Steering Wheel Wobble

[peterk9]

I had an older Ford passenger van that had a bit of a vibration. I formed a large washer to the driveshaft shape and fastened it with a hose clamp. A few test rides and adjustments and the vibration disappeared. I'm guessing the Explorer still has a driveshaft of some description.

Peter

 

[mistic571]

Just quick update, after i picked the car (again) from the shop, i made a turn and broth it back. I still have a wobbling and im refusing to drive it like this. I spoke with Service Adv (SA) and expressed my frustration. I own this car for a little more than a month and its already fifth time in the shop. What they replaced last time (according to documents) is right drive shaft, im not sure if they did or not, but i still have same problem. I went on the test drive with the SA and i showed him the problem. Seriously this is unacceptable, Ford Tech dont know whats wrong with the car, or they Don't want to know! Im extremely disappointed!!

 

[MtlexSport]

Maybe your problem could be power steering related.... There is an electric power steering module under the dash wich consist of an eletric motor for power assist, a torque sensor and the power sterring control module. This vehicule is equipped wich a system that compensates for imperfections on the road. If the system starts malfunctionning maybe the electric motor can induced vibration in the steering wheel at certains speeds.. Here is a video describing he power steering from a Mariner ( same system)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vofgrQqWZ1k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT2rXlV2RkM

 

[peterk9]

Maybe your problem could be power steering related.... There is an electric power steering module under the dash wich consist of an eletric motor for power assist, a torque sensor and the power sterring control module. This vehicule is equipped wich a system that compensates for imperfections on the road. If the system starts malfunctionning maybe the electric motor can induced vibration in the steering wheel at certains speeds.. Here is a video describing he power steering from a Mariner ( same system)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vofgrQqWZ1k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT2rXlV2RkM

Ford's syetm is called EPAS. Electric Power Assisted Steering.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...cFhCeP0xVDi_e4aWpKphF0Q&bvm=bv.96339352,d.cWw

Peter

 

[pup5581]

Maybe your problem could be power steering related.... There is an electric power steering module under the dash wich consist of an eletric motor for power assist, a torque sensor and the power sterring control module. This vehicule is equipped wich a system that compensates for imperfections on the road. If the system starts malfunctionning maybe the electric motor can induced vibration in the steering wheel at certains speeds.. Here is a video describing he power steering from a Mariner ( same system)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vofgrQqWZ1k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT2rXlV2RkM

No way this power steering issue..if it was the issue..cause things through the floor and gas pedal could it?

 

[SHUMAX]

UPDATE:

As you may have noticed in another thread under WHEEL BEARING HOWL, I had the other three bearings replaced. No change. So, four new wheel bearings in 500 miles. No change.

Today, I went back to Firestone and they broke down all of the tires and rims and road forced them again. Very low numbers in the front - 4 and 7. Rear was 11 and 17.

When done, they put the car on the rack with someone inside. They drove it to 65mph and the wheels looked perfectly smooth. Inspected the front axles, no play and they rotated smoothly.

Looked at the drivers rear axle and BAM!! It's hoping up and down as it rotates. The passengers rear is, too, but half as much as the drivers side rear - but, also more than the front. Quite a bit of movement in that rear drivers axle - more than this video (below) can capture. It, obviously, connects to the diff. Put your hand on the diff and it's hot and shaking quite a bit. You can actually see it shaking. Look up through the drive shaft and you can see the rubber bushing shaking.
I drove home and it's generally smooth at all speeds but 60mph. It still wobbles at that speed - 58-62mph now. I say "generally" because I now notice it in the seats and I suspect that's the axle being bent.

The way harmonics work, I wonder if it's possible for that bent axle to move the shake up the driveline and have it come out in the steering wheel?

http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v324/shumax/B5A3133B-4CB7-4C04-A577-08640A9E3CB3_zpskbdnf0ab.mp4



I did contact our fleet folks and explained the situation. They put me in touch with the regional service rep. I spoke with him and he is going to contact my dealer and get in touch with me.

Thoughts?
Shumax

 

[SHUMAX]

Put the car up in the front this afternoon and grabbed the axles. They will always move JUST a hair, I know. They have to. The passengers front was tight. The drivers front had slop in it. Moved around at least twice as much as the passengers side. See video

http://youtu.be/bxOplJDY2gs

My hand moving is the "play" in the axle shaft. It is not my hand slipping around on the shaft itself. Make sense?

 

[SHUMAX]

Come on! Nothing?! Geesh.

I feel like I'm doing the heavy lifting here, folks. HAHA.

UPDATE: Dealer called. They can't get a FRONT axle in for a week. The rear axle is a month - on back order. Really? Wow. Does that mean there are a ton of issues resulting in a shortage of supply? Or, does it mean not that many people are replacing axles on a 2011? I suggested a new set of tires. They suggested Michelin. Started that process and they balked in the end. Said, "if you've put three sets of tires on and have the same issue, we're 99.9% sure that's not the issue." I agree.

I got online and found the axles for about $330 for the drivers front (has play in it) and the drivers rear (appears bent as it hops when it turns - see above). I'm inclined to order in the front one as it could be here next week. Slap it in and see what we come up with. If no improvement, order the rear axle and wait. Slap that in. No change? Order the new tires.

I will get to the bottom of this....

Shumax

 

[mistic571]

My car is still in the shop(left it there last Tuesday) They called me last night to tell me that they are changing drive shaft assembly (what ever that is), they were waiting parts for a week and they just arrived yesterday. Service advisor told me that he will drive it home and bring it back in the morning just to make sure all is fine and there is no wobbling anymore.

Expecting their call now, if i don't hear from them probably there was still wobbling and he put it in the shop again.

 

[SHUMAX]

Spent another morning with the dealership. They updated the steering sensor as there was a code apparent. Took off on the road and the condition continued. I went back and got the tech and we went for a ride. He, again, confirmed the issue.

He sent an email to Ford seeking guidance. They also put it on the lift and confirmed the two rear CV's are hoping up and down quite a bit. They didn't think that would impact the steering wheel wobble, though. While up, we noticed what was causing the clunk - rear passengers sway bar links boot was off and there was play. They ordered two links for the rear to repair.

I'm dropping it back off tomorrow night and they are going to work on it Thursday and Friday morning some more with the hope the email from Ford will come back with suggestions.

CV's remain on back order. The drivers front is available Thursday; the drivers rear not until August!

Keep you posted...
Shumax

 

[SHUMAX]

Another update:

Dealer drove vehicle nearly 75 miles, roundtrip. They now suspect something is wrong with the electronic steering system. They are saying this because the condition is random. I'll get going on the road and it wobbles a bit at 40mph and then is dead smooth. This just started at this speed range. Or, I'm going 58mph and it's shaking the steering wheel like very noticeably and then it's smooth. Or, 62mph and it's shaking and then will smooth out. It never really shakes all of the time. Sort of comes and goes and now at an even broader speed range.

They want to replace the steering wheel control module next. I told them to go ahead and give it a try.

One thing I noticed that I wanted to report on - the EX is new to me. I just picked it up about 6-weeks ago. The prior owner had the steering go out on them while the car was parked. They had to have it towed to the dealer, who updated the computer and replaced a "steering gear." That's what shows in the vehicles history. Anyone know anything about what, specifically, that gear would be? I'm starting to wonder if it really does have something to do with the electronic steering control system. I also wish I knew what "gear" was replaced. I would think Ford could look at it in more detail through their system; I'll inquire when they call me back. The steering module is on back order...

Shumax

 

[dco43054]

Just to be clear - you purchased a used Ford Explorer with about 67K miles on it. You have replaced the wheels that came on the car with other sets that have been coated by a non-Ford third party, and have changed out tires.

When you are describing your symptoms as a wobble, it seems you are getting a vibration that is transmitting through the steering wheel.

In answer to your question about driveshafts, there have not been a significant number of problems noted on this site about bad ones, front or rear.

What did it drive like before you started changing out wheels and tires? Was the issue apparent then? It seems like you are saying that it was, and when you are saying "wobble", you are referring to a vibration in the steering wheel that can be seen as you drive.

Given that you bought it used, what are the chances that the prior owner had problems and that is why it was sold? Did you buy it from a Ford dealer, other dealer, or private party?

If you bought it from a dealership, I'd take it back to them and see if they will fix it. If you bought it from a private party, you choices are limited.

 

[SHUMAX]

Just to be clear - you purchased a used Ford Explorer with about 67K miles on it. You have replaced the wheels that came on the car with other sets that have been coated by a non-Ford third party, and have changed out tires.

When you are describing your symptoms as a wobble, it seems you are getting a vibration that is transmitting through the steering wheel.

In answer to your question about driveshafts, there have not been a significant number of problems noted on this site about bad ones, front or rear.

What did it drive like before you started changing out wheels and tires? Was the issue apparent then? It seems like you are saying that it was, and when you are saying "wobble", you are referring to a vibration in the steering wheel that can be seen as you drive.

Given that you bought it used, what are the chances that the prior owner had problems and that is why it was sold? Did you buy it from a Ford dealer, other dealer, or private party?

If you bought it from a dealership, I'd take it back to them and see if they will fix it. If you bought it from a private party, you choices are limited.

The OEM rims and Hankook tires, also vibrated in similar speed ranges. Because the tires were at the end of their life cycle anyway, I planned to replace them thinking that was the issue. I went through three different sets of Bridgestone tires and am now onto the Michelin tires. Relative to the rims purchased, they are OEM but coated in black chrome through a PVD process. The coating is very light weight and uniform. The rims were tested for runout and found to be nearly perfect - well within spec.

I use the description of a "wobble," but you may call it a vibration. When I can physically "see" the steering wheel hop back and forth, in my mind, that's a wobble. I can see how one may also call it a vibration, though. Make sense?

The prior owner noticed the condition but did not pay much attention to it as they are not a "car person." It's a fleet vehicle and they turned it in as they wanted a newer model. Further, they were not as in tune to maintenance so it was time for things like brakes, tires, etc. I'm sure we all know people who are not into their car that much. It's transportation from A to B.

Three Ford techs and two techs at Firestone confirmed the condition and agree it's not "right."

Thanks for your reply - it's appreciated!
Shumax

 

[dco43054]

LOL. There is a whole secret lexicon of problem terms that are taught in the back rooms of good auto shops.

From what I was taught in my youth, I'd call your problem a "steering wheel vibration".

From what you've said about the person who owned it "turning it in", it sounds like you bought it from a dealer of some sort. I'd try to get them to fix it, unless the vehicle was sold with no warranty. Then you're probably on the hook.

And since you don't know the history of the vehicle, it's hard to say what might have caused the issue. Sounds like you may be on to something with the rear axle or differential. With the miles and being a second owner, probably not anything Ford will cover or share the cost in.

 

[SHUMAX]

LOL. There is a whole secret lexicon of problem terms that are taught in the back rooms of good auto shops.

From what I was taught in my youth, I'd call your problem a "steering wheel vibration".

From what you've said about the person who owned it "turning it in", it sounds like you bought it from a dealer of some sort. I'd try to get them to fix it, unless the vehicle was sold with no warranty. Then you're probably on the hook.

And since you don't know the history of the vehicle, it's hard to say what might have caused the issue. Sounds like you may be on to something with the rear axle or differential. With the miles and being a second owner, probably not anything Ford will cover or share the cost in.

The vehicle is a Company vehicle. The prior owner and I work for the same Company and she basically turned it in. It was available, so I took it as I needed a new Company vehicle. I'm dumbing it down, but that's the long and short of it.

Also, I still have the OEM rims and tires. I've put them back on to see if the condition is there and it is. So, it really does not point to rims and tires when I've been through two sets of rims and four sets of tires. I wish I had another Explorer to bolt these up to just to be sure, though.

The dealer is focusing on the steering wheel control module now. Looking around on the net, I see other mfg. have had this issue, too. From there, we're on to axles in the front. The dealer (and I tend to agree) doesn't think that the rear axles could cause the issues all the way to the front and into the steering wheel.

My fleet department agrees that the condition needs to be repaired. As long as the expense doesn't become ridiculous, I'm sure we'll continue to chase it until we have it resolved.

Thanks again,
Shumax

 

[SHUMAX]

Update: I went ahead and replaced the sway bar links in the front this afternoon. The parts from Moog are very nice - have grease fittings and all. The biggest challenge was accessing the 22mm bolt on the bottom joint. Wow. A box end wrench and some muscle did it. No way an impact was fitting in there. The result? I notice less noise going over small bumps at lower speeds. I paid around $50, shipped, from Rock Auto. They were close to $100 at the dealership.

While I was in there, though, I noticed something I think may be causing my shimmy/wobble/vibration! Look at the photo below. This is the drivers front axle. I noticed the inside of my rim was splattered with grease; so was the wheel well. Also, note the puddle of grease on top of the lower control arm. You can see the greasing oozing out of the joint.

I had been trying my old OEM rims/Hankook setup today to see if anything done this week would help the vibration/shimmy/wobble. Those may be a hair smoother, but I'm not 100% sure.

So, below, you will see a shot with the OEM rims (lighter colored on the inside) and then the OEM rims that were coated in the PVD black chrome. Note, I drove only 20 miles on the OEM rims that are white/lighter colored and that's how much grease came out in that short drive! Also, note the grease splatter on the inside of the knuckle.

I'll ask, but believe I know - a CV that is leaking grease is on it's way out. No doubt. It certainly is plausible that the same CV joint could be contributing/completely causing the random vibration/shimmy/wobble, correct?

My dealership said the axles are on back order. Ick...

Thanks,
Shumax

 

[dco43054]

Update: I went ahead and replaced the sway bar links in the front this afternoon. The parts from Moog are very nice - have grease fittings and all. The biggest challenge was accessing the 22mm bolt on the bottom joint. Wow. A box end wrench and some muscle did it. No way an impact was fitting in there. The result? I notice less noise going over small bumps at lower speeds. I paid around $50, shipped, from Rock Auto. They were close to $100 at the dealership.

While I was in there, though, I noticed something I think may be causing my shimmy/wobble/vibration! Look at the photo below. This is the drivers front axle. I noticed the inside of my rim was splattered with grease; so was the wheel well. Also, note the puddle of grease on top of the lower control arm. You can see the greasing oozing out of the joint.

I think you may have a winner there.

 

[SHUMAX]

I am hoping that you are correct. I'm having a difficult time finding a LEFT front axle with the tow package online. Ugh...

 

[pup5581]

I gotta drive to your dealer..at least they seem to be helping you unlike me

 

[SHUMAX]

I think the fact my company works with them helps. Also, at least lately, I am physically there every day. It helps that they are 2 miles from my house. I will be there tomorrow to show them the axle and the cruise control that also stopped working this weekend.