small parts found in pan -pre VB 5R55E work)

[BillJ]

small parts found in pan (pre VB 5R55E work)

Can anybody help identify the parts I found in the Tranny pan before I did the VB (5R55E) rebuild on a 99 Explorer (4WD, SOHC).

I found 3-4 aluminum small pucks (3.49mm in diameter by 1.85mm in width) and also a small steel one turn spring (4.95mm in diameter).

I rebuilt the VB due to a harsh shift around 30MPH with an occasional flashing OD light. OBD did not show any MIL codes. After the rebuild the problem is about the same and I am wondering if the small parts found in the pan may point to the problem?

Thanks to Glacier, Big_billy, Kaiser and others for the posts that gave me confidence to attempt the rebuild. You guys did a great job!

Thanks

 

[toy720]

Ok i dont want to make this sound dumb but are you sure the pucks were not the magnets that stick to the bottom of the pan. also there is a spring that is in the case that acts as a screen for trash i remember seeing this on the forum somewhere. if the pucks are not the magnets the only other thing i can think of is the pucks that are in the vb itself.(but not likely) do you have a way to post pictures aluminum pucks dont sound like magnets now you have me curious.

 

[BillJ]

The small pucks were not attracted to a magnet (the spring was). There was a flat metal strip (1x3") on the bottom of the pan which these pucks were not attached to. I will try to send you an email with the picture since I can't attach pictures. thanks for any input.

 

[toy720]

those look like the caps at the end of the bores on the vb , that looks like just a partial spring out of the vb was this found after your rebuild or before?

 

[Glacier991]

Those litle pucks probably came from a pan gasket. I vaguely recall this issue coming up before. The spring... I dunno.

 

[toy720]

i guess my math is not very good i was thinking they were caps on the end of the bores but i guess the picture makes them look bigger?

 

[BillJ]

Thanks guys, I pulled the gasket from the garbage and confirmed Glacier was exactly right (the gasket has two of these around each hole and a number of them were missing). I guess it is back to square one.

 

[Glacier991]

Ok Bill... let's explore this together.... try and get me the most excruciating detail possible... rpms, shift points, temps, exactly WHAT it is doing... and tell me what level of VB rebuild you did ?

 

[spindlecone]

Glacier
Pls explane, how could these pucks, get from the gasket into the pan, are they solid alum? what purpose do they serve? as part of a gasket?

 

[BrooklynBay]

Here is the link to that other thread on a spring that was found in a transmission pan: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152158&highlight=spring+found+in+pan. Could you post a picture of that gasket which these parts fell out of?

 

[Glacier991]

Spindlecone.... I can only offer my thoughts, this is one of those "I do not know for sure' situations. My guess is that they are designed to limit gasket crush. Others more knowledgeable on this issue may chime in and offer something else, but that is about all I can come up with , and candidly I think that makes pretty good sense and is probably the correct explanation.

I will not pass off guesses as fact. This is a guess.

 

[BillJ]

Picture of Pan gasket

Here is a picture of the pan gasket with the Missing "Puck".

Note: This was the OEM gasket that came with the truck, since it only had a tranny flush at ~65K before the rebuild. Currently at ~81K.

BillJ

PS: Will give the details of the work done in another post.

 

[Bigg_billy]

He shoots-he scores...

The pucks were "invented" to give folks a "sure torque" when tightening the pan bolts. Most people shortcut the tightening/torquing process which leads to bunching the gasket, hydraulic jacking, and eventual leaks. The pan gasket should be tightened in at least 3 passes and the VB at least 4, especially due to the fact that there is bound to be tranny fluid trapped between gasket surfaces that needs to be gracefully forced out in the torquing process, or you'll end up with falsely torqued bolts, which then become loose bolts, especially at these very light torques (97 and 133 in/lbs.)

As for the spring, my guess is it's a broken piece of any number of springs in the VB. To find out which....man.... your going to have to take stuff apart again. You should look to start with the ones that are able to drop out of the VB easily like the coast clutch spring, etc., as opposed to nested or closed in areas. Since it is an "end" of a spring you should be able to find one with a missing end...

Let us know how you do,

Bill

 

[spindlecone]

Interesting
Thats why when I installed my PML oversized pan, they said do not use the OEM re-usable ribbed gasket as it will not seal as the alum pan has a flat machined surface.
Did not notice if the OEM gasket had those pucks.

 

[BillJ]

Details of my work so far:

1) Performed the following:
a) Installed Ford service Update (KT3L5P-7M203-JA), new VB separator plate (7Z490, with bonded gasket) and updated solenoid bracket.
b) Superior Shift Kit:
(1) Performed Steps 1,2,3,6 & 9 (1= replace outer press regulator spring, 2= replace spring on fwd engage control valve, 3= replaced fwd modulator valve and left OE mod. spring, 6= drilled the two separator plate holes, 9= installed double lip reverse servo seal.
(2) Did NOT do steps 4,5,7,8 & 10 (4= coast clutch valve plug, 5= thermo blocker, 7= EPC pressure riser, 8= Intermediate return spring, 10= direct drum springs)
c) Installed new EPC valve, pan filter and gasket.
d) Installed pan drain plug (thank GOD, no more ATF baths) and added 7 qt. Of Mercon V.
2) Lessons Learned:
a) The worst part was getting the !@#%& pan out. I found a post under another thread to drop the front of the drive shaft (worked great, will post pictures when I go back in)
b) I should have bought O-rings for the 4 shift solenoids and the reverse servo gasket (inexpensive). I did not pull out the solenoids to clean for fear of disturbing the existing O-rings. The reverse servo gasket looked OK but for little cost a new one would be a good idea.
c) Should of picked up a smaller forceps (had to grind the standard size down to fit in the VB when removing the retainer clips)
3) Next steps being considered:
a) Order solenoid O-rings, servo gasket, pan gasket and one shift solenoid.
b) Drop pan, replace SS2 and replace other SS O-rings and clean SS1,3,&4.
c) Adjust bands (esp. Intermediate)

Looking at the chart (will attach below) in the ATSG 5R55E manual, it looks when third gear is engaged (seems to me my problem, harsh shift) that the Intermediate Band is applied and the SS2 is turned ON.

I will test drive the truck tonight and capture any codes and other details. (I’m using a laptop with Car Code OBD-II software and cable (http://www.obd-2.com/).

Thanks Bigg_billy for the coast spring suggestion.

 

[BrooklynBay]

I was just curious as to what kind of material that first pan gasket is with those spacers? What type of pan gasket are you putting in now?

 

[BrooklynBay]

Which place did you order these parts from? I would suggest buying the rubber replaceable gasket which is rubber, and doesn't need any gasket paste. I made my own out of high temperature orange colored gasket material that was from a plumbing supply. It is the same gasket material that they use on boiler flanges, such as on circulator pumps. It lasts for years, and can be reused. I used a gasket making tool kit from Harbor Freight to punch out the holes.

 

[spindlecone]

Rubber here also, no sealent needed, actually I think it was neoprene.
Don't think actual rubber would work well

 

[BillJ]

Pan Gasket

I put in a Pro-King filter kit (filter and gasket) which I got from Advance Auto (a little pricy, ~$34). I'm not sure the material of the original gasket.

They're website states it is a silicone rubber gasket. (http://www.pro-kingproducts.com/filterkits.html)

 

[Bigg_billy]

Cork

Brooklyn, The original gasket with puck spacers is cork, generally not the best to reuse, and the reason the pucks get in the pan. You can buy the filter as I did from bulkparts.com for $6, and an improved gasket for $2. (per my thread http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154655) or the cork version for $.97. BillJ, I wished I had replaced all of the solenoids when I did mine, Bulkparts has the complete set for a little over $300. Mine tested out alright electrically, but you never know mechanically. My job worked out good, the Mrs. is reporting 18 mpg last tank, as opposed to 12 mpg before I started.

Bill