Them's tha brakes, or lack thereof... | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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Them's tha brakes, or lack thereof...

ThespecialistKC

Active Member
Joined
September 17, 2004
Messages
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City, State
Atl, GA
Year, Model & Trim Level
'92 XLT 2wd
OK Gents, try this on for size. Last weekend took the Ex in for an alignment. The tech tells me the front brakes look pretty bad. I go take a look and yes they are bad. They want $1200 for new everything up front. $300 and an hour later I'm starting the job myself. New everything. Rotors, calipers, pads, seals and hoses. Reused the wheels bearings as they were fine. No real problems. Yet.
Start to bleed the brakes. Problems. Start at the rear passenger tire. Won't bleed. No matter how much I pump I can't get any pedal or any fluid or anything. Switch to the driver's rear. Same thing. Hmmm. Try the fronts. they bleed fine, get a great pedal. Start her up, pedal drops.
Pull the drums off, it's obvious the rears haven't been working at all for some time. However, I've never gotten a brake warning or rear ABS warning light. I recently pulled all the codes and came up clear as well.
So, I crack the rear lines at the backing plate to see if it will bleed out there. Nothing. No matter how much I pump, no fluid to the rear, either side. Crack the lines at the master cylinder, fluid bleeds there when I pump. Try to bleed at the RABS hyrd. module on the frame rail. Nothing. Checked the lines for crimps, they come up clean.
At this point it was 3am and I had to leave for business at 8 am the next morning, so she's still sitting on jack stands. Any ideas? Wouldn't a bad master cylinder or RABS hydr. module trip a warning light or an error code? I'm kinda' at a loss here. I don't want to just randomly replace parts without some thoughts as to the actual problem.
I know you guys have it in you. I'm talking about wisdom, not all that other stuff you also have in ya'. :)

KC
 



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atl georgia, what can we do for ya.

No ABS light...

and no pressure to the Rear cylinders?

clogged line or something?

You can try removing the RABS system... it might be crudded up?

or get an 8.8 with disk brakes and run new lines from the master cylinder all togeather.

How long did you bleed it for? maybe you just gotta keep going?
 






Here's the FORD manual without pics...


1. On the master cylinder, loosen the master cylinder-to-hydraulic line fittings.

2. Wrap a shop cloth around the tubing below the fitting to absorb escaping brake fluid.

3. Push the brake pedal down slowly to the floor of the cab. This will force air trapped in the master cylinder to escape at the fitting.

4. Hold the pedal down and tighten the fitting. Release the brake pedal. Do not release the brake pedal until the fitting is tightened or air will re- enter the master cylinder.

5. Repeat this procedure until air ceases to escape at the fitting.

6. Place a box wrench on the bleeder fitting on the Rear Anti-Lock Brake System Valve. Attach a rubber drain tube to the bleeder fitting making sure the end of the tube fits snugly around the bleeder fitting.

Submerge the free end of the tube in a container partially filled with clean brake fluid. Loosen the bleeder fitting approximately three-quarters of a turn.



Slowly press the brake pedal all the way down. Close the bleeder fitting, and return the pedal to the fully-released position. Repeat this operation until air bubbles no longer appear at the submerged end of the bleeder tube.

When the fluid is completely free of air bubbles, close the bleeder fitting and remove the bleeder tube.

7. Place a box wrench on the right brake wheel cylinder. Attach a rubber drain tube to the bleeder fitting making sure the end of the tube fits snugly around the bleeder fitting.

8. Submerge the free end of the tube in a container partially filled with clean brake fluid. Loosen the bleeder fitting approximately three-quarters of a turn.

9. Slowly push the brake pedal all the way down. Close the bleeder fitting, and return the pedal to the fully-released position. Repeat this operation until air bubbles no longer appear at the submerged end of the bleeder tube.

10. When the fluid is completely free of air bubbles, close the bleeder fitting and remove the bleeder tube.

11. Repeat this procedure at the left brake wheel cylinder on the opposite side. Refill the master cylinder reservoir after each wheel cylinder is bled.

12. Bleed the front brakes starting with the right front brake and then the left front brake as described in Steps 7-11 of this procedure.

When the bleeding operation is complete, fill the master cylinder to the maximum level line of the master cylinder reservoir.
 






I had the exact problem. I had another guy do the repair but I told him what the problem was. I just never looked underneath to see where the valve is. It is the valve on the brake lines to the rear that control the feed to the rear wheels. Since the front are disk and the rear are drum brakes this compensates for the difference. I think I paid under $100 for it. The sucker was totally crudded up.

One other suggestion. Always bleed from the closest wheel to the master cyl to the one furthest away. Otherwise you can leave a bubble of air

The fix sure made my truck ride better. Nice smooth breaking into turns with much less roll.

Russ
 






trollkepr said:
One other suggestion. Always bleed from the closest wheel to the master cyl to the one furthest away. Otherwise you can leave a bubble of air

Russ

I do not believe this is true. Everything I've ever heard says to start with the furthest wheel from the master cylinder. Glacier's post above of the Ford manual also backs this up.

Lee
 






May sound dumb but what happens in the Master cylinder if you squeeze the rear piston? Does fluid come up into the Master Cylinder reservoir?

I understand that you found this rear brake problem after working the fronts but It's odd you have no pedal I would have thought that since you didn't change anything to the Rears, you should not have to bleed them. That plumbing should not lose fluid.
 






sounds like the porportioning valve....there used to be a button on them to reset it....try craking the line at the porportioning valve and see if there is any fluid there.
 






Yeah the proportioning valve. That is what it is called. Mine was plugged up solid.
 






That valve is called a combination valve, because it has a proportioning valve in it, and a switch, and a connection to the front lines. That's the part that Russ had changed.

Is the problem that there is no pressure, or connection, between the master cylinder and the ABS unit. I agree that the combination valve between it and the master cylinder is the most likely problem.

It sounds like the brakes have been neglected badly. Replace all of the fluid, and possibly the rear brake cylinders also. Check under their boots to see what condition they are in. Try to move the two brake cylinder pistons back and forth, front to back. If they don't slide very smoothly, replace the cylinders. They don't cost very much. The bleed screws are also likely to be plugged. Good luck,
 






First off, a hearty thank you to everyone that replied. As usual you guys (and gals, can't forget the ladies) came through as I knew you would. Turns out it was a completely crudded up combination valve. Sucker was naaaaasty. Switched it out and all is well. Now I have all 4 wheels when I hit the binders, with rear ABS (for better or worse). I went ahead and did a complete rear overhaul while I was in there. Except for the master cylinder, booster, ABS control module and steel lines, the entire brake system is new. Total cost, approx. $450.00. Freebie value, $0. Still much better than the $2000.00 the local shop wanted to do all 4, and that was without the combination valve.
Thing stops like it should now. All I have to do is merely glance at the brake pedal and she starts to whoa. And without pulling to one side, shuddering and groaning. Imagine that.
Thanks again gents. Now back to that detonation problem I'm chasing.....

KC
 






That $450 sounds much more reasonable. Congratulations.
 






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