a bunch of normal low throttle driveability.

Changing the TC is big expensive job, why do that for minor gains(not a racing TC), when anyone can easily open up the exhaust a ton depending on how much you'll choose to go, and then do a tune to reap the benefits.

I know this is a lot of talk. I try to limit how much or often I touch on the subject. I had to when what I posted was dismissed as crap, and the typical "tiny exhaust is good" BS was repeated as the correct solution. The internet is full of BS, and not enough people speak up to correct it.

I will get to my own 302 Explorer this year, and the exhaust is 2nd or 3rd on my to do list. I will tune the truck, test it fully, then do the mufflers and back, tune it, test it, do the cat pipes, tune it, test it, and then begin on the manifolds. When I finally tune it again, and test it, there will be big gains, and that's on a bone stock engine. No cam change, TC change, TB, MAF, those come much later. Regards,

 

[Centaurus5.0]

You're a funny man Don! Don't go changing!

Yes, it was a lot of talk as you said, too much so to go point by point with you over for the next 5 pages of this thread.

I think we've both said our peace.

Hope your project works out for you.

 

[CDW6212R]

Ditto, I want everyone to succeed with their projects. I'm not a hater, I just want to help. Night,

 

[Centaurus5.0]

@MAS Tequila

Just remembered: Ford charges 1 hour shop time to reprogram the PCM, so about $70 bucks.

 

[Centaurus5.0]

Any air cleaner change would be an improvement, at all RPM's. Any muffler would be an improvement, but don't go beyond about one 2.5" tailpipe, or you will lose bottom end.

You are truly priceless Don!

 

[boominXplorer]

Mustang and Explorers are almost considered apples to oranges as they are 2 completely different vehicles that share the same block at one time.

I will say in my old mountaineer (5.0 awd, FMS headers, full 2.5 exhaust, intake, chip ect) I had best results at the track shifting at 4700 rpm. Even when I had a 100 shot on it 4700 got me the best et.

The fact it's 1500 lbs heavier is the main downfall, it needs torque to get it moving and there's not enough of torque or hp above 4700 rpm to benefit going there.

 

[Centaurus5.0]

Can I ask what what kind of times you were getting out of your Ex boomin? Gears?

 

[boominXplorer]

Best na et was 10.2 in 1/8th. Best on 100 shot was 9.01 at 75 mph in 1/8th. Was running 235/65r15 tires (I think, they were smaller than the stock 235/75 i know) with 3.73 gears and had a consistent 1.6 sec 60 ft time.

I ran my old mounty down the track an easy 100x with at least half of them on spray. Had a blast in that truck. Had a ton on 9.0 runs but could never get into the 8s. Mind you all I had was "bolt ons" and all stock valvetrain.

 

[Centaurus5.0]

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[CDW6212R]

Any air cleaner change would be an improvement, at all RPM's. Any muffler would be an improvement, but don't go beyond about one 2.5" tailpipe, or you will lose bottom end.

The Explorer exhaust manifolds are probably the worst ever made for any vehicle. Anything would be an improvement. The only two other choices both cost about double what they should cost, and they are a small improvement.

A computer chip(flasher) would help also, but for towing, add another cooler, and a shift kit. Good luck,

You are truly priceless Don!


So, I'm bored now and have decided to roll my sleeves up and get to the bottom of what your talking about....

-By your rationale, Ford put 24lbs injectors in the Cobra because of all the power the dual exhaust is making and the cam had little to nothing to do with it?

-My stock 5.0 Mustangs always ran best at the track when I shifted at 5000-5200rpm. Out of breath @4500rpm?

-I recommended a single 2.5 because he already had a flowmasters and it would have been the easiest cheapest (and the only off-the-shelf) upgrade so therefore I said "adequate". So you translated that suggestion as a slap in the face to everything you know about 5.0's?


BTW, how are you editing your posts without it saying "Last edited:"? I missed the part you added on why you got worked up...

Not cool, quote me from another thread, not the whole quote, and I didn't clarify what I meant given how it's being used here.

That thread was about losing power with big changes, which does happen when the computer is not tuned/adjusted for it. I didn't state that because the question was
"does new intake/headers/exhaust = less low end torque?"

You left off the last paragraph of my post, which points to tuning the computer.

 

[Centaurus5.0]

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[Centaurus5.0]

Ditto, I want everyone to succeed with their projects. I'm not a hater, I just want to help. Night,

Are you sure you're not?