SOA Conversion questions...

[The_Renegade]

K, I've looked around, but can't find the info I need. Here's the questions. I wanna do the SOA conversion, but I need to know if my stock shocks will hold up (at least until I put some money together for rancho's) and if the new perches on top of the axle need to be welded, or if they are just held in place by the u-bolts. Also, what effect will lifting the rear that much without playing with the front end will cause any serious driveability issues. What are the measurements on the new u-bolts (I can have them made at work) and last but not least, what should the pinion angle be? I've never really tackled a project like this before so I want to go into it well prepared. My ex is my daily driver so it can't be out of commission for too long if I screw something up...

Thx guys in advance...

 

[jared ajlouny]

your not going to lift the front at all?

 

[410Fortune]

I dont think you searched very hard because the answer to every single one of those questions is on this site, covered in excess.

Here are my thoughts:
NO reason for a SOA unless you lift the front
Your stock shocks will reach, yes, you will have to re-locate where they are mounted.
The spring perches SHOULD be welded, the Superlift kit does not weld them and they have failed.
You will need custom U bolts, the length is not really that important, just make them really long, then when you have it setup and everything tight, you can cut them to length
The pinion angle is not something to mess with. Most people who know what they are looking at can eyeball it, but you need to do some research or find somebody who knows.
Also of guys dont mess with the pinion angle at all and dont have any problems with just the SOA, personally when I converted an 8.8 to spring over for my BII I eyeballed it and it came out fine.

 

[The_Renegade]

As far as lifting the front goes, I do plan on it, but I need to price up f250 coil spacers and stuff first for the front end plus I need some tie rod/ball joint/steering work in general so I'm going to do the whole front end at once when I have the parts... Would probably look kinda dumb if I jacked the front end first then did the back later....

As far as not looking, I probably didn't search hard enough (sorry,sorry,sorry,sorry,sorry,sorry, ) but everything I had read on the SOA so far seemed a little vague when it came to the nitpicky sorta details I'm worried about... I just don't wanna wind up with a $3000 paperweight on my front lawn... *grin*

For the pinion angle, just wondering if the new perches should be welded on about 180 degrees from the original or if that would throw the angle off badly...

Other than that stuff, rest should be a piece of cake...

Thx again 410fortune, I know us noobs probably irritate the hell outta u guys with dumb stuff like this, but the help is definately appreciated...

Phil B.

 

[Isles4evr]

Personaly I don't think yuo should do the SOA until you do the front end. The soa will give you 5-6" of lift, and it will look really stupid IMO. I ran just a set of 2" shackles for a week or 2 before I did spacers in the front and I thought it looked retarted. As far a pinion angle, if you search on the pirate4x4 board there are many, many threads about the "proper" way to set it, and as 410 mentioned you don't want to mess it up, you will have faliure after faliure. 180 will get it close, and is a good starting point but won't be exactly right.

Hope this helps some.

Chris

 

[The_Renegade]

Well, I don't really mind if it sits angled forward a little... I just did radius arm bushings and cranked her up full in the front, and with the weary leaf packs and all the weight in the back with the tire carrier and a load of tools and gear, she sags about 2 inches lower in the back right now, so it wouldn't be overly bad, maybe 3-4" higher in the rear... I'll have to look into it, thanks for all the help guys, it's really very much appreciated....

Phil B.

 

[Chew_12]

SOA = 6" of Lift

 

[NOTAJP]

If you put the spring perches level with the stock perches (180*) you will be fine. Actually, you can use the stock u-bolts as the length are exactly the same with the springs on top. However, on a '91 there's a good chance they won't come out nice so to get a set handy would be a good idea. The shocks will be fine, it's the length that is the difference. If you locate the shock mounts on top of the axle, that too will be just fine.

How did you 'crank up' the radius arms? F150 spacers will only cost you about $30 or so and will give you maybe 2" of lift. You could get a 2" coil to match your rear lift but then your alignment will be way off without drop brackets. There have been some good deals lately on slightly used 4" lifts on this board. just another idea for you.

 

[The_Renegade]

Just tightened the bolts on the end of the radius arms with a 3/4 impact until they wouldn't go any further, the front end sits about 1"-1 1/2" higher than it did before the new bushings went in... I doubled the dishes at the front of the bushings as well, think that had something to do with it...

As fer the lift, I'm trying to go as cheap as humanly possible... I love to wheel but it's hard on the wallet...

Phil B.

 

[tealtterror]

what would happen if i just used a 4inch suspenion lift in the front along with f150 coil spacers, got it aligned and checked the camber bushings and everything and did a soa in the back? and lengthened the back break lines. would this work?

 

[91nut]

Coils spacers and SOA

I am also going to do the SOA in the rear with the 5.5" coil springs from www.wildhorses4x4.com . You need to buy the larger seat plate to accomodate the larger diameter coils (not 100% sure) I would need the drop pitman arm (which I can find from the offroader magazine) I am not sure what company, but they sell drop pitman arms for any set up to 8" lift. The guys over at wildhorses told me the actual lift with the 5.5" coild springs is around 3-4 inches depending on the weight of the vehicle. The only way to tell is to swap them in and see how it sits. Then with the rear, do the SOA and see how it sits. Coil spacers might be used to level it.

I am new to this board but I have had my explorer for a couple of years doing research and saving money.

I have some questions too, that some of you seasoned guys could answer. Besides the drop pitman arm, brake lines, shocks, what else needs to be done with the steering given my setup? SOA in the rear with 5.5" coils up front (maybe coil spacers to level). I am considering using longer radius arms for the full droop articulation but I have an ARB in the rear and I am not sure I need that much art. Please let me know if I am doing this right or should I waste my money on a full lift kit. I am very mechanically inclined and have friends that wheel all the time so I have the help when I need it.

 

[Joey P]

I didn't read anywhere about drop brackets. If you have a '91, you will need radius arm drops(You mention extended arms so you shouldn't need drop brackets for the RA'S if you go with extended arms.) You will also need axle pivot drop brackets. You can't just put in a set of 5.5" coils on a ttb and make it work. You will have some severe camber issues, I would think.

 

[91nut]

Is there a place that sells only radius drop brackets. I am not sure if I want the extended radius arms because I don't have any problems with traction with the ARB and the L.S. up front. Drop brackets would be nice and a set of axle pivot brackets, then an alignment from the shop.

 

[NOTAJP]

"I am also going to do the SOA in the rear with the 5.5" coil springs from www.wildhorses4x4.com . You need to buy the larger seat plate to accomodate the larger diameter coils (not 100% sure)...The guys over at wildhorses told me the actual lift with the 5.5" coild springs is around 3-4 inches depending on the weight of the vehicle. The only way to tell is to swap them in and see how it sits."

Do not purchase the wild horses coils. They are designed for a solid axle truck. The spring rates are very different between solid axle and TTB. This could cause some ill effects. Those 5.5" springs will net about 7" on an Explorer with a solid axle only.

"Then with the rear, do the SOA and see how it sits. Coil spacers might be used to level it."

A SOA rear will net you about 5.5" of lift. After the springs settle (and they will) you most likely will need an AAL to match the front.

"I am new to this board but I have had my explorer for a couple of years doing research and saving money."
Welcome! There is some awesome stuff here and some killer Exploders to check out. A lot of research is the best approach. Keep reading...

"I have some questions too, that some of you seasoned guys could answer. Besides the drop pitman arm, brake lines, shocks, what else needs to be done with the steering given my setup? SOA in the rear with 5.5" coils up front (maybe coil spacers to level). I am considering using longer radius arms for the full droop articulation but I have an ARB in the rear and I am not sure I need that much art. Please let me know if I am doing this right or should I waste my money on a full lift kit. I am very mechanically inclined and have friends that wheel all the time so I have the help when I need it."

As far as steering goes, the only thing other than a dropped pitmant arm for the TTB is the Super Runner steering by Superlift. That was prob the best mod I did to the TTB, second only to the SAS. Double check all your tie rods and make sure they are all tight.

The front Geometry will require a lot more than just lift coils. The TTBs and radius arms need to be dropped down to keep everything in place. If you just put in lift coils (assuming you could actually install them) without the rest of the lift then your tires would look like \ /. Lift kits are not a waste of money. The manufactures take a lot of time with engineers to make sure everything works like factory.

What does the ARB locker have to do with front suspension travel? The traction is great but keeping the tires on the ground is even better. Why not have both? I would tell you and anybody thinking of the same lift to do two things: #1, don't do anything half @ss. It'll cost you more money later to fit it then to do it right in the first place. Suspension/steering geometry isn't anything to mess with. #2, if you are starting from a stock Explorer, seriously consider a solid axle swap. Check out all of the Exploders in the SAS registry. There's a ton of information there to read up on. Good luck!

 

[NOTAJP]

One more thing for ya, if you want to keep the TTB read up everything that Jamie(410fortune) has posted and built. That's how a TTB is done.

 

[410Fortune]

OH my goodness...

Dont torquye down the radius arm nuts that much! they should be tight but not that tight, it will mess up yout toe.

Also the F-150 spring seats are from a 90 2wd, they will gain you 1-5/8" of lift, thats all.
Anything over 2" of lift up front from the coils will require drop brackets, the camber shims only come 2.75 degree max and on most trucks this will limit you to 2" MAX before your wearing out the outside of your tires (+ camber)

The SOA may not be for you if you only want 2" of lift up front.
Either spend the $$$ for a 4" -6" front lift kit to match the SOA, or stick with F-150 spring seats and warrior shackles + AAL in the back.....

 

[NOTAJP]

Thanks for pointing that out Jamie. I didn't read up that far. I just read the post about the 5.5" springs and stopped there.

 

[91nut]

NO, thanks for the info

I have considered the SAS. But I thought I could get by with the stock axle. But then I thought, why would I just get by when I could do the whole damn thing right the first time. I will be looking for a D44 from a bronco or old Ford for the conversion. You made my mind up about the SAS because of the overall durability. I will keep reading about axles and possible swaps with the least amount of Fab work (no welder at home, only friends). I know the EB axles are a popular swap and very durable. Anyone selling one????????????????????

 

[TheRookie]

You are going to hate doing an sas without having a welder. It is Required. and loosen up those radius arms. Not only does this alter toe it also will decrease flex.

 

[The_Renegade]

Can tightening the radius arms too tight cause damage? I've had them like that for about a week now and the truck feels waaaaay more stable, has more positive steering, and handles like a dream off-road... I also doubled the dishes at the end of the bushings towards the front, maybe that shortened the distance that the nut threads on the arm enough that it's not really over-torqued?

Phil B.