supercharged 5.0 true fire 98 explorer sport

[Turdle]

Our cat misses you already. Now she has to sleep alone.
Powder was taking quite a liking to Tim while he was here. She let him hold her, pet her and even followed him around. She only stares at me.

 

[4pointslow]

Dyno

Tim,
What was the horsepower and Torque before the exhaust?

 

[Dono]

245/320
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234672&page=38

I'm surprised. Only about 4-5hp gain. I wonder if there is differences in how the dyno is reading.
This might warrant another tear down the 1/4

 

[vroomzoomboom]

Our cat misses you already. Now she has to sleep alone.
Powder was taking quite a liking to Tim while he was here. She let him hold her, pet her and even followed him around. She only stares at me.

you forgot even came to me when i called her

Tim,
What was the horsepower and Torque before the exhaust?

jon, what don said. and if you have anything to add that i should change, speak up! lol

245/320
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234672&page=38

I'm surprised. Only about 4-5hp gain. I wonder if there is differences in how the dyno is reading.
This might warrant another tear down the 1/4

there was a change in there dyno this year i am sure of it. last year they said it was going lean in the upper rmps. this year i made a point of asking them while he was still in it, and running it, and he said it was fine. the problem is going to be is that i will have the throttle body on by tomorrow, so i dont know how much that will change things. i will also have the rails, and m112 when i go back to the strip.
also, i went to change what i thought was a failed hanger mount tonight. well, i found out what my clanging was, and also why my one pipe was banging on the body all the way from jons house home. the outlet closest to the passenger side on the muffler is cracked. the good news was i called the shop, and told them the problems that i had before i noticed it split, and his words were "take the hanger back, and bring it here. we have a good rep for our work, and want to keep you happy. if it even means we have to change the muffler, i will do it". looks like i call them in the morning and make a appointment.

 

[Dono]

****ty your having the exhaust issues, but I am definitely happy they are taking care of you. Glenn is a good guy, so I'd expect no less from him.

Your A/F showed a pretty rock solid line. Nice to see. Your kind of what I'd say is a sweet spot on the A/F. James likes to tune for 11.5 wot, but at that ratio, you see some black smoke out the exhaust. Closer to 12 seems to take care of the black fuel smoke, and is still gives a good safety margin.

 

[4pointslow]

Hp

I would like to see what it would do with just the throttlebody on.
Air in air out......
Don't forget the 7 ft lbs of torque increase too. We need torque to get these things moving off the line.
The torque is nice and high but HP could be higher, need more airflow.(fuel system has to keep up as well)
The right Heads and camshaft would increase airflow as well. But $$$$$$.
The M112 will increase airflow too.... will also raise intake air temps.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

jon (Turdle) and i were talking about this, and its still kinda floating around in my mind. the way the egr on these are set up, they go in before the blower, thus throwing hot air into the supercharger even when your not on it. i never thought of it before. i still have mine hooked up. i wounder what kind of difference it would make if i had it programed out so it wont open at all. it is adding heat to everything after all.

 

[ahodges]

11.5 is pretty rich from what I've seen. That is a good safe number for high compression with moderate boost (12psi and higher). With my lower compression and 6psi boost mine is tuned in at 12.3

 

[Dono]

11.5 is pretty rich from what I've seen. That is a good safe number for high compression with moderate boost (12psi and higher). With my lower compression and 6psi boost mine is tuned in at 12.3

Agree'd!
I just know that 11.5 is typically James's target unless otherwise requested.
I know with my v6 m90, we couldn't lean it any more because it needed the cooling effect of the extra fuel to help combat the high intake temps.

Another reason for intercooling. Intercooling makes many issues go away.

 

[ahodges]

I took my EGR off as well. You could plug the vacuum line and turn it off with the SCT programmer.

 

[Dono]

I vote for removing egr also.
Yes, egr does shut off at wot, but it is still adding heat to the rotors at cruising speeds. When you go wot, the rotors are already that much hotter, increasing intake temps.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

i am going to email james sometime next week and ask him to delete the egr from it, unless he has already. it use to throw a 0401 code at me randomly, but hasnt for a while now. that and i called the shop that did the exhaust. it goes in on thursday.
today however was throttle body instal day. for those that havent done one yet (for a 5L, 4L is different), here is something i was thinking when i did mine. luckily i have all of evils stock 5L parts still kicking around, but what i would say is, remove the stock elbow from the upper intake, and also take your throttle cable completely out of the truck. its way easier to do on a bench rather bent over a fender.
what i did was, bolt the new throttle body onto the elbow with the throttle cable bracket and used a cable that i have laying around.



i dont own a welder (even though i can weld) so what i did was make a template using a file folder or stiff cardboard





i used some exhaust pipe i had laying around, put the template on it, and cut the patter out, hammered it flat, then drilled two holes into both the throttle body arm, and part i cut out from the pipe.



instead of cutting a arm off the 5L throttle body, i bought a holley throttle ball kit #20-2 . i think it was around $15. cheaper then a used throttle body from the junk yard, that is if you can find one.



there is four in there (the one i needed i took out already) the one you will need is the second smallest one in the pack.

i put the cable back in the bracket, then the ball in the cable and market where i would have to drill the bracket i made. you might have to go back in and dremel the hole a bit for fine tuning (i did).





then she was done!



the nice thing about doing it this way is your not hacking up the arm. that way later on in life if you want to pull it off, you can still resell it to some random mustang guy
i also was trying to adjust the voltage for the TPS

at idle



WOT



i know it should be at 5 volts. i may play around with it more, i may not. took it for a ride around. it feels like it has a little more low end, but that may also be me hoping this little chunk of alum. made a difference. but it is a night and day difference from the used bbk i had last year (there may also be a reason why the guy was selling it, but i will never know). i also hooked up the scan gauge that i bought at afn. it looks like the tps is reading 96 on wot. i also noticed that it shifts at 4800, unless it did shift higher, and didnt have a chance to display it.
thats it for now. now time to slam back a pizza in the most horrifying violent manner known to mankind.

 

[4pointslow]

Egr

Sorry. You will see no benefit from deleting EGR other than having a cleaner looking engine compartment and less work to do when taking things apart and putting things back together.
Intake air temps are what? My truck with 14 lbs of boost with 9.7 compression the intake air temps are maxing out at 192.

The combustion chamber temps are a whole different story. They are hitting 2500 degrees at 14.7 A/F at cruise. EGR lowers cylinder temps, where it counts, at cruise in the cylinder.

Deleting the EGR will raise cylinder temps above 2500 degrees at cruise, then you are going to mash the pedal and raise the temps more.

I still am using my EGR system. The EGR system and any temperature increase at cruise is insignificant at WOT. EGR is not used at WOT, Dono stated that 100% correct.
Also when EGR is used the cylinder temps are lowered so the pcm can raise spark advance and keep power at cruise where it needs to be and it can run a leaner mixture to save fuel mileage at cruise.
EGR lowers cyl temps. advancing spark timing raises temps, retarding it lowers temps. A rich mixture lowers cyl temps, a lean mixture raises temps.

Also, I am running 11.3 A/F at wot to keep cylinder temps down. And I have a J&S safeguard Vampire and a factory knock sensor with the PCM and Vampire removing timing if knock is detected. I ran 7-8 lbs non intercooled with 11.3. Now at 14-15 lbs still with 11.3. This is for safety of the engine, there are so many things that could go wrong that could change what A/F we are really running, like using fuel that has 10% ethanol which is being forced upon us or an uncalibrated wideband sensor etc. Changing the A/F for minimal horse power gains is not worth losing an engine. Stick with the more air in and out to get more power, stay away from dangerous things that only gain a few HP.

11.5 is safer for non intercooled higher boosted engines, as AHodges already stated. If using lower boost then around 12 might be safe and provide more power.

Sorry if any of this comes off wrong, I am socially retarded, but I know a little about engine performance.

 

[4pointslow]

Tb

Good job on the throttle body work. That bracket added to the TB is genius!
The TB should not go to 5.00 volts. The PCM would see that as a short to voltage.
4.0 volts would be approximate max.
Make sure the plate is opening all the way.
Also what was the TPS readings before at wot. some things in the tune may be based off of TPS.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

wow. thanks jon for both posts. i thought i had read it was suppose to be 5 volts, but knowing what you know and have access to, i am happy with what i have and what its at.

 

[Turdle]

Sorry. You will see no benefit from deleting EGR other than having a cleaner looking engine compartment and less work to do when taking things apart and putting things back together.
Intake air temps are what? My truck with 14 lbs of boost with 9.7 compression the intake air temps are maxing out at 192.

The combustion chamber temps are a whole different story. They are hitting 2500 degrees at 14.7 A/F at cruise. EGR lowers cylinder temps, where it counts, at cruise in the cylinder.

Deleting the EGR will raise cylinder temps above 2500 degrees at cruise, then you are going to mash the pedal and raise the temps more.

I still am using my EGR system. The EGR system and any temperature increase at cruise is insignificant at WOT. EGR is not used at WOT, Dono stated that 100% correct.
Also when EGR is used the cylinder temps are lowered so the pcm can raise spark advance and keep power at cruise where it needs to be and it can run a leaner mixture to save fuel mileage at cruise.
EGR lowers cyl temps. advancing spark timing raises temps, retarding it lowers temps. A rich mixture lowers cyl temps, a lean mixture raises temps.

Also, I am running 11.3 A/F at wot to keep cylinder temps down. And I have a J&S safeguard Vampire and a factory knock sensor with the PCM and Vampire removing timing if knock is detected. I ran 7-8 lbs non intercooled with 11.3. Now at 14-15 lbs still with 11.3. This is for safety of the engine, there are so many things that could go wrong that could change what A/F we are really running, like using fuel that has 10% ethanol which is being forced upon us or an uncalibrated wideband sensor etc. Changing the A/F for minimal horse power gains is not worth losing an engine. Stick with the more air in and out to get more power, stay away from dangerous things that only gain a few HP.

11.5 is safer for non intercooled engines.

Sorry if any of this comes off wrong, I am socially retarded, but I know a little about engine performance.

I have to admit I hadn't considered the beneficial cooling from the EGR during lean trim cruising.

Now I am back on the EGR side of the fence also Tim. Sorry for raising a concern. I will assume the Supercharger manufacturers have lined the rotors with some sort of heat resistant materials for EGR applications.

 

[4pointslow]

Temps

Since everyone is calling me Jon instead of 4pointslow I must tell you it is John. LOL. Not that important.
If cylinder temps are hitting 2500 degrees and higher and 2500 and above causes high NOx levels, when EGR is used then it must be lowering the temps below 2500 degrees to lower NOx emissions. As far as exact temps, I don't know. I was blonde before I started going grey, I don't have a high IQ, and I like to drink on Friday nights.
I wish I was with Tim, that pizza sounds great right about now.

 

[Turdle]

Since everyone is calling me Jon instead of 4pointslow I must tell you it is John.

I get it the other way around all the time--but it could be worse ya know

 

[4pointslow]

lol

I get it the other way around all the time--but it could be worse ya know

half the time I spell it wrong myself. lol.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

i asked ya if you spelt it "jon" or not! lol.
and yes, i know when jon and i where talking, my only argument about a egr was that it must be there for some reason. on the m112 there is a spot for it cast into the body of the blower, otherwise everything else he was saying made a lot of sense.
as for the pizza......."ARRRRRRRRUP"
but jon does BBQ one hell of a good steak.