Stump the Chump Question. Stalling after hot, driving me crazy.

[TreDen]

Hello and thank you guys for this forum. It has helped me a lot on my path to learning how to work on my own truck.

A few years ago I was flat out broke and a white water raft guide in Montana. I was driving with a friend and saw an old explorer in a field with a 800 dollar price. It was a 1992, and a manual, which I didn't know they made them with a manual engine. I ignore the old exploder jokes and bought it. I drove that thing around the country for years...I couldn't break it even though I tried.

Well, I ended up growing up and making money. So I got ride of my old explorer and bought a brand new jetta. After hating that thing to death, I sold it, and scoured craigslist for a 1992 ford explorer...and I found one, that I flew to buy in the middle of the country. It was 5 speed, one owner, leather seats, no rust, and about 80k miles on it. I bought it for 1200 bucks.

This thing has been my daily driver for the last few years. I've ripped the seats outta the back, built a bed, added a extra battery, fridge from an RV, a little T.V and antenna. It is now my fly fishing truck and I haul my drift boat all over the country multiple times a year.

Because of this truck, and this forum I have learned how to work on the truck myself. I take pride in changing things and at this point I am starting to understand how this truck works...until my last trip.

I just got back from a 3,000 mile trip around the west. During this trip the truck started to stall out, die and not start. This only happened when it was hot. There was three big moments that stood out.

First, my truck was always over heating. So I changed the thermostat. It helped a lot.

When I am driving, on the highway, my truck stays at temperature, does just great and I can drive 500 miles without any problem. The second I get into a town, or a stop and go environment the gauge goes through the roof, and the truck stalls, dies and won't start. I let the truck cool down, and it fires up, I drive on the highway, the temp goes down and I'm all good. I pull into a gas station, turn the truck off, get gas, and it barely starts, sputters, but I gas it, get right back on the highway, everything cools down and it's fine...

When I climbed mountain passes in Montana or Colorado, the truck would overheat, stall, shut down. Then fire up when cooled down and I can drive fine. As long as the truck is in fifth gear I can drive down the road just fine. The second I get in the city it overheats and I can drive fine, but the second I turn it off, go into a store, and try to re start, it fires up...then dies until it cools down.

I'm going to change the radiator tomorrow, but what is the cause of it dying. I want to replace that also. I keep reading about sensors and ignition coils. I have a big trip to canada planned and I do not want to break down in a another country.

Please help me out guys! Thanks!

 

[Mr. Alligator]

Maybe the resolution to your cooling issue will also resolve the sputtering issue. I think that is quite possible. Fix the overheating problem first. If you still have problems, check codes.

Good luck with your project, and safe travels.

 

[natenkiki2004]

I agree with Mr Alligator.

One thing I'd do if you have the radiator out, replace the fan clutch with a Severe Duty unit from Hayden. Might be that yours has lost all it's fluid and isn't engaging when needed.

 

[MrShorty]

My explorer had a fuel pump that would shut down when hot. I would be tempted to carry a fuel pressure gauge around. Then, when it stalls and won't start, hook up the gauge and see if the fuel pressure is where it should be. Diagnose further from there.

 

[Chirko]

fan clutch is not functioning as it should.

I agree with Mr Alligator.

One thing I'd do if you have the radiator out, replace the fan clutch with a Severe Duty unit from Hayden. Might be that yours has lost all it's fluid and isn't engaging when needed.

Hayden clutch of better quality? Higher productivity?

 

[natenkiki2004]

fan clutch is not functioning as it should.

Hayden clutch of better quality? Higher productivity?

It's kind of the standard, there's not a ton of companies making fan clutches and they've been doing it quite a while. I've been real happy with my Severe Duty.

Just to add a picture, you can reach around the front of the fan clutch and feel if it's wet, then you know it needs replacement:

 

[Chirko]

Good. Thanks for the answer. I read that it is possible to repair these fan clutches. Special silicone oil change in them, and it works again. we have the clutch off-road vehicles of very poor quality. Therefore, looking for ways to repair.

 

[natenkiki2004]

It's probably different in your country but here in the US, it's so cheap to replace it's not even funny. Plus, you may not know what kind of clutch you have so it's a good opportunity to replace with a Severe Duty for offroading. I have read that you can repair them but I think you have to measure the oil in them and seal them up properly.

 

[TreDen]

Thank you guys!...For everything, I can't stress enough how amazing it is to have this forum and knowledge.

Well, I changed the radiator. It was much easier to change then I thought and it is the first thing I have ever changed on the truck that everything went smooth and I had zero problems. It felt nice to have something go right instead of fighting everything along the way.

I'm embarrassed to say, but I got a lesson in the meaning of the cooling system to the truck today. What came out of the radiator was horrible. It was this brown, orangeish, greenish, thick crap. My truck is very very happy to have new coolant, and a new radiator.

The problem is NOT gone.

Here's what I did to test it out. I needed to get it hot. I have 100 acres with two tracks all over it, so I left the truck in first gear and drove all around the farm. Then I just let it sit and run for about 10 mins. I saw the engine getting hotter, and hotter and hotter and it finally creeped above the L. Now normally when it gets like that, I turn off the truck and when I start it up it sputters and stalls.

This time, I was shocked when I turned it off and it fired right back up, I thought maybe it was gonna be ok so I drove to the gas station, about 10 miles away. Once I was on the road the temp went right back down to Normal. I pulled in got gas and it fired right up so I drove to the grocery story. It is in a strip mall, I turned in, drove in 2nd for a while slowly, then pulled in, shut it off and went shopping. When I came back out it started up, and stalled out!!

The truck fires right up but within seconds it is chugging, the rpm's are bouncing below one, and my shifter inside the truck is bouncing like crazy like the engine is dying and stalling. I QUICKLY slam it into first and start going and give it gas and it chugs along for about 10 seconds then all of a sudden checkes and starts to drive normal. Then I get on the road, temp goes down. I pull into the farm, turn it off, turn it back on and it fires right back up just fine!!

This is driving me crazy. I can not drive in town, any 25-35, stop to go traffic, or long stop lights and stop and go and I am gonna burn up, and if I turn it off, it will just start up and chug so hard.

What do I do next? I'll change it all if I have too, I want the pride of doing this myself, and I really want to learn how to do this.

Like I said, I changed the thermostat already. And people talking about fuel pump or fuel filter, I changed that last month to get my gas gauge back after years of it not working. I can't see how my engine getting hot relates to my fuel pump that is located in the tank in the back of my truck.

Do I change my fan clutch? Water pump? Some sensors? The ignition coil? All of it? Thanks guys, I'll keep giving updates.

 

[natenkiki2004]

You likely need to flush the coolant if it had brown crud in it. Probably should have done that before putting in a new radiator. I doubt you clogged your new one though. Get a bottle of radiator flush and follow the instructions.

Don't just start changing parts to change parts. Check the fan clutch, see if you can feel oil/grease on the front. If so, change it. If not, still might be worthwhile to slap a Severe Duty on it. Driving around in 1st gear means little airflow over the radiator which means the fan needs to be working well.

If I had to put out a wild guess, something is still getting too hot or is affected by the heat. Might be fuel injectors, might be the ignition coils, hard to say. First things first, make absolutely sure your cooling system is up to par and there's no issues. There will be plenty of crap stuck in the heater core and bottom of the block. The radiator flush will clean it and as long as you drain & flush it out, it should remove the suspended particles.

 

[timtimtimajim]

x2 on what nate has suggested. It would be extremely beneficial to flush out the cooling system, especially if the coolant was that dirty. And the severe duty fan clutch is also a really good idea. I'm glad I put one in mine.

My Explorer use to have an issue where it would run too hot, not as severe as what you are describing, but it was pretty bad. I replaced the radiator (twice, don't ask...) radiator hoses, water pump, thermostat, fan blade, and of course a severe duty fan clutch. I also flushed the system out really well. After doing all of that I don't have any issues with it running too hot anymore. The only time I really have to watch the temp is when I'm climbing a steep mountain pass, and I just crank the heat to make sure it stays cool in those situations.

 

[Chirko]

I bought a truck and washed first thing the cooling system from dirt and oxides. There are special facilities for washing. I took off the radiator, connected tubes suitable for pipe diameter. And at idle the engine worked. Radiator washed separately.
Clean - the guarantee of health!
P.S. just talking about the cooling system, the guys who are any of you tell me the size of a wrench for removing the fan clutch?

I want to make this for yourself.

 

[2stroke]

36 mm is the size of the nut for the fan clutch. Don't buy the tool pictured above, you would be throwing your money away. Buy or borrow a 36 mm wrench (1 7/16 wrench might work but would be on the loose side). Then either make the big crows foot, or use a big tongue and groove pliers to hold the fan while you loosen the nut.

The coil pack is a good possibility, but you don't need to replace it to find out. Here is a video how to test them from natenkiki2004.

 

[Turdle]

I have a few cheap things to try

The ECT sensor is cheap and should be changed out. Rough running engine when hot is a classic symptom of one going bad. There are 2 coolant temp sensors on your engine, one goes to the gauge ( Coolant temp sender) and the other (ECT sensor) reports to the ECM.

Check the lower radiator hose, if it is soft it may be collapsing under water pump suction.

did you replace the radiator cap? Loss of pressure at the cap would cause overheating also.

 

[TreDen]

Update number two.

Again, I can not thank everyone enough again, I am determined to drive this thing for as long as I can. Today, I have another question about the transmission...sorry to get side tracked.

First, I flushed the radiator(100 bucks) and that helped immensely. I drove all over the farm in first gear and the temp never went about L. I let it idle afterwards and the heat still stayed down.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS STILL PRESENT.

At this point I'm just done and I may just keep driving until it just won't start and keep running so I just change everything till it works again because it's driving me crazy. I can drive everywhere fine. Always starts up, especially when it is cold or the first start of the day. I have never stalled while driving. BUT every now and then I will be driving around, say 30 miles highway, 2 miles town, one stop, two stops....I will go to start it and it will fire up...and just start chugging and bucking and it seems like the engine is gonna die. I just slam it into first, give her gas and we buck along for a few hundred feet and then everything is fine, I pull out, stop, it chugs, but then I jump on the highway, get to driving temp and magically I am fine. Get home, turn it out, then for fun I turn it back on, and it fires up and idles just fine...

More info. I put on a new cheap IAC valve this spring. I changed the spark plugs this spring (10,000 miles since). I did get a new used manual transmission put in last fall, and they wrecked my exhaust pipe where it enters the engine so I have a LOUD truck I just never fixed it.

Today I am changing the ECT sensor. I checked out the MAF sensor, it seemed alright, unplugged it, truck ran fine, unplugged the IAC truck started to die so plugged back in and idled fine. I haven't checked the Ignition coil, ready to just buy a new one but a little too expensive if I don't have too. Other then pulling my hair out, What are your thoughts on just keeping driving it until it really dies and won't run and go from there? Or do I just change it all, including the Ignition coil...

Side bonus question. My truck is getting harder and harder to shift between gears, really gotta work it into gear, manual 5-speed. I put in a new used transmission last fall, and new clutch. I know there is a reservoir on the drivers side back of the engine, and I added some brake fluid , but it was full, but what was in it was pure black goop/waterish color. Not the clear brake fluid I was adding. When the truck is off and I shift between the gears it sounds like metal on metal clicking underneath, like rubbing too deer antlers together...Just one more thing on the truck. Any quick advice on this new problem?

Not ready to burn her yet!

 

[Chirko]

Don't buy the tool pictured above, you would be throwing your money away

Oh yeah. That's what I'll do. Somewhere lying wrench on 36 mm. I want to do a repair fan impeller cracks.

did you replace the radiator cap? Loss of pressure at the cap would cause overheating also.

This is true. I had a leaking cap. I added a rubber pad and now all is well.

Any quick advice on this new problem?

perhaps there is leakage quick-coupling connection. I struggled for a long time with this problem. Perhaps worn clutch slave cylinder.

 

[2stroke]

The transmission could have worn synchronizes, or it could be a clutch release issue. Hopefully you have been changing the tranny fluid regularly.

As for the sensors, as I stated, do NOT just replace randomly. That is the worst thing you can do right now. Every sensor can be tested, or it could even be a wire. The chances of a bad ECT sensor causing an engine not to run are slim. When those go bad, you more or less see a drop in gas mileage. You can see hot or cold starting issues, but I doubt it would cause it to not start at all one second, and jump to life the next. To fix your problem you will need a multimeter. As I stated, the coil pack is suspect, but the only other things I can think of that would cause this are a bad fuel pump (which you stated you replaced), a bad camshaft syncronizer/sensor, bad crankshaft position sensor, or a wiring problem (either a bad wire, or bad ground). You need to test both those sensors as well as the coil pack. Look carefully at the all three for cracks, corrosion, or other problems. If they all check out, its time to test the wires. Its a good Idea to buy an EVTM, but if needed, I can post some pictures.

 

[TreDen]

Hey guys, thanks again for all the info. I have a trip from MI to FL tomorrow and I am going to take the explorer and I am very confident that she will make it just fine.

I did find something out today, and this is probably the most important question I will ask...

I found a place in the engine where it is sucking air into the engine, a vacuum seal issue. I can hear it hissing.

I think there used to be a hose that ran to this attachment and I can only figure it has never been on but I would like to make sure.

I will post a picture tomorrow, but if you can bare with me. It's a 1992 explorer 5-speed. If you are standing looking at the engine, I changed the ECT sensor today. Above that gauge is a little piece of metal that comes down that is sucking air with no hose attached.

It comes off right under of the Throttle Sensor. The steering fuel pump is below, and the manifold with the sensor is above. Coming out under the throttle sensor is this piece that is sucking air. After some research I think it might be a missing hose that connects between the CANP solenoid and the Charcoal canister....I have no idea. Let me know if I have to post some pics, otherwise, I take off for FL tomorrow and I will let you know if I make it!!

Thanks again folks.

 

[natenkiki2004]

You are correct, that is the vacuum nipple that goes to the charcoal canister with the solenoid in-between. Find some generic vacuum hose to connect the two, most any auto parts store would have it.

 

[TreDen]

Thank you, so how will this affect the truck, I have to think it hasn't been on for a very long time. I'm going to go and try to attach it tomorrow. So, it goes from the piece of metal that shoots down, to the solenoid, to the canister to the vacuum area in the back of the engine that has like 5 hubs on it? I'm sorry, I wish I was more knowledgeable about the names.