Serpentine Belt Sizing

[jlrohio]

Today I went ahead and was going to change my Tensioner Pulley, Idler pulley, and belt due to some noise from the belt.
Figured it was time. I don't know if I've ever changed these in my 24 years of owning this. I think I changed the belt at some point??

Anyway, I purchased a Goodyear Serpentine Belt off of Amazon.

Today, after taking the old one off and putting it up to the new Goodyear belt, I noted it was a little bit shorter than the old one. Oh well, I just chalked it up to stretching (like belts used to do).

But, I could NOT get the belt to go the final 1 inch over the idler pulley when putting it on. I was pushing that Tensioner as far as it would go but it was not enough to allow the belt to go over the idler pulley. I triple checked my belt routing according to the sticker on the engine bay. I then put the old one back on and it went on just fine...just had to push the tensioner down a little and that was enough to slip right on over the idler pulley.

Thinking, Ok, I must have gotten the wrong size from Amazon/Goodyear...I went to order another one...but I noted some reviews from other Explorer/Ranger owners that it did not fit their vehicles. I also noted some of the same comments in the review for the Gates Belts.

Is there a problem with Belt sizing lately on our generation of Explorers? Was just thinking of ordering a bunch of belts from Amazon...and just going with whatever fits...and returning the rest. I did some searching but didn't really see any others complaining of this same issue with sizing...unless it was obvious they had routed wrong.

Also, what this new thing to expand the website EVERYTIME I want to scroll down....that then puts me back to the top...that's annoying AF!!!

 

[jlrohio]

I think I just figured it out...

Part Goodyears' problem and part Amazon's problem.

The Amazon Part Verifier/Checker, does NOT verify if your vehicle is SOHC or OHV engine.
I have an OHV 4.0L engine in my Explorer.

From Advance Auto and Auto Zone's website, I found that following sizes for the belts for our vehicles:

OHV Engine - 88.25"
SOHC Engine - 86.5"

Why the SOHC engine serpentine belt is 2.25 inches shorter??? I dunno!

Here's the correct part # on the Goodyear belt for the OHV engine - Goodyear Belt - 1060883 ( details say it only fits a 1997 OHV!! )

Yet, Amazon says this belt does not fit my Explorer!

I think I'll just go with this Continental Belt - at least they listed a size!

 

[J_C]

^ Yes I started a topic about that Expand button, https://www.explorerforum.com/forums/threads/expand-to-show-full-article.503797/#post-4003645

I have only replaced the belt on my '98 SOHC once (that I recall), and it fit fine. It was a Dayco 5060868 which is supposedly 86.8" long (last 3 digits of part # indicate length), or an outside circumference of 87.4". I did not actually measure it. Dayco has switched up their part #'s so now that part # is their lower end and the higher end with the aramid fibers like mine, is now 5060865.

Edit: Seems that you solved this, if the OHV has a longer 88.3" belt and they sent the wrong one for the SOHC.

 

[EB4X]

You want more "FUN" and parts confusion.....get a 1995 like me...it's endless.....some of my parts I have to reference to a 1st gen '94....others I order as for a '96...because a '95 is not even listed ! ! ! but a '94 and then '96 option ARE!

 

[Motorhogman]

Ran into something similar with my 2000 Sport SOHC. Depends on the mfg date for the tensioner assembly. Mine has a production date of 9/99. NAPA dealer had one in stock for a 2000 Sport. Not even close. A little research showed a change in the middle of the production run. I was on a trip from the Boston area to SC. It let go in VA. They got me the right one within an hour and let me change it in front of their store. They had a full service shop there. Yes. I carry tools every where I go.. Love my NAPA dealers.

 

[jlrohio]

So, I changed things up again this morning while doing some more research into the the differences in the length.
One strange thing I came across, that I did not think about, was that there is a belt for Explorers withOUT A/C. I've never heard of not having an A/C in one of these...but I guess it could be a thing...or someone removed the A/C from their vehicle.

Anyway, back at my research, I came across Advance Auto selling a Dayco Serpentine Belt Kit (Serpentine Belt, Pulley and Tensioner) for $35.60 + shipping. Factor in a Labor Day discount code for 20% off and some Gift cards I had lying around and this was a no-brainer. Everything else is going back to Amazon and I'll just go with this Dayco setup for now.. I verified the length of the belt (88.25") and should fit. Heck, just the Belt itself at Advance Auto costs $43. Thanks to @J_C for letting me know the size was in the part #.

In the end...I guess this initial screwup in the sizes was a learning experience that I hope others may find useful in the future and I was able to save a few bucks in process over buying all of these parts separately.

 

[joney]

Today I went ahead and was going to change my Tensioner Pulley, Idler pulley, and belt due to some noise from the belt.
Figured it was time. I don't know if I've ever changed these in my 24 years of owning this. I think I changed the belt at some point??

Anyway, I purchased a Goodyear Serpentine Belt off of Amazon.

Today, after taking the old one off and putting it up to the new Goodyear belt, I noted it was a little bit shorter than the old one. Oh well, I just chalked it up to stretching (like belts used to do).

But, I could NOT get the belt to go the final 1 inch over the idler pulley when putting it on. I was pushing that Tensioner as far as it would go but it was not enough to allow the belt to go over the idler pulley. I triple checked my belt routing according to the sticker on the engine bay. I then put the old one back on and it went on just fine...just had to push the tensioner down a little and that was enough to slip right on over the idler pulley.

Thinking, Ok, I must have gotten the wrong size from Amazon/Goodyear...I went to order another one...but I noted some reviews from other Explorer/Ranger owners that it did not fit their vehicles. I also noted some of the same comments in the review for the Gates Belts.

Is there a problem with Belt sizing lately on our generation of Explorers? Was just thinking of ordering a bunch of belts from Amazon...and just going with whatever fits...and returning the rest. I did some searching but didn't really see any others complaining of this same issue with sizing...unless it was obvious they had routed wrong.

Also, what this new thing to expand the website EVERYTIME I want to scroll down....that then puts me back to the top...that's annoying AF!!!

Funny you mentioned that, I have to do the same job on my Ex - the Motorcraft belt I bought, is actually longer than the unknown brand belt that's on it now! Idler that was on it, obvious doesn't turn smoothly. Changing the tensioner idler and belt cause mechanic told me (last year!) it was the source of rattling I have, and the belt was obviously running at an angle not straight. So a bit unsure. Any advice?

 

[J_C]

^ If the belt has too much give, and is the right length, the tensioner spring is weak/bad. With the belt off, check the tensioner and idler pulleys for wobble or non-smooth rotation to indicate which bearings are bad.

 

[jlrohio]

Funny you mentioned that, I have to do the same job on my Ex - the Motorcraft belt I bought, is actually longer than the unknown brand belt that's on it now! Idler that was on it, obvious doesn't turn smoothly. Changing the tensioner idler and belt cause mechanic told me (last year!) it was the source of rattling I have, and the belt was obviously running at an angle not straight. So a bit unsure. Any advice?

Sounds as if I have the shorter belt you need - I'll be sending that shorter belt back to Amazon!

You have an SOHC, so that package deal from Advance Auto that I posted above would not work for you. I looked and it does not appear there is a All-in-One Belt kit for the SOHC...at least what I could see. But your own research may yield different results. (Advance Auto has a 20% off code this weekend - Code LABORDAY)

First, look at Chris Fix's video's on YouTube about determining what may or may not be the issue with your belt system (Tensioner, bad pulley bearing somewhere on the Alternator/AC/Power Steering (not likely but possible)). Take off the belt and see if there is movement in either the tensioner or the idler pulley. If there is any movement in those two, that seems a little much, go ahead and change them.



Advance Auto or AutoZone has the Serpentine Belt tool that makes pulling the tensioner out of the way much easier - of course, a simple 3/8 inch ratchet works fine too.

The procedure is rather simple overall.

 

[joney]

Sounds as if I have the shorter belt you need - I'll be sending that shorter belt back to Amazon!

You have an SOHC, so that package deal from Advance Auto that I posted above would not work for you. I looked and it does not appear there is a All-in-One Belt kit for the SOHC...at least what I could see. But your own research may yield different results. (Advance Auto has a 20% off code this weekend - Code LABORDAY)

First, look at Chris Fix's video's on YouTube about determining what may or may not be the issue with your belt system (Tensioner, bad pulley bearing somewhere on the Alternator/AC/Power Steering (not likely but possible)). Take off the belt and see if there is movement in either the tensioner or the idler pulley. If there is any movement in those two, that seems a little much, go ahead and change them.



Advance Auto or AutoZone has the Serpentine Belt tool that makes pulling the tensioner out of the way much easier - of course, a simple 3/8 inch ratchet works fine too.

The procedure is rather simple overall.

It is easier with that tool = long flat bar with a square on the end, would be too tight otherwise. Using the Motorcraft belt, new Dayco idler pulley and new tensioner. Having a helluva time getting the belt back on!

 

[jlrohio]

... Having a helluva time getting the belt back on!

Start by making a loop, at the bottom of the belt and going around the crankshaft first.

Follow your belt diagram, if it is still there on your engine area where the hood latches.

You have an SOHC - there are belt diagrams on here somewhere.


Here's the guy in the video explaining his procedure for putting the belt on...but again, this is a OHV engine vice SOHC (YMMV).

 

[Mr. Alligator]

I found that using a length of pipe slipped over your 3/8 inch ratchet, like a breaker bar, gives you helpful leverage and the tool length to reach the tensioner from up top. You might even be able to find something to tie the pipe off to so that tension can be maintained until the belt is completely in position.

If the belt just will not quite fit on, re-check the belt routing. As mentioned, you might have a routing diagram pasted in your engine bay. Maybe on your radiator core support. Note that if the flat belt backing is designed to go around something, the mating surface will be flat; if the grooved belt surface is designed to mate with something, the mating surface will be grooved like the grooved belt. So make sure that the flat belt surface does NOT ride on grooves, and the grooved belt surface does NOT ride on a smooth surface. There are easy mistakes you can make, but the Ford engineers have designed the belt not to fit if it is not properly routed.

Good luck.

 

[joney]

I found that using a length of pipe slipped over your 3/8 inch ratchet, like a breaker bar, gives you helpful leverage and the tool length to reach the tensioner from up top. You might even be able to find something to tie the pipe off to so that tension can be maintained until the belt is completely in position.

If the belt just will not quite fit on, re-check the belt routing. As mentioned, you might have a routing diagram pasted in your engine bay. Maybe on your radiator core support. Note that if the flat belt backing is designed to go around something, the mating surface will be flat; if the grooved belt surface is designed to mate with something, the mating surface will be grooved like the grooved belt. So make sure that the flat belt surface does NOT ride on grooves, and the grooved belt surface does NOT ride on a smooth surface. There are easy mistakes you can make, but the Ford engineers have designed the belt not to fit if it is not properly routed.

Good luck.

Appreciate all the advice! Routing is good, the diagram is handy! Will be double checking that the Motorcraft belt I have is indeed the right one...But it's been complicated by the fact that to the L of the tensioner and above it, are 2 hoses with hard sections that the tool runs into. I'm guessing the new tensioner gives more tension than the old one it replaces. I read that if the installed belt can be twisted 90 degrees it's not too tight. Do any of you put a new belt in hot water to make it more flexible first? This new one is rather stiff. BTW, I noticed the shaft of the water pump is able to go forward and back (in and out) about 1/4" to 3/8". Is this normal?

 

[J_C]

I might have used a breaker bar to get more leverage, but otherwise don't recall any trouble, did not put the belt in hot water. However, I did not replace my tensioner at the time as it seemed fine.

 

[Motorhogman]

I've never seen a water pump shaft with any play at all .. Usually means the impeller has moved. Surprised the seal isn't leaking.

 

[joney]

I've never seen a water pump shaft with any play at all .. Usually means the impeller has moved. Surprised the seal isn't leaking.

Thanks for the input! By any chance, can a water pump rattle when it gets worn? I'm beginning to wonder about what the mechanic told me last year, was the source of the rattle (sounds rather like a loose heat shield does, but under the hood.)

 

[J_C]

If the water pump bearing is that worn out, it's "highly likely" it would be dumping out coolant fast enough to notice.

Then again, as Motorhogman stated, I don't think it's supposed to have that play in it either.

You can run the engine a short while with the belt off (just not long enough to drain the battery w/o the alternator running) to see if the rattle continues. If it does, then it's not something belt-driven. Either way, I'd be seriously considering replacing the water pump. It might be available at a local auto parts store for you to examine the play, even if you intend to buy it somewhere else that charges less.

 

[Pete Deering]

Thanks for the input! By any chance, can a water pump rattle when it gets worn? I'm beginning to wonder about what the mechanic told me last year, was the source of the rattle (sounds rather like a loose heat shield does, but under the hood.)

Yes , the water pump can rattle. its the metal impeller hitting the block. The water pump bearing is bad. The pump should not any play in it.

 

[DannyW]

You want more "FUN" and parts confusion.....get a 1995 like me...it's endless.....some of my parts I have to reference to a 1st gen '94....others I order as for a '96...because a '95 is not even listed ! ! ! but a '94 and then '96 option ARE!

I feel your pain brother!

 

[Motorhogman]

Thanks for the input! By any chance, can a water pump rattle when it gets worn? I'm beginning to wonder about what the mechanic told me last year, was the source of the rattle (sounds rather like a loose heat shield does, but under the hood.)

They can rattle like a tin can full of marbles.. If that shaft has as much end play as you say two things can happen, it will not move water through the system properly, There is a spec for clearance between the impeller and the back of the housing, to big of a gap and it won't push coolant properly. Or worst case scenario you'll end up with the fan eating your radiator. I'm really surprised the seal isn't leaking.