The Black Pearl SAS and build

Well now that Im Elite i figured Id start a thread to document my SAS build...

 

[gmanpaint]

Pillage & Plunder, aren't those viking terms? lol

Was thinking Full Mast, Half Mast, & 1/4 Mast, for a sail knot speed, but that could be misconstrued. haha!

 

[KurtECV]

plunder = forcible taking, specifically overt forcible taking, as in robbing (vs. covert forcible taking, as in stealing)

pillage = plunder + violent destruction

sack = total plunder + violent destruction

So it might become: Plunder (2WD), Pillage (4HI), Sack (4LO)

 

[KurtECV]

Mic'd the slider tubes the other day.

1.26 ID

Inch and a quarter should slip in pretty well i think, might have to actually sand it down a bit to get a nice slip fit...

Also, my Barnes4WD joints came in yesterday. I need to reinforce the track-bar frame a bit with some 1/4 plate.

then adjust my frame height a bit (from adding the winch i think) but hopefully i can get the track-bar and steering setup this weekend.

 

[KurtECV]

Also i realized i may have thrown my drop pitman arm away. I really wasnt planning on using it because when i was drilling it out (for the heim joint, 3/4 bolt) the bit chipped and the hole didnt get drilled out perfectly round.

But i at least was going to use it for mock up. Some how it was lost betwen the old house and new house. Misplaced or it got thrown in the scrap haul with the D35 and other stock parts... damnit

 

[gmanpaint]

Good thing about the DOM tube on the sliders is, there is no seam weld to hang up for a nice tight fitment, going over the smaller frame side tube.

Bronco Graveyard or James Duff have a drop pitman in the size you need?

Getting those angles to match on those bars is the hard part of the swap I think. Well for me it would be at least.

 

[KurtECV]

There are a lot of options for the track-bar. I have a ballistic fab adjustable frame mount. Everyone and their mother sells a D44 track-bar riser for the axle side, which is not a bad idea, seems like a lot of guys have a problem with the track-bar bolt hitting the tie rod when turning.

on the drag link, i want to stay tie-rod over but at least there is that option to go tie-rod under (to bring the drag link down, at the knuckle). And there are at least three explorer options for the pitman arm (stock, FA400 and FA600)

and the option of getting a univeral pitman arm with an undrilled hole for the link side (to drill out for a bolt or ream it for TRE style) and a weld in adapter for the steering box side (just have to order the correct insert and have it welded in place)

 

[gmanpaint]

Pass on the Universal arm! lol Heck with a bunch of that. Hard enough to open the holes as is, let alone making a new one from scratch and being perfect. Ugh.

Tons & tons of places sell the 400 & 600, but the places I mentioned always seem to have them in stock, and at great prices. Not having your height set yet, just means your not sure which arm is going to work best yet. The adjustable mounts do not always allow for a great dial in, like a custom made to fit mount. Might be 1/2" off up or down with the preset holes. Just saying.....

 

[KurtECV]

Pass on the Universal arm! lol Heck with a bunch of that. Hard enough to open the holes as is, let alone making a new one from scratch and being perfect. Ugh.

Tons & tons of places sell the 400 & 600, but the places I mentioned always seem to have them in stock, and at great prices. Not having your height set yet, just means your not sure which arm is going to work best yet. The adjustable mounts do not always allow for a great dial in, like a custom made to fit mount. Might be 1/2" off up or down with the preset holes. Just saying.....

Of course thats always the case. But the WH track bar riser look pretty damn easy to build but with having the option to get it perfect with the drag-link.

If i went the blank pitman arm route i would just send it to a machine shop and have them drill it out

 

[KurtECV]

Gman i think your about the only one who watches this thread

But for referance, I picked up some 1" ID PCV sch 40 pipe today and a 3 foot piece of 1.25 OD tubing today.

the PCV is for the track bar and drag-link. 1" ID because the heim joint tube inserts will slip into the PVC and i can get my lengths correct before i start to chop the DOM tubing. I have seen this done with suspension links and it seems like it works well.

The 1.25 tubing will slip fit into the rear drivers side leg of the slider, once its cut in (about) half ill slide the sleeve in and plug weld it to the frame side of the leg (that will be welded to the frame), and bolt the slider side of throughleg to the sleeve. making it removable and dont have to deal with dropping the gas tank.

 

[KurtECV]

For anyone who's watching, Checkout Project Bailed-Out to see the new project i picked up over the weekend.

Project Bailed-Out

The plan is to evaluate the rig and see how it does and then get back on this project (most likely this weekend) so stay tuned!

 

[KurtECV]

I think I might have figured out my coil bowing (forward) problem. I was going through @BKennedy SAS pages looking for trac-bar ideas and I noticed his coil-over plates and RA brackets he had here:

And here:

If I remember correctly, those were at post 369 or somewhere just before that.

BTW Great job on that build @BKennedy

Basically going to use the idea he has here, and build a lower coil bucket, with a "wedge" between the plate he has there and the actual coil bucket. IN THEORY it should pivot the front of the coil bucket up to match the upper coil bracket and get rid of my bowing problem.

The only other solution will be to lower the RA bracket (at the T-case) and lose ground clearance

 

[KurtECV]

For reference, here is a good idea of what I am dealing with:

Now at ride height and full weight of the rig, the bowing is worse.. its not like they are going to pop out like wily coyote installed them (but he might have done a better job!

 

[gmanpaint]

Tough call.

Wonder if you could use the beefy pinion shims for leaf springs, under them retainers? Already made with bolt holes, and can get in various degrees. Just not as wide as the retainer is, so not sure if it would work for this or not. (just think typing here)

I would lower the RA mounts a bit I think. Shouldn't take too much of a drop, maybe 1.5"-2.0"?

 

[KurtECV]

That's kind of the idea I was going for (the leaf spring shims)

I could drop the ra mounts down, but that would require a new crossmember which is what I am trying to avoid lol

 

[BKennedy]

Thanks for the nice words. Man, that axle was clean then.

You don't have to go to all the trouble I did in making the tabs to catch the two top radius arm axle bolts. Its unnecessary, and very time consuming, and it makes mounting the RA's a pain. I ended up cutting them off when I decided the plates were going to be used as limit strap mounts. The plate was easy by itself, but I have Duff RA's with a long, flat surface where the OEM RA's angle away from the bolt holes. I drilled and tapped a extra hole when I was planning on using the RA's for my coil over mounts. Figured out shocks would contact the frame at full rebound, so went off the inner C's.

When you disconnect the coil springs from the lower mounts and drop the suspension, where does the bottom of the coil end up?

At ride height how are the coil springs sitting?

My buddy Mike's TJ rear coil springs are bowed at ride height because the top mount is angled the wrong way. It bugs me, but the Jeep doesn't seem to care.

 

[KurtECV]

At ride height, they are bowed a bit more than the picture in post #152.

I really dont think it will be a problem. Its just one of those things you notice lol. I will post a picture when i get home tonight.

I think i am going to take some of the Chromo tubing from my sliders on the upper coil bracket and get rid of that plate like this:

I am not sure if the 2" tubing will be thick enough to keep the right in the center of the bucket or not.

 

[BKennedy]

Rick's Great Pumpkin used to have those type of coil spring sliders before he went with coil overs. At the top they need a cone or spacer that is as wide as the ID of the coil springs so they can settle in the same place. Rick's was noisy, but it really allowed the axle to droop.

If you got rid of that coil sandwich at the top and just went with a J hook to retain the coils, it might take care of a lot of the bowing. It looks like its pulling the coil spring up at the front, which would cause the coil to bow forwards like it is. Try that, and shim the bottom mount until the bow goes away.

I have seen bowing on long coil springs, but its usually inward or outward due to misalignment of the mounts.

Could also remove the coils springs and see if they are bowed. I had that happen to a set of Superlift coils that they replaced under warranty.

 

[KurtECV]

a buddy in OR (@exploregon94 ) i believe has a setup like that, he used a hose clamp if i remember correctly for his 3 link setup, seems to work well for him

 

[KurtECV]

When you disconnect the coil springs from the lower mounts and drop the suspension, where does the bottom of the coil end up?

If i remember correctly, they will fly forward (with the upper coil sammiched in the bucket and retainer.) The upper buckets are pretty damn square to the frame.

I just think it is because of how high i have the heim joint (radius arm). I will have to see how it does on/off road. I really need to get some softer springs i believe too. that may be part of it. those are 6" (lift) coils from a full size bronco that came with the Ballistic Fab Adjustable Upper coil brackets i have.

 

[BKennedy]

OK, I'm not positive, but I think early Bronco coils work better on Explorers