Suing Ford for Lemon - Lemon Law | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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Billy Dunwoody

Well-Known Member
Joined
September 3, 2017
Messages
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Location
Culver City, CA
City, State
Culver City, CA
Year, Model & Trim Level
2020 Explorer XLT
2020 Explorer with 17k miles on it, starting the lemon process because it’s been in the repair shop for over 40 days, this time needed a whole new transmission. The first repair was done with 700 miles on the odometer and was the back two doors needing to be repainted. Couple questions for those who have had Ford buyback their car:
1. Did you get the value of the car at the first repair date? I live in California and the first repair date was 700 miles but had nothing to do with the latest transmission repair that put it over the 30 day mark to qualify.
2. Was anyone able to get Ford to waive or reduce negative equity or able to get Ford to pay penalties beyond what you owed?
The reason I ask this is because an attorney is telling me that I can get penalties in addition to my loan being paid off without having to sue and Ford will pay his fees as opposed to me going after Ford in a lemon myself
 



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A buy back and a lemon law are two different things. I don’t believe they owe you more than the payoff.

Why would they?

I also don’t believe they are gonna pay any lawyers fees.
 






A buy back and a lemon law are two different things. I don’t believe they owe you more than the payoff.

Why would they?

I also don’t believe they are gonna pay any lawyers fees.
Lemon law states that any vehicle with less than 18,000 miles on it and been in the shop for more than 30 days qualifies for a lemon where Ford has to either buy the vehicle back from you or put you in a new similar vehicle. I don’t want another Explorer, so I would go with them buying it back/paying off the loan. The penalties, at least what was told to me, is for the time and hassle for being in the repair shop so much. This is why I will consult with many different attornies and also trying to find people who have had their Explorers bought back by Ford
 






I will tell you How it typically works but states have different laws so how it works in one state isn't how it can work in another.

Typically Ford will give you back your purchase price less a per mile charge. It going based on the first in service mile is typically when it is the same repair multiple times that makes it qualify, not separate issues over the course of mileage.

Attorneys fees can be covered, interest can be covered, extras you had installed can be covered. Again, you need to know your states lemon law. A Google search should tell you.

As far as "damages", I disagree with that but I'm not an attorney.
 






I will tell you How it typically works but states have different laws so how it works in one state isn't how it can work in another.

Typically Ford will give you back your purchase price less a per mile charge. It going based on the first in service mile is typically when it is the same repair multiple times that makes it qualify, not separate issues over the course of mileage.

Attorneys fees can be covered, interest can be covered, extras you had installed can be covered. Again, you need to know your states lemon law. A Google search should tell you.

As far as "damages", I disagree with that but I'm not an attorney.
Thanks! What if it is multiple different repairs? It’s been the paint (700 miles), the seat (4000 miles) and the transmission (17000 miles), all three occuring at different times but together puts it over the 30day mark in California
 






Thanks! What if it is multiple different repairs? It’s been the paint (700 miles), the seat (4000 miles) and the transmission (17000 miles), all three occuring at different times but together puts it over the 30day mark in California
I believe mileage goes by multiple repairs of the same issue, not different. And some states don't count first service etc, that it's based off of last repair mileage. So again, you need to know your own laws unfortunately.
 






I believe mileage goes by multiple repairs of the same issue, not different. And some states don't count first service etc, that it's based off of last repair mileage. So again, you need to know your own laws unfortunately.
Thanks. Actually, the seat has been documented twice being fixed and still squeaks and that was also at 700 miles looking at the invoice so we are good!
 






Thanks. Actually, the seat has been documented twice being fixed and still squeaks and that was also at 700 miles looking at the invoice so we are good!
From CA, your mileage will be based on the transmission issue since that's what triggered the lemon law.

"The California lemon law provides that the manufacturer must refund to the purchaser
the following amounts when repurchasing an owned vehicle under the lemon law:
1. Purchase price. The actual price paid for the vehicle, including any charges for
transportation and manufacturer-installed options, but not including charges for
nonmanufacturer items installed by a dealer or the consumer;
2. Collateral charges. Official fees associated with the sale of the vehicle, including
sales tax, license fees, and registration fees; and
3. Incidental damages. Reasonable expenses incident to the vehicle problem for which
the manufacturer is repurchasing the vehicle, not including charges for which the
consumer is justly responsible. Incidental damages include but are not limited to the
following:
 Reasonable repair, towing and rental car costs actually incurred by the
consumer.
 Prepayment penalties, early termination charges and earned finance charges, if
actually paid, incurred, or to be incurred by the consumer.
The California lemon law, and regulations issued by the state to further explain lemon
law requirements, provide that an arbitrator may make a deduction for the buyer’s use
of the vehicle by using the following formula:
# miles driven by the consumer prior to first
use delivery to the manufacturer/dealer for repair purchase
deduction = of the nonconformity that led to the repurchase X price
120,000"
 






Hello,

First post on here, so I apologize if this is in the incorrect spot/format,etc.

So we purchased a 2020 Ford Explorer Limited in May of 2020. We just paid it off, but also just picked it up from the dealership for the 8th attempt of correcting the Auto Hold System Fault that keeps popping up (among many other continuous issues). We JUST hit 36K miles. I called Ford Corporate a few months ago (around 28k miles on vehicle at that time) to initiate a Ford BuyBack and was denied and told I can reapply in a year. I've since seeked legal consultation and was told after the 4th attempt to correct/fix an issue without success, deems the vehicle a lemon.

My question is, has anyone on here ever sued Ford after a similar scenario, and if so, what were the suggested/provided outcomes from legal? I'm just beginning the process, but if they're going to simply offer to purchase the vehicle back for 35k, that would make it unfavorable on our end (spent 56K total) and wouldn't really be worth our time. Just looking for information on outcomes from people who have went through a similar scenario. I've heard of someone getting 15k knocked off the purchase price, which would be nice for short term, but would prefer MSRP to MSRP swap into a 22 explorer to see if they've lined out the issues. (hopeful).

Just in case anyone is wondering, the issues we've dealt with so far are:

recalled transmission inter-cooler: replaced
Harsh shifting transmission: rebuilt transmission
Blue backup screen:reprogrammed, and replaced rear camera
Heat stopped working on passenger side, but would work on driver side: Replaced heater core
Auto Hold System Fault: replaced actuators 3 times, reprogrammed 5 times.
Vehicle lunges forward or backward with no brakes when putting it in drive or reverse: couldn't replicate at dealership
Bluetooth connects and disconnects while driving long distances: was told it is our phones, couldn't duplicate. updated software.
Heat not blowing from headliner vents in 2nd row: apparently, it's not supposed to, only AC. heat only blows from under 2nd row seat
Deep sleep mode activated, remote features disabled: updated software
4wd fault: replaced speed sensor
Drive mode not available when it was in Drive: couldn't replicate.

I've got 66 photos on my phone of all the warnings on dash with mileage/dates for the service tech to send to ford if they couldn't replicate as "proof." I was told that would be sufficient if the problem persists and they aren't able to replicate.

Thanks!

-Keith
 






My God, I feel lucky! I finally got so pissed I just went across the street, literally, and bought a lincoln. Haven't had any trouble since. I had the 2020 Platinum for 2 years and it spent 90 days in the shop. I say, Keith, trade the clunker now while used car prices are high, buy another 22 Ford or look elsewhere. Life is good now, and looking back, I wasted a lot of time and spent too much time being angry. Life is too short to put up with this kind of crap.
Steve
 






My God, I feel lucky! I finally got so pissed I just went across the street, literally, and bought a lincoln. Haven't had any trouble since. I had the 2020 Platinum for 2 years and it spent 90 days in the shop. I say, Keith, trade the clunker now while used car prices are high, buy another 22 Ford or look elsewhere. Life is good now, and looking back, I wasted a lot of time and spent too much time being angry. Life is too short to put up with this kind of crap.
Steve
Nice! Glad it worked out in your favor! We love the 6th gen Explorer. It's our favorite out of all the SUV's we've looked at but don't enjoy taking it to the shop so often. I appreciate the advice!
 






You should contact the BBB in your area and check what KY lemon laws are. It may be simpler to use the BBB handled lemon process than getting a lawyer and suing. But if there are lawyers in your area that handle lemon claims it probably can't hurt to contact one and see what they could do for you.

Just my opinion, but I think these are some of the worst new cars built. Mine has "only" had numerous stupid annoying glitches and repeated transient failures rather than outright failures that leave you stranded, but I don't trust it and expect it to leave me on the side of the road at the most inopportune time. Wish I'd never bought it. A friend also had a 2020 and finally just dumped it after all the problems he had.
 






You should contact the BBB in your area and check what KY lemon laws are. It may be simpler to use the BBB handled lemon process than getting a lawyer and suing. But if there are lawyers in your area that handle lemon claims it probably can't hurt to contact one and see what they could do for you.

Just my opinion, but I think these are some of the worst new cars built. Mine has "only" had numerous stupid annoying glitches and repeated transient failures rather than outright failures that leave you stranded, but I don't trust it and expect it to leave me on the side of the road at the most inopportune time. Wish I'd never bought it. A friend also had a 2020 and finally just dumped it after all the problems he had.
It's a damn shame because it's such an attractive, fun car to drive but all the little and big problems and annoyances and even scary moments. Kinda like my first ex! LOL
 






Never buy the first year of a substantially redesigned vehicle. ;)

Contact a lemon law attorney in your area to get a free, first consultation. AFAIK, none of your hopes are options through a lawsuit, only return of purchase price... definitely not they give you a '22 in exchange for your '20. That would have to be something negotiated with a Ford rep. before it comes to a lawsuit.

What did Ford Corp state when they claimed you were denied but could reapply in a year? That seems strange and is not how it works unless I am overlooking something.

How did you manage to 'sink $56K into a $35K (??) vehicle?!! Whatever the reason, that's not Ford's problem but it is yours to sue or find a 3rd party to buy it off of you as-is. You need the attorney, doubt BBB alone is going to be able to negotiate favorably for you if there is any wiggle room to be had.

I know of a lemon law attorney who happens to own/owned multiple explorers, may even be a member of this forum. Anyway he doesn't practice in KY but might be willing to give you a general overview of your realistic options, unless not practicing in KY makes him avoid Specific Legal Advice, but worth a shot since he's into Explorers. He might know of someone good in KY too:

 






Hello,

First post on here, so I apologize if this is in the incorrect spot/format,etc.

So we purchased a 2020 Ford Explorer Limited in May of 2020. We just paid it off, but also just picked it up from the dealership for the 8th attempt of correcting the Auto Hold System Fault that keeps popping up (among many other continuous issues). We JUST hit 36K miles. I called Ford Corporate a few months ago (around 28k miles on vehicle at that time) to initiate a Ford BuyBack and was denied and told I can reapply in a year. I've since seeked legal consultation and was told after the 4th attempt to correct/fix an issue without success, deems the vehicle a lemon.

My question is, has anyone on here ever sued Ford after a similar scenario, and if so, what were the suggested/provided outcomes from legal? I'm just beginning the process, but if they're going to simply offer to purchase the vehicle back for 35k, that would make it unfavorable on our end (spent 56K total) and wouldn't really be worth our time. Just looking for information on outcomes from people who have went through a similar scenario. I've heard of someone getting 15k knocked off the purchase price, which would be nice for short term, but would prefer MSRP to MSRP swap into a 22 explorer to see if they've lined out the issues. (hopeful).
........................................................................................
Welcome to the Forum Keith. :wave:
You didn't need to get advice since the Kentucky Lemon Law would have informed you of the same thing.
Good luck and please report back. Thanks.

Peter
 






Just sayin' :)

With all those problems, and if you're PAYING a lawyer UPFRONT, and in it all urgently need a RELIABLE daily driver, sell it to Carvana and move on.

Seriously, the only guy that's happy in this dragged out saga of an obvious LEMON is the lawyer that's on your "payroll".
 






Welcome to the Forum Keith. :wave:
You didn't need to get advice since the Kentucky Lemon Law would have informed you of the same thing.
Good luck and please report back. Thanks.

Peter
The thing that I'm unsure of is, the issue started at 4k miles, but has been ongoing the life of the basic bumper to bumper warranty. It wasn't in the shop 4 times for the same issue prior to the 12K mile/1 year mark. I picked up the service records and over the 2 years of ownership, since 4k miles, I've had it in the shop 8 times for the Auto Hold System Fault, which has yet to be corrected. The attorney I spoke with said they would file it as a Magnuson Moss suit (as far as I understand). I won't hear back for a couple weeks and was looking for people who have went through legal representation with Ford and what their outcome was. Thank you for the information!
 






Never buy the first year of a substantially redesigned vehicle. ;)

Contact a lemon law attorney in your area to get a free, first consultation. AFAIK, none of your hopes are options through a lawsuit, only return of purchase price... definitely not they give you a '22 in exchange for your '20. That would have to be something negotiated with a Ford rep. before it comes to a lawsuit.

What did Ford Corp state when they claimed you were denied but could reapply in a year? That seems strange and is not how it works unless I am overlooking something.

How did you manage to 'sink $56K into a $35K (??) vehicle?!! Whatever the reason, that's not Ford's problem but it is yours to sue or find a 3rd party to buy it off of you as-is. You need the attorney, doubt BBB alone is going to be able to negotiate favorably for you if there is any wiggle room to be had.

I know of a lemon law attorney who happens to own/owned multiple explorers, may even be a member of this forum. Anyway he doesn't practice in KY but might be willing to give you a general overview of your realistic options, unless not practicing in KY makes him avoid Specific Legal Advice, but worth a shot since he's into Explorers. He might know of someone good in KY too:

MSRP on the explorer Limited was 54,240 I believe. What I meant was, if they decide to buy it back for 35K due to 2 years old and mileage (36K) then it wouldn't be in our best interest. Preferably looking for MSRP to MSRP swap.

The rep that I spoke with when filing the Buyback claim with Ford said I would get a letter in the mail in about a week with their decision. The decision was it didn't meet their buyback standards and I could reapply for buyback in a year. I believe because KY lemon law is 1 year and 12K miles, but I am uncertain. The rep said people can only apply for buyback program once every 12 months.

Yeah, I like Edit (Steve Lehto, my memory failed me!) Mike Lehto! I watch his videos all the time!

I appreciate the feedback! Thanks.
 






Again, just sayin'

I read the Kentucky Buy Back Laws in Post 7, and offer up the following free advice looking at your situation from "the outside in".

The longer you wait to dump it on a service like Carvana, the older the Ex gets, the more miles it racks up, and the more it depreciates.

Right now, since you wrote that you now own it/it's paid off, given the current used car price craze, you're likely to at least break even, if not make a few bucks.

Let Carvana pick it up in your driveway, and drive it off to their sales center, problem solved = one and done...

I'm in the camp that has seen that the first year releases from Chicago Assembly Plant were a roll of the dice, and the lemons never get fixed to the original owner's satisfaction...

For all the problems you listed, I'd say get your lawyer off of your payroll, vote with your wallet and move on/change brands.

Send FORD Corporate a pic of you standing next to your new ride, from another manufacturer. :cool:

FORD has 100's of lawyers on their payroll, and FORD has a bigger wallet.

Stay on the path your on, weeks will turn into months, your lawyer will fill you with "hope-i-um", and your Ex will keep visiting the dealership, racking up miles, depreciating in value, yada, yada, yada...

Good luck and keep us in the loop -
 



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Kentucky is one of the worst states for a lemon law. Basically you have zero ground to sue as you are only protected for 1 yr and 12k. Being you are well beyond 1 year and well beyond 12k.. I don't see much happening besides attorney fees.

From Kentucky's Lemon Law info:


Vehicles Covered

All vehicles except conversion vans, motor homes, mopeds, motorcycles, farm machinery and vehicles with more than 2 axles.

Repair Interval and Coverage Period

  • 4 repair attempts or 30 days out of service.
  • 1 year or 12,000 miles.

On edit, I should have read further down to see this was posted already.

To add, there will not be a MSRP to MSRP swap. You will be charged mileage/usage.

Example from someone who went through it. Their mileage divided by 120,000 x the mileage. So for you, 36,000/120000 = $0.30 per mile.

But typically this is lemon law, not MM. Good luck with the MM lawsuit. Keep us posted if the outcome.
 






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