Tell me when to blow it up :) Idle issue Still

[MadExplorer93]

Ok so here is a very long story cut short and simplified.

Last year i bought this 1993 ford explorer and it always had this COLD STALL IDLE issue.

I cleaned the IAC, MAF and Throttle Body out with proper cleaners like card cleaner that is O2 and Catalatic safe, and for MAF i used PC Part Cleaner. The vehicle got rid of the little rough idle it was having and low RPM = 400prm-500rpm.

The year before i bought it = 2006 (year before) and of course i bought it 2007 last year. The owner change the IAC brand new one from Ford and New Plugs (Champion (YUK) ) and thos plugs are still in the vehicle.

Now here is what happened about 2 weeks ago i was downtown at the mall in my town and the truck was left idling for maybe 5-10min as i took some pictures of Ducks that were in the parking lot.

The vehicle when warm would idle around 600-750 and was fine after doing all my cleaning i did last year. The rough idle NOT oscilating TACH, but a kind of a MISS that can be heard a a pluck,pluck sound in the exhaust pipe, but it is very low and not consistant.

Ok the vehicle was idling like i stated and then all of a sudden i heard the vehicle idle down fast and was running idling really rough a surging Oscilating Tach from 300rpm-700rpm. I thought she was doing the chicken dance and was ready to blow, but it still idle like that. I get into the vehicle again as i was outside it to take pictures and i put it in gear and boy oh boy i felt i was riding a stampede bronco, but how can that be i thought as it was a Explorer, so i figured it was a wild Explorer going nuts out of its ranged environment.

Ok so i take it home and the funny thing it runs like a Bat Out Of Hell lots of power and smooth acceleration no hipcups at all, but when at a light it surging bucking like it thinks its a bronco. When in park samething i think my Explorer is mixed up on what kind of vehicle it really should be.

Ok so i today bought some SEAFOAM first time i ever tried the stuff and i put about 1/3 or so into the cruise control line while the engine is WARM and running and i have to admit i was not ready for all that smoke in my lungs. I smoke as it is and i tell ya the smoke from that SEAFOAM will do me now for 3months time.

Ok back on track i also put some into the Gas Take as that SEAFOAM is great for Injectors too and i thinks me Injectors maybe were dirty/clogged.

Reason for all of this is the Dang thing would be bucking like a bronco since that day 2 weeks ago and i was fed up with it. I also bought some Thottle Body cleaner O2 and Catalatic Safe it is made by GUNK and sprayed that stuff down the throttle while the motor was running and warm.

I took this poor Explorer who thinks its a bucking Bronco for a ride of its life around a few roads and up a few hills and i can tell you the neighbors did look very surprised to see this poor Explorer puffing smoke.

I then take it back to driveway and the IDLE is back to its normalness the IDLE on the TACH that is, but there is still that little MISS i talked about earlier and you can feel and see the motor have a little wiggle to it, almost like it was to do a the Tango with you, but you are afraid to dance with as you make get shocked.

It also stalls still when you let it sit for about 1-3 hours and go start it up the TACH goes to 1500RPM, slowly drops to 1000rpm, slowly drops to 700rpm and then the *%^*&%^& stalls, no sputter, no dying last comments made, just like you turned the key off it stalls. DON'T TELL ME ITS THE IAC as that thing is working. I cleaned the TPS also and did a READ on it and it is in its proper specs.

Now the thing is i don't like Champion and never did like Champion plugs, so i am opting to go buy me some Auto-Lite DP plugs DP= Double Platinum Plugs or the MotorCraft Double Platinum FineWire Plugs same price as the Auto Light DP plugs, but the ford ones are FineWire plugs now.

I think i have a BAD plug, remember they are 2 years old not GOOD shape and i checked the GAP on them last summer and they are .054 GAP which is what they should be at.

I also think i will change the Fuel Filter even though it is 2 years old, but man if there is any crap in it. I do think this maybe my COLD stall issue along with the plug(s).

Conclusion:

- SEAFOAM and thottle cleaner = good TACH idle
- I still have a MISS NOT LOUD remember
- The Vehicle Runs like a BAT OUT OF HELL, lots of pickup and power
- FUEL FILTER maybe clogged
- Injectors will have a nice clean out with that SEAFOAM in tank and i may get another bottle for my next fillup.


Now what is bugging me is the stalling at COLD start any suggestions other then what i stated in my conclusion, does anyone have?

Thks

MadEx93

 

[steventadams]

Check for vacuum leaks... 2 years on plugs isnt bad either, they should last for several dozen miles.

Intake gaskets/o-rings maybe? Common problem on second gens, maybe you're having an issue with it as well.

 

[MadExplorer93]

Yes i have to replace the Valve Cover Gaskets as the driver side leaks a little/lot maybe i lose a litre a month.

I checked for the intake manifold for leaks and found none i used propane. This year does not have the O-Rings in the intake, but they are two gaskets one for the under fuel rail and the other inbetween the fuel rail/plenum. I will when i change the VALVE cover gaskets will have to do plenum gaskets and i will also do the Injector O-Rings.

I also forgot to mention it has a small exhaust leak at the Y-PIPE where it connects to the Exhaust Manifold and yes before anyone states it. This small leak is above the O2 sensor.

2 Year plugs yes should be OK, but if one is missing then it is not.

The thing is i pulled them out on this past Sat and they were Clean on the Passenger Side and the Driver side had a small amount and i mean a small amount of black soot, NOT wet soot, but black soot on the Electrodes of each plug. I of course cleaned them up and checked the GAP and put them back in.

I also checked the COIL resistance which is 13.2-13.3 on all towers and that was done with a OHM meter and testing 1-2,3-4,5-6 in a ROW going from front to back test two tower at a time Otherwise you can't get a reading DUH?.. lol

So what is next a RAG in the TANK..

Fuel Filter like i may/will do.

I checked all vaccum lines with WD-40 Last year and found no issues.

Now remember i still have that COLD stall and a little MISS.

 

[MadExplorer93]

I know i am bad for doing this, but BUMP.....

Come on you FORD Explorer/Bronco brainiacs get with the program tonight as MadExplorer93 is posting today/tonight and i have not been around for some time.

The program is here in this thread.

Oh and thks for the suggestions.

 

[MrShorty]

Any trouble codes in the computer?

What is fuel pressure doing?

Have you tried a cylinder balance test to see if the misfire is isolated to one cylinder?

 

[daves97sport]

Something is causing it to be "out of range" of the IAC adjustment. Most likely as above stated, a vacuum leak, or possibly MAF sensor bad or dirty.

Although very thorough with your descriptions, diagnosis usually has to be done "at hand".
We need codes and more technical readings as MrShorty listed. It's sometime just a process of elimination.
Good luck!

 

[MadExplorer93]

Yes i am bad forgetting to mention the CODES.. opps i do that from time to time when i get mad at my EX and i don't mean my Vehicle... lol

Now the codes were 177/172 which is the O2 sensors one reading lean, one reading rich.

This would account for the driverside plugs being a little sooty and the passenger side nice a clean.

Now before we all jump to any other further conclusions, i will try my best not to make so many TYPO's ..... lol

Ok after doing the SEAFOAM thing into the Intake Hose (I used the Cruise Control Hose Line Which is hooked to the Vaccum Tree) and dumping about 1/3 into the Gas Tank which i only have about a (Quater Of Gas) in the tank.

I took it for a nice run yesterday and she ran good and no more Surging Occured.

I started the vehicle up today (remember it is still winter here in Canada and it is only -2 to -3 today. The vehicle started up like normal 1500rpm, slowly went to 1200rpm, then 800rpm, then kicked out down to 400rpm, but went right to 600rpm.... This is normal right (yes it is) AND AMAZING THING NO STALL.

Thats right no stall that is the first time ever since buying it last year that it never stalled when it kicks out to that 400-500rpm Cold Start whether it is in winter or summer morning, Cold Start = sat all night or 3-4 hours. No Stall. whoo hooo.... yeee haww.

Ok so there is still that Tiny Now and i mean Tiny little MISS not backfire, but tiny engine wiggle.

Ok yes it could be low compression on one cylinder, but when i checked last year all compression was fine and remember this little MISS and Stalling was occuring then too.

Now the thing is i do honestly believe i have one or two dirty/clogged injectors that have been somewhat cleaned now from using SEAFOAM in the tank and SEAFOAM into the intake helped clean any carbon/soot on plugs and pistons that may have been there.

Conclusion:

So it appears the Surging was a dirty/clogged injector and is partially fixed right now of course more driving will help it out since there is plenty of SEAFOAM in the GAS tank still. I will how ever when i run the GAS down to 1/8 or lower full her up to 3/4 or full and dump in Half or Full can of SEAFOAM to help in a preventative maintence measure.

The Tiny Miss could be from the TINY exhaust leak from the Y-Pipe on the passenger side which is before the O2 sensor and it is where the Flange mounts to the Exhaust Manifold.

By the way when i used SEAFOAM into the intake that stuff is good for finding an exhaust leak as Smoke was coming out of the Y-PIPE where i mentioned the tiny leak is.

The MISS can be from those Crappy Champion plugs, maybe one is fouled to many times and is useless and sparking from the side. It could also be the COIL pack even though 2000 OHM out of spec should be OK, but no BACKFIRE is occuring (yet) so it plausible, but not likely in this scenario.

Like i mentioned before i must sometime sooner or later change the driver side Valve Cover Gasket, but of course i will be doing the Passenger Side as well. This means changing the Plenum Gasket, Throttle Body Gasket, Both Valve Cover Gaskets and i will also be replacing the Injector O-RINGS.

The thing is i hope the Injectors are clean enough before i do all of this or i maybe looking at replacing an injector or injectors. Problem with that is i don't want to pay $180-$220 CDN TOTAL for 6 of them.

I am planning shortly to change the plugs to the MotorCraft FM DP plugs for this vehicle. I am also going to be changing the Fuel Filter which will help eliminate a Fuel Pressure Issue if any. Remember like i stated it does not surge now and did not Stall yet as of Today.

So what do you guys think now?

 

[MrShorty]

Now the codes were 177/172 which is the O2 sensors one reading lean, one reading rich.

Any chance the O2 sensor wires are switched? It happens more often than we might want to admit, and it will cause problems.
Do you get equivalent codes from the KOER test?
I would try the EEC-IV cylinder balance test, though it's not very good at diagnosing fuel injector issues (because it disables the injectors as part of the test). A manual cylinder balance test (by pulling spark plug wires one at a time) might also be in order. The latter could be useful in diagnosing a bad injector.
A new fuel filter will not guarantee that fuel delivery is functioning exactly as it should. I had a random misfire/stumble/stall that became apparent after testing the fuel pressure. The initial KOEO pressures were fine, but several seconds after starting the engine (I was watching the pressure during a KOER test) the fuel pressure became erratic coinciding with the engine problem I was experiencing.
It seems that old school diagnostics used to be able to tell a lot about an engine using a vacuum gauge. I don't have much experience with it, but I have seen discussions on the net of how to interpret vacuum gauge readings. In the interest of getting as much information as possible to find something that will prod someone to say, "that's it" it might not be a bad idea to hook a vacuum gauge up to the engine and see if anything useful can be obtained.

 

[ThePhoenix]

plug wires? my o2 sensor codes were because of plug wires arching....and I had a miss in the idle too, which is now gone

 

[MadExplorer93]

Ok i may have forgot to mention as i did not go re-read my thread, but i do have brand new wires on the vehicle put them on on the weekend. This issue was going on before all of this.

Mr-Shorty yes i am also consider the FPS maybe not getting a proper pressure reading. I have not done a pressure test as i don't have a gauge yet to do so and or a vaccum gauge yet to do so. A clogged filter can cause pressure loss as well this is why i am going to try that route for the mean time incase of a pressure issue and or after i do buy gauge maybe this week or next week. I will test the FPS for a pressure reading.

Mow i stated the vehicle did not stall this morning in which it did not, but after going bakc out in 2 hours to leave for an appointment i started it up and it did its normal thing of RPM and when it hit the 400rpm mark it bounced up to the 500rpm mark which is normal, but then stalled. It started up fine like normal after that and remained idling.

So i am guessing like you, maybe a bad plug, bad FPS (or pressure), vaccum leak (not likely yet), but maybe plausible, exhaust leak maybe casuing the stall issue.

I checked the vaccum line from the FPS and no gas or wetness was visible, but i will do the container test (meaning take the vacumm line off the vaccum tree and put that end into a container) and turn the engine over to see if any gas comes out. If it does then the FPS is no good even though there is not visible leak into the line.

I will shortly this week i am hoping to change the plugs to the motorcraft DP-FM plugs and put a new fuel filter on it.

The O2 sensor lines are not switched i checked that already and really when you look at the harness the way they hook up there is only one way the wires will reach the sensors and if hooked up wrong the harness wires would be crossed over each other or twisted, as far as i know they have never been touched. I can again double check this issue, but i don't think that is the issue in this scenario.

The previous owner who has passed on now his grandson stated the vehicle ran fine with the FORD plugs in it, but when they changed the plugs to the Champion plugs this is the second set in a 4 year period of champions. The motor would start doing what it is doing. The small exhaust leak was present on the vehicle about 2 years ago = 1 year prior to me purchasing it and the previous owner 2 years ago changed the fuel filter (Brand New) as well as the IAC (brand New) at that time cause of the stalling issue it had and i guess now still has, but after SEAFOAM it has cleard that up pretty good so far.

I do believe and yes your right Mr-Shorty that it will be hard to diagnose an Injector issue. I wish there was a way to clena the buggers properly when they are OUT of the vehicle as when i go to do the plenum/valve gaskets/Injector O-Rings i would love to get the injectors cleaned at that time and it will also give me a chance to see if any are BAD.

The Codes 177/172 O2 sensor readings may very well be from the injectors being dirty or 1-2 being plugged and it can also be cause of a little MISS on one plug and the tiny exhaust leak. This brings to the next statement of the tiny leak is very low sounding when the vehicle warms up as the Y-PIPE and Exhaust Manifold expand when the vehicle gets warmed up. The leak before the warming occurs is a little louder, but not really loud to cause any police to pull me over.

 

[35Remmy]

I hate to say it and I don't mean to sound like an a-hole but the vehicle is FIFTEEN years old...sensors and aux equipment aren't supposed to last that long and problems are EXPECTED with a vehicle that old.

It certainly gets to the point when they're just not reliable anymore.

I had to replace every injector on my 95 Wrangler before I got rid of it because of a crappy idle problem...at the tune of 80$ a pop...500$ for 6, heh. I said enough was enough.

 

[MadExplorer93]

Yesterday the day after the SEAFOAM i mentioned it never stalled the first time since i had it that it did not stall in the morning or a cold start. The thing later on that day (yesterday) the vehicle stalled from a cold start at a mall i only drove there which took 10 min to do so and shut it off, went inside and came out to start it up and it did its normal RPM thing as i noted before in this thread, but at the 500RPM make it stalled.

The thing when it started up again which was normal to do it starts right away all the time. I go that "Surge Back Again" from 400-700rpm while in park or even if it was in Drive Or Reverse.

It appears SEAFOAM cleaned something out through the Intake and it worked for only what 24hrs. I still have the rest of the can 1/3 in the GAS TANK which means can't be an injector clogging issue, unless the injector is getting clogged or is just wore out that it does not matter now.

It was wet and DAMP out yesterday here at that time and snowing/blowing, but Damp. I wonder if this was a related issue as the day the SEAFOAM was done it was bright and sunny/warm out.

Now to point some issues out still:

I have that tiny exhaust leak on the driverside i spoke about and it is tiny and before the O2 sensor.

The Codes are for lean on passenger side and rich on the driver side, this is confusing as to why one is lean and one is rich.

After cleaning with SEAFOAM through the Intake Hose (I used the the Cruise Control Vac Line) it appears the surging was gone for good, but as we all know it is now back 24hrs later. This appears to be a dirty Valve Or Piston issue and possibly on the Driver Side as that is the Rich Code side.

It appears the vehicle is loading up = getting to much fuel on the one side, but is on the other hand (probably lean on the passenger side) cause of the tiny leak which the O2 sensor will take as to much Oxygen = a lean out mixture for Bank 1.

I can't determine not yet what is causing this Richness as the FPS seems to be fine on initial inspection of the VAC line from it shows no GAS within the line. It can't be a clogged fuel filter as then it would have a more serious issue then just stalling. It can't be a fuel pump issue as then both sides would be running rich.

If it is dirty or clogged injector(s) that don't make sense either as the surge went away after doing the Intake with SEAFOAM.

The vehicle runs fine, goes from 60-100KM within in 40 secs when stomped down, no issues, no misses, no bogging down.

This is one of those PISS ME OFF issues..hehehe..that we never dream to have, but it is there.

Any thoughts is it Fuel related or Electronic related or Engine Related?

 

[MrShorty]

A couple of thoughts:

If you clear CM, do you get both of those codes back immediately? Do you get equivalent codes from the KOER test?

I may not have followed closely enough, but what spark plugs are in it now? What do they look like (does the condition of the plugs confirm what the O2 sensors are telling you)?

Until you put a fuel pressure gauge on it, it will be hard to rule out a fuel delivery problem.

 

[MadExplorer93]

A couple of thoughts:

If you clear CM, do you get both of those codes back immediately? Do you get equivalent codes from the KOER test?

I may not have followed closely enough, but what spark plugs are in it now? What do they look like (does the condition of the plugs confirm what the O2 sensors are telling you)?

Until you put a fuel pressure gauge on it, it will be hard to rule out a fuel delivery problem.

When i clear the codes by the way of taking the battery cables off for about 10 min and put them back on. It takes about 1-3 days before a code comes back. After doing SEAFOAM two days ago and then yesterday i got a CODE again. I never read that one yet, but similar issues = surging again and that rough idle, but remember all was fine two days ago after using SEAFOAM.

Once the surge came back yesterday it took about 40 secs for the CEL to light up.

The 2 year old Champion plugs are still in as i am still waiting for my Nice Government to pay me my refund check still and it was suppose to be this week sometime.

Yes a FP test is no doubt in order, but again i need money to buy a gauge yet and Vaccum it too, but i am 100% certain it is not a Vaccum issue, but infact a Fuel or Spark related issue, but Spark would be pushing it. I am certain it is a Fuel Issue, but not certain 100% what or which it is, FPS or Injectors, funny thing is SEAFOAM don;t touch the FPS until after i poured some in the tank and the surge went away by using SEAFOAM in the intake First.

Tricky this situation is as it a bugger when i don't have equipment to test with yet.

The codes are consistant with the plugs driverside small amount of soot on them and passenger side nice a clean thats the side indicated as being LEAN.

All Codes are from KOEO.

I never have done a KOER test yet.. i know me BAD... he he.

Should it be done with engine warmed up or right when i start it?

 

[MrShorty]

Engine (and O2 sensor) needs to be at operating temperature before starting the KOER test.

When i clear the codes by the way of taking the battery cables off for about 10 min and put them back on. It takes about 1-3 days before a code comes back.

Always the same 172/177 combination of codes?

 

[MadExplorer93]

Engine (and O2 sensor) needs to be at operating temperature before starting the KOER test.
Always the same 172/177 combination of codes?

When i checked the codes twice it was always the same two codes, but i did not check since. Even today it came on and for some reason went off within 5 secs of coming on. I was at a stop sign and then started off got up to 60KM and the light came on, then when it hit 80KM it went off... go figure as usually when it comes on it stays on until i shut the vehicle off.

I am thinking it is a FPR issue, but the FPR from initial test is not leaking, i will when it is warm outside ... burrr burrrr cold right now and no garage to work in is a bugger for some Canadians... hehehe...i will put the VAC line from the FPR into a JAR or just take it off and let it hang down low and turn key on to see if any GAS comes out. If none comes out it does not mean that the FPR is good either as it maybe faulty and not getting enough pressure to the the injectors, but it can do so when driving.

It may also be a partially blocked return line from the FPR causing to much pressure to the fuel rail and when driving the pressure gets pushed through and this maybe the LEAN on one side Rich on other side issue.

It could be a weak fuel pump along with a blocked fuel filter.

I am guessing of course, but it is plausible by what i have been reading from many sites of FPR symtoms which include:

1. Rough Idle
2. Rich or Lean Issue
3. Surging at low idle
4. Stalling at cold start or hesitation
5. Causing Injectors to not operate properly
6. Makes the computer over or under compensate

The only thing i know what is wrong is the tiny exhaust leak which when warmed up is even smaller.

I do believe MAF is OK, IAC is OK, Wires are new and OK, the plugs are decent, but could be an issue with that little miss i talked about, the vehicle runs fine/drives fine, shifts fine, goes like a bat out of hell, TPS is in its proper range, i see nor hear nor found any vaccum leaks, fuel economy is still OK, but it does burn a little more right now since this issue of surging has started.

So whatever this issue is it must be minor to moderate and a pain in the ass for a backyard mechanic to solve... hehehe.

 

[MadExplorer93]

Ok update guys i finally pulled codes again today and here they are (below) and let me explain the first 2 codes which:

One the Neutral Safety Switch Plug is loose and i have to put my Finger on it for the Vehicle to start, yes that means i have the hole open Half way on the floor and i bend it open and shut when i need to start it, but when it is warmed up the dang thing will start without me touching the harness and yes this is not an issue for what has been going on.

The Canister Purge failure is simple as i just took that canister out the other day cause i accidently broke the TEE on it, yes i plugged the hose that goes to the Thottle Body, so that is not an issue.

CODES:

522 Vehicle not in PARK or NEUTRAL during KOEO
565 Canister purge (CANP) circuit failure.

157 Mass Air Flow Sensor Circut Below Minimum Volatge
172 HEGO sensor circuit indicates lean.
176 HEGO sensor circuit indicates lean. BANK NO.2
542 Pump Circuit Failure Most Likely the Relay


Now the 157 to 176 Codes are the ones that can be explained more, obviously if the MAF is getting a low voltage it will not send the proper signal to the PCM and causing the LEAN issue in BANK NO.2 which is the Drivers Side plugs, which are the ones that are covered with a slight black soot on them.

The 542 error is due to a BAD relay in the power box or bad ground to the pump or corroded wires at the RELAY in the power BOX, my guess is the Relay itself as the pump does not continue to run and run more then 1-4 secs as it normally should do 1-4 secs when you turn the Key on.

So under my impression of a FPR issue which is probably an issue that should be checked incase, but it seems right this minute that may not be the issue for the moment.

My impression of my nice and CLEAN MAF after pulling it out a week to clean it again, appears to be another issue of LOW VOLTAGE now with the code 157 issue. This can also be corroded wires at the harness or the connector itself.

Ok so Questions:

What to do next, yeah, yeah maybe clean harness if it is dirty or change the MAF which in CANADA it cost anywhere from $155.00 to $298.00 CDN and that is a rip off for a 15 year old vehicle.

Is there no where that sells the Dang MAF sensor by itself without the actual AIR FLOW BODY?

 

[MrShorty]

So now we aren't getting the 177 rich code. The codes all point to a lean condition.

I still would try the KOER test. KOER codes represent hard faults, and sometimes it's easier to work from hard faults rather than memory codes.

All four of those CM codes could be interrelated. In other words, one cause triggering all 4. If this were to be the case, it would have to be in the fuel pump circuit. Is it possible for the fuel pump circuit to have a loose connection in it so the pump isn't running continuously (which would cause the fuel pressure to be low, which would cause the engine to run lean)? 1st thing I'd probably do with that list of codes would be to put a voltmeter/ammeter on the fuel pump circuit to see what it's doing (probably have a fuel pressure gauge on it at the same time to see if the pressure is staying up where it should be).

 

[MadExplorer93]

So now we aren't getting the 177 rich code. The codes all point to a lean condition.

I still would try the KOER test. KOER codes represent hard faults, and sometimes it's easier to work from hard faults rather than memory codes.

All four of those CM codes could be interrelated. In other words, one cause triggering all 4. If this were to be the case, it would have to be in the fuel pump circuit. Is it possible for the fuel pump circuit to have a loose connection in it so the pump isn't running continuously (which would cause the fuel pressure to be low, which would cause the engine to run lean)? 1st thing I'd probably do with that list of codes would be to put a voltmeter/ammeter on the fuel pump circuit to see what it's doing (probably have a fuel pressure gauge on it at the same time to see if the pressure is staying up where it should be).

I did it also with the KOER and got same codes as those and one or tow more one for brake not being depressed and the other about tranny not changed its state = not put in neutral for self test and yes no 177 code now for bank no.2 which it was before. So maybe that seafoam in the take is helping the lean out now... lol

I may try again when i run it again just to see if any more codes come up, but thats all i got for now and no more after it. I am using my posted way of checking codes i posted how to do so LAST year in this very forum. I am using a TEST LIGHT.

Here is the link:

07-27-2007, 11:44 AM

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191861

I do believe the MAF is failing, but i will check voltage there first, but i don't know the wiring schematic for it and what volts to check for.

As for testing the fuel pressure i can't do that yet no gauge to do so, poor man for now the dang Gov still has my money they owe me for taxes, next week is what they telling me now, but at least i can tets voltage if i knew what to test for what volts etc.

 

[MadExplorer93]

Also not to confuse anyone the pump comes on normal, ya hear it .. burrzzz, Burrzzz then u turn the key and she starts, basically if was a PUMP issue it would continue longer then 2-4 secs and drown the engine out, but that Relay if it is BAD the PCM will close it off all by itself and have the PUMP working, but the PCM once started won't compensate after it is started.