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Sunroof motor connections


skoville

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Hi gang. I have a feeling I'm going about this the wrong way. The sunroof motor has 3 wires. Red in the middle and blue on one side and brown on the other. The motor is out and my thought was ; red=positive; blue=close; brown=open. (Or vice versa) I'm getting the impression that the switch comes into play to swap the leads to reverse the power. The console is from a 1999 Ext a little concerned about burning something out. I just got this motor from EBay so it probably has a better chance of being good than my old one. I read along the way about there being a delay but 10 seconds would be enough time to fry something.
Am I overthinking this? I didn't even know the sunroof opened. All that was there was the motor and the plug with the 3 wires. No connection to go to. My thought was to run a wire to a tap in the fuse panel and ground the unit, or ground one of the wires. I'm seriously thinking about welding the gear to a speed wrench and happily crank it open and closed. I would like to use the switch and have the extra map lights. Not really concerned about not having the compass, temp modes working. How or why the harness was removed I don't know. There are wires cut or missing everywhere. I think there must have been a short somewhere and his solution was to cut/remove wires until it was good enough to sell. I have to admit it runs great, hasn't burnt or leaked a drop of oil and I like it.
Any ideas?
 


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J_C

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I don't know exactly what I'm looking at on the attached wiring diagram. Is there a solid state controller that's missing from yours?

Anyway the solid red wire looks like it goes to the switch, not power, and you are missing two wires that supply power.

sunroof.png
 




skoville

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Hi, J_C. A bunch of thanks for the brain work.
Now if I can get the post together to make any sense.:snicker:
Anyway the solid red wire looks like it goes to the switch, not power, and you are missing two wires that supply power.
I believe your right about the red wire. I think the switch flip flops the current to change the rotation. That would be the other 2 wires with the switch controlling it.
[/url][/IMG] [/img]

Between your schematic of the motor and the one of the console...

I may have a fighting chance.:crazy:



The motor only has the 3 wires. I cannot find any connection cable under the headliner. Found wires for the vanity lights. I wish the former owner wasn't such a jerk I'd like to ask why he pulled out any wiring. I'm guessing there was a short somewhere and it got taken to the extreme.:dunno:
[/url][/IMG] [/img]
The white portion has a relay (you can hear it clicking) and a small red box. I think the that's the controller. As far as I know the purpose of a solid state Microprocessor would be for the compass, temperature, and whatever else is in the "MODE" window which wouldn't be in a 1997 Explorer.
Well, we will have fun anyway.:frustrated:
Thanks again. I think it's going to be helpful.


Too tired to fine tune the post, I think you get it though. The circled portion, I think, is the the flip flop instead of trying to go directly to the motor.
 








skoville

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There are only 3 wires from the switch and 3 on the motor. Where I would supply power or which wire goes where I don't know. I know I would have to supply power to one of the wires (I think the black)The schematics don't help. This is a 1999 console and I doubt my 1997 had any temp/compass extras. There was nothing under the headliner to attach anything to.
 




J_C

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At this point I would do some experimentation without wiring it into the vehicle yet. I'd connect a 12V power source to the brown motor wire (the middle wire in your motor picture "looks" brown from here, or purple, or something), then jumper the red motor wire to ground and assuming it spins, note the direction it spins.

Next I'd remove the red wire jumper and jumper the blue wire to ground, hoping it spins the opposite direction. If it does then the hookup should be pretty straightforward, motor blue to switch blue, motor red to switch red, switch black to ground, and motor brown to the missing 12V supply.

Where to get the missing 12V supply, it's up to you if you want to be able to power it when ignition and/or accessories are off. Stock on the diagram was either tapped into the wire entering, or leaving the accessory delay relay, though whatever is going to power the pair of console lights could do that too.

Before wiring it permanently you could also test the switch with a multimeter in continuity or resistance mode, without the switch hooked up to anything yet. If the above is correct, in one switch position it should short the blue wire to black but not the red (red not shorted to either blue or black). In the other switch position it should short the red wire to black but not the blue.
 




skoville

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Many thanks J_C. I'm sure the diagrams will com in handy.
I've tried many combinations, including your suggestions. I either get nothing, solenoid clicking, or get it to actually turn. May have to make another trip to the bone or tear one of these apart
 




skoville

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By golly, I think that did it. The power supply I'm using is one of those emergency Power Pacts that just didn't have enough charge in it. at least it's going back and forth now, from the switch. Unless the motor is just tired. Well...clockwise, anyway.
 




skoville

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Well, I'm at a loss. Yesterday it was working off the switch both ways. Left it to finish today and it did nothing. If I manually rotate the shaft it works. As soon as you stop it's dead again. I'm guessing both units have a dead spot in the motor. I bought the cheapest one on ebay, but I can't see buying one for $190 or so. Thanks all for the reply's.
 




J_C

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You could take your pick of which one to pry open and inspect brushes, commutator, measure for winding resistance. Don't know how they're held together, if bent tabs instead of welds then it's a lot easier to get back together.
 




skoville

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We're thinking alike. That's what I'm doing next. Just spotted a whole sunroof assemble for $175. I don't even want to look up what shipping would cost from Ohio.
 




skoville

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Doing some Google hopping I ran across a post where the guy said he uses a allen wrench to open/close his sunroof. There's a plastic torx fitting in the side of the motor, that must be it. Before I run out and buy a torx set has anyone used this?
 




J_C

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^ You mean the guy did that once to get a stuck open sunroof closed or he does it regularly to open/close it? Seems like it would be a PITA to me, though come to think of it, I may not have opened mine in years. I'd also wonder how well the aged plastic working an aged sunroof mechanism would hold up.

Heh I probably ought to run mine open and shut a few times just to spread the grease around but maybe wait until the rainy season is over in case it gets stuck open.
 




skoville

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I had a Cougar with a sunroof and didn't use it that often either.
Seems like it would be a PITA to me
Me too. Wondered about the plastic, too. That's why I asked. Really stiff to manually turn. Well tomorrows another day.
 




skoville

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I had a Cougar with a sunroof and didn't use it that often either.

Me too. Wondered about the plastic, too. That's why I asked. Really stiff to manually turn. Well tomorrows another day.
Took the motor,Triad to post images, the brushes. Tried to send images but postimage must be down.
That armature definite low s
spots and T think that's why it's sporatec. I don't it's repairable
 




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