Suing Ford for Lemon.

[Kstanley87]

Hello,

First post on here, so I apologize if this is in the incorrect spot/format,etc.

So we purchased a 2020 Ford Explorer Limited in May of 2020. We just paid it off, but also just picked it up from the dealership for the 8th attempt of correcting the Auto Hold System Fault that keeps popping up (among many other continuous issues). We JUST hit 36K miles. I called Ford Corporate a few months ago (around 28k miles on vehicle at that time) to initiate a Ford BuyBack and was denied and told I can reapply in a year. I've since seeked legal consultation and was told after the 4th attempt to correct/fix an issue without success, deems the vehicle a lemon.

My question is, has anyone on here ever sued Ford after a similar scenario, and if so, what were the suggested/provided outcomes from legal? I'm just beginning the process, but if they're going to simply offer to purchase the vehicle back for 35k, that would make it unfavorable on our end (spent 56K total) and wouldn't really be worth our time. Just looking for information on outcomes from people who have went through a similar scenario. I've heard of someone getting 15k knocked off the purchase price, which would be nice for short term, but would prefer MSRP to MSRP swap into a 22 explorer to see if they've lined out the issues. (hopeful).

Just in case anyone is wondering, the issues we've dealt with so far are:

recalled transmission inter-cooler: replaced
Harsh shifting transmission: rebuilt transmission
Blue backup screen:reprogrammed, and replaced rear camera
Heat stopped working on passenger side, but would work on driver side: Replaced heater core
Auto Hold System Fault: replaced actuators 3 times, reprogrammed 5 times.
Vehicle lunges forward or backward with no brakes when putting it in drive or reverse: couldn't replicate at dealership
Bluetooth connects and disconnects while driving long distances: was told it is our phones, couldn't duplicate. updated software.
Heat not blowing from headliner vents in 2nd row: apparently, it's not supposed to, only AC. heat only blows from under 2nd row seat
Deep sleep mode activated, remote features disabled: updated software
4wd fault: replaced speed sensor
Drive mode not available when it was in Drive: couldn't replicate.

I've got 66 photos on my phone of all the warnings on dash with mileage/dates for the service tech to send to ford if they couldn't replicate as "proof." I was told that would be sufficient if the problem persists and they aren't able to replicate.

Thanks!

-Keith

 

[SteveAZ]

My God, I feel lucky! I finally got so pissed I just went across the street, literally, and bought a lincoln. Haven't had any trouble since. I had the 2020 Platinum for 2 years and it spent 90 days in the shop. I say, Keith, trade the clunker now while used car prices are high, buy another 22 Ford or look elsewhere. Life is good now, and looking back, I wasted a lot of time and spent too much time being angry. Life is too short to put up with this kind of crap.
Steve

 

[Kstanley87]

My God, I feel lucky! I finally got so pissed I just went across the street, literally, and bought a lincoln. Haven't had any trouble since. I had the 2020 Platinum for 2 years and it spent 90 days in the shop. I say, Keith, trade the clunker now while used car prices are high, buy another 22 Ford or look elsewhere. Life is good now, and looking back, I wasted a lot of time and spent too much time being angry. Life is too short to put up with this kind of crap.
Steve

Nice! Glad it worked out in your favor! We love the 6th gen Explorer. It's our favorite out of all the SUV's we've looked at but don't enjoy taking it to the shop so often. I appreciate the advice!

 

[Spacey]

You should contact the BBB in your area and check what KY lemon laws are. It may be simpler to use the BBB handled lemon process than getting a lawyer and suing. But if there are lawyers in your area that handle lemon claims it probably can't hurt to contact one and see what they could do for you.

Just my opinion, but I think these are some of the worst new cars built. Mine has "only" had numerous stupid annoying glitches and repeated transient failures rather than outright failures that leave you stranded, but I don't trust it and expect it to leave me on the side of the road at the most inopportune time. Wish I'd never bought it. A friend also had a 2020 and finally just dumped it after all the problems he had.

 

[hbalek]

You should contact the BBB in your area and check what KY lemon laws are. It may be simpler to use the BBB handled lemon process than getting a lawyer and suing. But if there are lawyers in your area that handle lemon claims it probably can't hurt to contact one and see what they could do for you.

Just my opinion, but I think these are some of the worst new cars built. Mine has "only" had numerous stupid annoying glitches and repeated transient failures rather than outright failures that leave you stranded, but I don't trust it and expect it to leave me on the side of the road at the most inopportune time. Wish I'd never bought it. A friend also had a 2020 and finally just dumped it after all the problems he had.

It's a damn shame because it's such an attractive, fun car to drive but all the little and big problems and annoyances and even scary moments. Kinda like my first ex! LOL

 

[J_C]

Never buy the first year of a substantially redesigned vehicle.

Contact a lemon law attorney in your area to get a free, first consultation. AFAIK, none of your hopes are options through a lawsuit, only return of purchase price... definitely not they give you a '22 in exchange for your '20. That would have to be something negotiated with a Ford rep. before it comes to a lawsuit.

What did Ford Corp state when they claimed you were denied but could reapply in a year? That seems strange and is not how it works unless I am overlooking something.

How did you manage to 'sink $56K into a $35K (??) vehicle?!! Whatever the reason, that's not Ford's problem but it is yours to sue or find a 3rd party to buy it off of you as-is. You need the attorney, doubt BBB alone is going to be able to negotiate favorably for you if there is any wiggle room to be had.

I know of a lemon law attorney who happens to own/owned multiple explorers, may even be a member of this forum. Anyway he doesn't practice in KY but might be willing to give you a general overview of your realistic options, unless not practicing in KY makes him avoid Specific Legal Advice, but worth a shot since he's into Explorers. He might know of someone good in KY too:

Michigan Lemon Law Attorney - Law Office of Steve Lehto

Michigan Lemon Law Attorney Steve Lehto has been practicing Lemon Law and Consumer Protection for 23 years.

lehtoslaw.com

 

[peterk9]

Hello,

First post on here, so I apologize if this is in the incorrect spot/format,etc.

So we purchased a 2020 Ford Explorer Limited in May of 2020. We just paid it off, but also just picked it up from the dealership for the 8th attempt of correcting the Auto Hold System Fault that keeps popping up (among many other continuous issues). We JUST hit 36K miles. I called Ford Corporate a few months ago (around 28k miles on vehicle at that time) to initiate a Ford BuyBack and was denied and told I can reapply in a year. I've since seeked legal consultation and was told after the 4th attempt to correct/fix an issue without success, deems the vehicle a lemon.

My question is, has anyone on here ever sued Ford after a similar scenario, and if so, what were the suggested/provided outcomes from legal? I'm just beginning the process, but if they're going to simply offer to purchase the vehicle back for 35k, that would make it unfavorable on our end (spent 56K total) and wouldn't really be worth our time. Just looking for information on outcomes from people who have went through a similar scenario. I've heard of someone getting 15k knocked off the purchase price, which would be nice for short term, but would prefer MSRP to MSRP swap into a 22 explorer to see if they've lined out the issues. (hopeful).
........................................................................................

Welcome to the Forum Keith.
You didn't need to get advice since the Kentucky Lemon Law would have informed you of the same thing.

https://home.army.mil/knox/application/files/9115/6623/5547/KY_LL.pdf#:~:text=Kentucky's%20lemon%20law%20protects%20consumers,certain%20defects%20with%20the%20vehicle.

Buyback

The dealer said that the explorer will not be repaired in time and is certain the buyback will occur. Nov. 2nd is lemon law 30 day requirement. Dealer stated that they can buyback or offer an extended warranty for free if I wanted to keep the explorer. I liked the ST but the clunking has to...

www.explorerforum.com

Buyback - Finally a possible out

I've posted a few times about my 2020 XLT having a bunch of issues with electrical, transmission, and suspension. It's been frustrating since May 2020 when I bought this vehicle. I'd been to the shop a few times and was told the transmission issue was my "aggressive driving." Finally, a tech...

www.explorerforum.com

Good luck and please report back. Thanks.

Peter

 

[fast_dave]

Just sayin'

With all those problems, and if you're PAYING a lawyer UPFRONT, and in it all urgently need a RELIABLE daily driver, sell it to Carvana and move on.

Seriously, the only guy that's happy in this dragged out saga of an obvious LEMON is the lawyer that's on your "payroll".

 

[Kstanley87]

Welcome to the Forum Keith.
You didn't need to get advice since the Kentucky Lemon Law would have informed you of the same thing.

https://home.army.mil/knox/application/files/9115/6623/5547/KY_LL.pdf#:~:text=Kentucky's%20lemon%20law%20protects%20consumers,certain%20defects%20with%20the%20vehicle.

Buyback

The dealer said that the explorer will not be repaired in time and is certain the buyback will occur. Nov. 2nd is lemon law 30 day requirement. Dealer stated that they can buyback or offer an extended warranty for free if I wanted to keep the explorer. I liked the ST but the clunking has to...

www.explorerforum.com

Buyback - Finally a possible out

I've posted a few times about my 2020 XLT having a bunch of issues with electrical, transmission, and suspension. It's been frustrating since May 2020 when I bought this vehicle. I'd been to the shop a few times and was told the transmission issue was my "aggressive driving." Finally, a tech...

www.explorerforum.com

Good luck and please report back. Thanks.

Peter

The thing that I'm unsure of is, the issue started at 4k miles, but has been ongoing the life of the basic bumper to bumper warranty. It wasn't in the shop 4 times for the same issue prior to the 12K mile/1 year mark. I picked up the service records and over the 2 years of ownership, since 4k miles, I've had it in the shop 8 times for the Auto Hold System Fault, which has yet to be corrected. The attorney I spoke with said they would file it as a Magnuson Moss suit (as far as I understand). I won't hear back for a couple weeks and was looking for people who have went through legal representation with Ford and what their outcome was. Thank you for the information!

 

[Kstanley87]

Never buy the first year of a substantially redesigned vehicle.

Contact a lemon law attorney in your area to get a free, first consultation. AFAIK, none of your hopes are options through a lawsuit, only return of purchase price... definitely not they give you a '22 in exchange for your '20. That would have to be something negotiated with a Ford rep. before it comes to a lawsuit.

What did Ford Corp state when they claimed you were denied but could reapply in a year? That seems strange and is not how it works unless I am overlooking something.

How did you manage to 'sink $56K into a $35K (??) vehicle?!! Whatever the reason, that's not Ford's problem but it is yours to sue or find a 3rd party to buy it off of you as-is. You need the attorney, doubt BBB alone is going to be able to negotiate favorably for you if there is any wiggle room to be had.

I know of a lemon law attorney who happens to own/owned multiple explorers, may even be a member of this forum. Anyway he doesn't practice in KY but might be willing to give you a general overview of your realistic options, unless not practicing in KY makes him avoid Specific Legal Advice, but worth a shot since he's into Explorers. He might know of someone good in KY too:

Michigan Lemon Law Attorney - Law Office of Steve Lehto

Michigan Lemon Law Attorney Steve Lehto has been practicing Lemon Law and Consumer Protection for 23 years.

lehtoslaw.com

MSRP on the explorer Limited was 54,240 I believe. What I meant was, if they decide to buy it back for 35K due to 2 years old and mileage (36K) then it wouldn't be in our best interest. Preferably looking for MSRP to MSRP swap.

The rep that I spoke with when filing the Buyback claim with Ford said I would get a letter in the mail in about a week with their decision. The decision was it didn't meet their buyback standards and I could reapply for buyback in a year. I believe because KY lemon law is 1 year and 12K miles, but I am uncertain. The rep said people can only apply for buyback program once every 12 months.

Yeah, I like Edit (Steve Lehto, my memory failed me!) Mike Lehto! I watch his videos all the time!

I appreciate the feedback! Thanks.

 

[fast_dave]

Again, just sayin'

I read the Kentucky Buy Back Laws in Post 7, and offer up the following free advice looking at your situation from "the outside in".

The longer you wait to dump it on a service like Carvana, the older the Ex gets, the more miles it racks up, and the more it depreciates.

Right now, since you wrote that you now own it/it's paid off, given the current used car price craze, you're likely to at least break even, if not make a few bucks.

Let Carvana pick it up in your driveway, and drive it off to their sales center, problem solved = one and done...

I'm in the camp that has seen that the first year releases from Chicago Assembly Plant were a roll of the dice, and the lemons never get fixed to the original owner's satisfaction...

For all the problems you listed, I'd say get your lawyer off of your payroll, vote with your wallet and move on/change brands.

Send FORD Corporate a pic of you standing next to your new ride, from another manufacturer.

FORD has 100's of lawyers on their payroll, and FORD has a bigger wallet.

Stay on the path your on, weeks will turn into months, your lawyer will fill you with "hope-i-um", and your Ex will keep visiting the dealership, racking up miles, depreciating in value, yada, yada, yada...

Good luck and keep us in the loop -

 

[blwnsmoke]

Kentucky is one of the worst states for a lemon law. Basically you have zero ground to sue as you are only protected for 1 yr and 12k. Being you are well beyond 1 year and well beyond 12k.. I don't see much happening besides attorney fees.

From Kentucky's Lemon Law info:


Vehicles Covered

All vehicles except conversion vans, motor homes, mopeds, motorcycles, farm machinery and vehicles with more than 2 axles.

Repair Interval and Coverage Period

• 4 repair attempts or 30 days out of service.
• 1 year or 12,000 miles.

On edit, I should have read further down to see this was posted already.

To add, there will not be a MSRP to MSRP swap. You will be charged mileage/usage.

Example from someone who went through it. Their mileage divided by 120,000 x the mileage. So for you, 36,000/120000 = $0.30 per mile.

But typically this is lemon law, not MM. Good luck with the MM lawsuit. Keep us posted if the outcome.

 

[pwscott]

I was helped greatly and very professionally by the Vermont Lemon Law Board. They provided clear instructions on what I should be documenting and how to file the complaint. While I had access to a lawyer friend if needed, I never had a need for a lawyer to make the Lemon Law filing. My 2020 ExplorerST was never able to have reliable SiriusXM data and often got 'stuck' on a given XM channel and could not be changed or volume adjusted or phone call answered on BT. Ford made 6 attempts to resolve it and I gave them 6 months to fix it with a promised firmware upgrade.
They tried replacing various modules, APIM , etc and downgraded and upgraded firmware to no avail...problem kept returning and you had to either fully power off the car and open the door and restart or hold down Volume and '>>' for 15 seconds to reboot the system underway.
Anyway, Ford agreed to settle with me without even having the hearing. There's a formula ion the state and federal laws prescribing how they calculate the buyback.
What I asked for was a buyback and for Ford to prioritize my new build of a 2022 ST. I then took over an order already placed by a dealer locally that was exactly what I wanted....Stone Blue, Street Pack, Sunroof, etc. They built it January 9th and it just arrived this week in NH for me to pick up. Hopefully your state board can be as helpful in guiding you.

 

[Spacey]

You are lucky. Having a State operated board to assist citizens is not common. Most states have laws in place with varying levels of support for their citizens with a lemon complaint. Some aren't at all helpful for the claimant and those folks end up stuck owning a lemon vehicle, or eat the cost when they finally have to dump it.