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Setting Camber/Caster After Torison Twist?

duke16

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I just did my shackles/TT lift and gained maybe an 1 inch. After which, I went to get an alignment. They told me that because I had lifted it, they would only be able to adjust the toe. And that the camber/caster acceptable ranges that their machine uses would no longer be valid. Is this true? If so, how would I calculate the correct camber/caster with an extra 1 inch from the torsion bars?
 



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duke16

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You'll need to obtain and install a set of camber adjuster shims-

MOOG Part # K80065
you'll need a kit for each side.

Yea, those are installed. But the machine they use to do the alignment has a range that is acceptable for camber and caster. But those ranges are apparently based of stock height. So with the .. 1 inch .. lift, they said that they can't go by those ranges anymore. Is that true? If so, how would I calculate new ranges based on the new height?
 






Turdle

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My recommendation is to take it to an alignment shop which has experience with trucks, and not a "schooled by computer" kid--

You need a guy who can figure it out for himself and not rely on computer prompts.
A good alignment tech should be able to adjust the angles to achieve good handling and tire wear. First the wheel should be centered-toe should be aligned, and centered to a centered wheel. Then the ride height is adjusted to level the frame. Try , if possible to have this accomplished before you arrive
Now, what is needed is an acceptable caster on the driver side. Be careful here-as the camber adjusters will move the "triangulation" point and throw the caster off. About 2-3 degrees of caster will help hold the vehicle in a straight line real good.

-adjust the caster on the passenger side to match-via the 2 piece upper control arm.

then adjust the camber to achieve a 0 degree negative or positive camber on both sides, or as close to this as possible. A bit of positive camber is a good thing-
since it is lifted-you'll probably be letting the shims"in" a bit to lessen the camber angle-(I would imagine it is about 8-10 degrees positive now-this is what they are referring to. Lowering the front puts the angles to the other, or negative extreme making the front tires do this / \ when viewed from the front. Lifting makes the front tires do this \ / , or too far positive.


A recheck of caster after that, which will require a recheck of the camber if it is adjusted-
keep in mind-if the rear of the driver side upper control arm is moved in using the camber adjuster, while leaving the front adjuster in place,-you have INCREASED the caster angle by pulling the upper ball joint REARWARD.
Understand?

It will take more wrenching, and he should ignore EVERY suggestion and prompt the computer is telling him, going purely on values displayed.

A good alignment tech knows good angles--
 






duke16

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Could I not have the same guys do this though? Reason being is because I'm paid up for a year. If I just tell them I want camber as close to 0 as possible and caster around 3 degrees would that be fine?

I'm not really understanding why they said their specs wouldn't work. If I just give them the numbers I want, it shouldn't make a difference should it? I can't imagine a 1 inch lift messing up their specified ranges when I know exactly the numbers I want.

The camber is actually only -0.8 degrees / -0.4 degrees right now. The 1 inch lift really didn't change it much at all. But the caster is 4.3 / 3.7 degrees... so that may be a little high. Also, you said a little positive camber is a good thing... shouldn't that be negative camber is a good thing? Negative helps stability while cornering.
 






Cozmik

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Subscribing. Same problem when I took my Ex in this morning for an alignment. They want $80 for the kit and 4 hours labour for the alignment. Seems a little steep to me. And I didn't do the TT.
 






duke16

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Subscribing. Same problem when I took my Ex in this morning for an alignment. They want $80 for the kit and 4 hours labour for the alignment. Seems a little steep to me. And I didn't do the TT.

Not really the same problem. I can adjust my camber/caster fine, it's just the alignment place was telling me they couldn't do it because their machine wouldn't tell them the correct values because of the lift.

You can install the camber/caster adjustments bolts yourself, it's not terribly hard. $80 for parts is ludicrous, they must be including more then just the 4 bolts. Or perhaps there's something different on Explorer Sports.... Look on http://www.rockauto.com.
 






Cozmik

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Thanks for the link. I called a few other places and they said an hour or 2 to install the kit and adjust everything. I guess I should just do it. Its been an expensive week already though. Both front hubs just got replaced and I just installed 4 new Dick Cepek Mud Country's. That took care of Sat and Sun. Don't really want to chew those up because of bad alignment.
 






gijoecam

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Just don't tell them you lifted it... A torsion twist does not constitute a lift. They should still be able to get the angles all well within the specified numbers. I've had mine done twice since doing the TT on my Ex and not had an issue either time. After doing my F-150 (essentially a super-sized Explorer suspension), the numbers were still within the OEM specs without touching a thing. (the tires are proof... 65,000 miles on the originals and easily 40k left to go if they don't dry-rot first)

An inch change in ride height isn't going to be enough for them to not be able to align it. If that's what they're telling you, run, don't walk, to another alignment shop. They're simply trying to sell you crap you don't need in the hopes you'll be gullible enough to go for it. Heck, the suspension will droop an inch if I get into it... So if they align it on the rack, is my getting into it going to throw the alignment off?

-Joe
 






Cozmik

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Thats the funny part, I did the TT, the front was too high, so I undid it right back to the 15.5" frame to ground it was before I did anything. My shackles brought the rear end up so the truck sits almost level now. (rear is slighty higher) Other than that, the only suspension work I've done is bolt in 4 Rancho RS5000's. I think he saw the Rancho's and the 32" Dick Cepeks and figured he could make some money by selling me stuff I didn't need.

You speak wisely gijoecam!!
 






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