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SOHC Belt Squeal at Startup: Stumped

prayforsurf0

Active Member
Joined
April 7, 2015
Messages
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City, State
Montauk NY
Year, Model & Trim Level
1998 Ford Explorer XLT
This one seemed so simple, but I'm now stumped. Here is the order of events.

It started as a tiny, "chirp" at startup. One quick chirp and immediately went away after starting.

Few days later.

Grinding Pulley noise comes from engine. Discover AC compressor pulley is shot so I replace it with a bypass pulley from advance auto.

Startup "chirp" remains, and begins to get worse over the next days (lasting a few seconds longer and louder, death loud) but the noise from the AC compressor is gone.

I take off the belt and spin the pulleys (power steering, idler, alternator). They seem fine and spin freely, but that chirp is becoming a squeal that takes longer to go away (I'm assuming some pulley bearing is getting worse, therefore the squeal getting worse).

Based on where the sound seems to come from I decide to change the idler pulley, but the squealing at startup remains.

I decide it must be the alternator pulley so I buy a new alternator (turns out to be the wrong alternator for my truck, but before I realized it sort of fit the car and the pulley lined up), and the squeal is gone with the wrong alternator !

I thought for sure that the alternator pulley was shot since the squeal had stopped, but returned to the auto store for the correct alternator for my truck (the parts were in the wrong boxes).

I put the correct alternator on the truck. Fits perfect, pulleys align. Start up the truck, Squealing is back on startup !!!

Now I want my original alternator back because that was never the problem in the first place. However, driving home from the auto store the belt gets sliced long ways. Lucky I cut the loose piece off and still was able to drive on that belt so its not as wide, but still works. But why did my belt get chewed like that after driving a few miles ?

When I put my original alternator back on the truck, as well as a new belt, the squealing gone again. Finally problem solved. I concluded, it was never the idler or the alternator, it was the bypass pulley that was out of alignment but now fixed since I removed the spacer bushing.

I thought I fixed it, but guess what.

Belt slices laterally again after 30 miles driving, worse than the first time and comes off the pulleys (the first time it sliced it was actually still on the pulleys and working, I just had to cut the loose piece off that was slapping around. This time it sliced long ways and came off the pulleys.

What the hell is going on ? Why would the belt rotate on the pulleys for so long before finally slicing long ways ??

BTW My tensioner is new too. Good tension on the belt.

So I put my old belt on the car (the one that ripped the first time that is still in tact, but not as wide as originally)
 



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Thanks for that link. I really don't want to believe that is the probelm ! But I'm wondering why the startup squeal went away when I removed the spacer bushing on the ac compressor bypass pulley ? But then again, the squeal went away, but now my rig is eating serpentine belts. wtf
 






the harmonic balancer seems ok. Its not separated and its not moving/wiggling when the car is running. this is killing me. why would a new belt and removing that spacer bushing on the ac bypass pulley make the squeal go away for so long then return ?
 






Where is your tensioner mark positioned after your bypass? If it's too far left of the center mark the belt may be too loose. Stock ST belts left the factory too long and caused slipping and other issues. Regarding your belt "slicing", that can only be an alignment issue, especially after removing the spacer solved the noise, albeit temporary. Also make sure belt and pulley grooves are squeaky clean, amazing the amount of contaminants that scrub out of them. ST stock length belt (K060866) shown on left, 6/10" shorter belt (K060860) on right silenced my start up chirp and power steering loss when turned to lock. As you probably know, DON'T be tempted to use belt dressing on serpentine belts.

Stock20Belt_1.jpg
Gates20K060860_1.jpg
 






You're right, I think my tensioner is no longer putting enough tension on the belt after installing the bypass pulley and now its slipping. I noticed because I was under the car pulling on the tensioner from below and noticed at rest it was all the way relaxed even the belt seemed to have decent tension, that explains why I was able to use it for a while before I perhaps finally ran off a pulley and sliced itself. Thank you ! Im going to try a smaller belt !

the nearest auto store is Advanced Auto. If I give them the stock part number you gave me above, will their inventory system be the same ?
 






No, don't use the belt numbers I listed. Since you used the A/C bypass pulley the length will be different from stock.
Best gauge is to reinstall the belt, start the engine, shut off and check the tensioner marks. All a matter of trial and
error. Ideally, you want the center mark in the middle or to the right. Use this Gates belt guide for length increments.

http://www.gates.com/oreilly/PDFs/SizeListings.pdf
 






No, don't use the belt numbers I listed. Since you used the A/C bypass pulley the length will be different from stock.
Best gauge is to reinstall the belt, start the engine, shut off and check the tensioner marks. All a matter of trial and
error. Ideally, you want the center mark in the middle or to the right. Use this Gates belt guide for length increments.

http://www.gates.com/oreilly/PDFs/SizeListings.pdf

If you have a SOHC V6, see post #11 of this thread.

https://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375631&highlight=belt+A/C+bypass+pulley
 












Good catch koda, no surprise you helped in that thread. Hopefully OP saw this before wasting time in the AAP parking lot.

EDIT- Interesting, according to this Dorman 34184 review, the K060710 belt fits WITHOUT using the bypass pulley. :scratch:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R29817...etail-glance&nodeID=15684181&store=automotive

http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-HELP-Bypass-Pulley-34184/dp/B000IY6RYQ#customerReviews

Thank you guys ! I'm not sure yet 100% but I'm confident the culprit is the cheap ass bypass pulley from advanced auto. After reading review in the first link to posted, I remeber having the same issue regarding the spacer. I kept pulling the pulley on and off going back and forth using the spacer bushing and not using it, unable to decide which case made the pulley look more aligned. with and without the spacer both seemed off.

I'm going to try bypassing the pulley entirely with a shorter belt, although the given part number for kodas link (part #5060710 ) is confusing me, what brand matches that part number ? Will my auto store be able to get me the right belt with that part ? Im pretty sure they only carry two brands, one being dayco.

EDIT Never mind I went back to your original link to the gates belt pdf
 






I'm going to try bypassing the pulley entirely with a shorter belt, although the given part number for kodas link (part [URL=http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=5060710]#5060710 [/URL] ) is confusing me, what brand matches that part number ? Will my auto store be able to get me the right belt with that part ? Im pretty sure they only carry two brands, one being dayco.

Dayco. I just googled "part #5060710 " it was one of the first.

http://www.autozone.com/cooling-heating-and-climate-control/belt/dayco-serpentine-belt/150341/
 












Any auto parts store would be able to x-ref the belt number. Many manufactuers use the same part number for belts as it breaks down into info about the belt (how many ribs, length, width) example 50 mm wide, 6 rib 71.0 mm long.
 






FIXED

So the problem is solved. It was the bypass pulley I installed (replaced my AC compressor when the pulley went) a few weeks ago that was causing the problems all along. For some reason it worked for a little while, doing nothing worse than a small "chirp" or a short squeal on startup. I was mislead because the sound seemed to be coming from the alternator or idler side of the engine. I changed both components, and neither solved the issued. Someone suggested the harmonic balancer which I prayed was not the problem. Thank god it wasn't. Finally, revealed to me by another poster on this thread, I found a review of the exact bypass pulley I installed on my truck by a tech of 25 years who described the exact issues I was facing (misalignment of the bypass pulley with the rest of the pulley system regardless of using or not using the spacer washer). The misalignment of the pulley was so small with and without the spacer that my belt seemed to be ok, but the startup chirp everytime, and the eventual belt run off that happened twice told me there was an issue.

For anyone dealing with a serpentine belt issue on their SOHC 4.0l engine due to using a bypass pulley in place of their ac compressor, exclude the bypass pulley all together and buy an entirely different belt that is much shorter, and literally bypasses the ac compressor/bypass pulley system. The shorter belt part number is K060710 or 5060710. That belt fits around all your belt components (alt, ps, crank, wp, idler, tensioner) entirely skipping the ac compressor and fits perfect, engaging your auto tensioner to the middle position.
 






Glad it's fixed. ANY issue with Dorman parts should come as no surprise. IMO, they've never been known for fit or QC.
 






Thanks for all your legwork on the proper size belt to use when bypassing the a/c compressor. Wouldn't be a bad idea to purchase one to have in the truck as a spare in case the clutch pulley should seize up on me. Had that happen on my '93 some years ago and barely made it the 5 miles back home. Rockauto has the K060710 on close-out for less than $10 shipped.
 






Thanks for all your legwork on the proper size belt to use when bypassing the a/c compressor. Wouldn't be a bad idea to purchase one to have in the truck as a spare in case the clutch pulley should seize up on me. Had that happen on my '93 some years ago and barely made it the 5 miles back home. Rockauto has the K060710 on close-out for less than $10 shipped.

Never could work out why some people would stow an old stocking to use as an emergency drive belt.
Get a new belt, fit it and stow the old one that's not buggered yet as an emergency spare.
 






Belt size decoding K060170

K?
06 - 6 rib
0710 - 71.0 inches long

Many (not all) manufacturers follow this coding convention
 






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