Thermostats for your Explorer Sport

[OKExplorerSport]

Dyno the vehicle with stock t-stat, and then swap 160 t-stat and dyno again (no other mods, or changes to programming)... there will be no gain in performance.

If you installed a 160 thermostat then you would need to use the tuner to change the temperature for which the fans turn on otherwise you may as well use the stock thermostat as the onboard computer is programmed for those temps.

 

[Livernois]

If you installed a 160 thermostat then you would need to use the tuner to change the temperature for which the fans turn on otherwise you may as well use the stock thermostat as the onboard computer is programmed for those temps.

With a lower temp thermostat you can reduce the operating temperatures in a performance engine. Allowing your engine to naturally ensure consistent performance and increase coolant flow to help extend engine component longevity.

 

[13Sport]

With a lower temp thermostat you can reduce the operating temperatures in a performance engine. Allowing your engine to naturally ensure consistent performance and increase coolant flow to help extend engine component longevity.

consistant performance, and extended longevity, neither of these equate to "power and performance" benefits.

My original statement is still correct. A thermostat adds no increase to power output. Emissions and power suffer with a cooler thermostat, BUT It will allow you to more safely increase the power via other means (fuel maps, boost, etc).

I've still yet to see a dyno of 'stock thermostat vs. 160 thermostat' to back up your claim that "every car benefits in power and performance from a cooler thermostat". If you're modifying boost and fuel maps when you install the thermostat then it's not a valid comparison. I would bet money on a very mild HP drop with the colder thermostat over stock (w/ no other mods or tuning except for fans).

 

[Livernois]

consistant performance, and extended longevity, neither of these equate to "power and performance" benefits.

My original statement is still correct. A thermostat adds no increase to power output. Emissions and power suffer with a cooler thermostat, BUT It will allow you to more safely increase the power via other means (fuel maps, boost, etc).

I've still yet to see a dyno of 'stock thermostat vs. 160 thermostat' to back up your claim that "every car benefits in power and performance from a cooler thermostat". If you're modifying boost and fuel maps when you install the thermostat then it's not a valid comparison. I would bet money on a very mild HP drop with the colder thermostat over stock (w/ no other mods or tuning except for fans).

How does power suffer with the cooler thermostat? Ford does their power testing at 140° coolant temp, why would they go that low if it hurt power? The NA cars use a thermostat that is ~205° thermostat, but the EcoBoost cars get 178° thermostat. If cooler equated to less power why would that be? Cooler thermostats have been around for 30 years in performance vehicles. If it were detrimental why would all performance variants of production vehicles come with cooler thermostats VS their lesser performing counterparts? Cooler air temps from CAI's follow a similar methodology.

No doubt that it gives tuners more latitude when it comes to adding mods, boost, timing and power. But, to uniformly state that it is a detriment is not correct.


Tuning would have to include a little more than just turning on the fans.

 

[13Sport]

How does power suffer with the cooler thermostat? Ford does their power testing at 140° coolant temp, why would they go that low if it hurt power? The NA cars use a thermostat that is ~205° thermostat, but the EcoBoost cars get 178° thermostat. If cooler equated to less power why would that be? Cooler thermostats have been around for 30 years in performance vehicles. If it were detrimental why would all performance variants of production vehicles come with cooler thermostats VS their lesser performing counterparts? Cooler air temps from CAI's follow a similar methodology.

No doubt that it gives tuners more latitude when it comes to adding mods, boost, timing and power. But, to uniformly state that it is a detriment is not correct.


Tuning would have to include a little more than just turning on the fans.

Cooler air temps from CAI's help because cooler air is more condensed, the more air you add, the more fuel you add, the more combustion, the more power you get. The same is not to be said about the rest of the components, combustion creates heat, heat is energy, energy is power. Air is the one thing you want cool, the rest thrives on heat/energy, the only problem with heat is it causes wear and destruction.

Here is the reason a cooler thermostat can decrease power (when not combined w/ any other changes). A cooler engine will absorb more of the heat/energy created, meaning less is put toward forward motion. A hotter engine generally outputs more power.

Ford puts 205 thermostats on NA engines because w/out the heat spikes from forced induction that is an optimal operating range, the ecoboost gets a cooler thermostat because heat destroys things, and forced induction creates a lot of it. The cooler thermostat allows them to maintain acceptable warranty, emissions, and fuel consumption, as well as not have to deal w/ overheating or blown motors.

If you don't believe me, prove it to yourself, you guys are the performance shop, I assume you have a dyno. Take a stock ecoboost w/ no mods, and dyno in comparison to just a thermostat swap (no other mods or tune). You will find there is no performance gain, and I'd put money on there being a very small performance loss (1-5hp). If you are going to market something you sell as offering a power and performance gain, you should be able to back that up with a dyno.

You even state here, tuning would have to include more than just turning on the fans

 

[13Sport]

. . .

and off topic.. your signature is obnoxious, it shouldn't be 3 times the size of every post on the page. It makes it painful to scroll down the thread.

 

[Livernois]

...the ecoboost gets a cooler thermostat because heat destroys things...

Exactly our point.

If you are going to market something you sell as offering a power and performance gain, you should be able to back that up with a dyno.

We only back up our claims with records...

1. In 2009, before anyone had software, we were tuning the SHO and MKS.
2. In 2011, we were tuning the F-150 Eco before other companies could even flash it. We were the first again
3. In 2012, we were tuning the 2013 SHO while other software wasn't out for 6-8 months later
4. In 2012, we were tuning the Explorer Sport, almost a full year and a half before anyone else.
5. First to tune the 2.0 fusion
6. First to tune the 1.5 fusion
7. First to tune the 1.6 fusion
8. First to tune the 2.0 escape
9. First to tune the 1.6 escape
10. First tune only 12 second SHO
11. First 11 second SHO
12. First 12 second F150
13. First 12 second Explorer Sport
14. First 11 second EcoBoost Mustang
15. First with upgraded turbo's
16. First with Downpipes
17. First with Methanol kits
18. First to offer 3-bar tuning
19. First 600whp EcoBoost Dyno captured on video
20. Highest HP EcoBoost Engine on the planet
21. Quickest Taurus SHO in the 1/4 mile
22. Fastest Taurus SHO in the 1/4 mile
23. First to tune 2015 Expedition / Navigator
24. First to tune 2015 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost

 

[13Sport]

Exactly our point.

We only back up our claims with records...

Not arguing your records, I use your tunes, I love your products. I'm merely pointing out that the statement earlier in this thread saying that every engine will benefit from power and performance gains by lowering the thermostat temperature is false. They allow you to increase power (through tunes, mods, etc) and still maintain some longevity. It would be bad advice to change the stock thermostat on the ecoboost if doing no other tuning, it would negatively impact performance, emissions, and mileage with no benefits.

Your records include nothing about increasing performance by using lower temperature thermostats, its not relevant here. Andy stated in an earlier reply

"We recommend our 160* thermostat for anyone looking for added performance from these cars, especially when tuned."

The lower temp thermostat isn't adding any performance, it is adding safety and longevity (even you state "increase coolant flow to help extend engine component longevity.").

Why are you so against doing a dyno comparison of JUST a thermostat swap on a stock engine? You seem to be pretty adamant that it will show a power gain.

 

[explosportguy]

Great discussion everyone. We've gone over this point ad nauseam (sp??) in the XKR supercharged forum. Just to point out, once a thermostat is open, it is open - point. When a thermostat is wide open, there is no difference in cooling capacity whether you have a 150 or a 200 installed. The difference is how quick the thermostat responds to attempt to alleviate heat soak. If you are a casual go-faster like me, it really doesn't make much diff. In the 90-95 degree ambient stop and go Houston traffic, my stock thermostat is pretty much wide open all the time. Max cooling capacity is max cooling capacity no matter what thermostat you have installed.

 

[Livernois]

Not arguing your records, I use your tunes, I love your products. I'm merely pointing out that the statement earlier in this thread saying that every engine will benefit from power and performance gains by lowering the thermostat temperature is false. They allow you to increase power (through tunes, mods, etc) and still maintain some longevity. It would be bad advice to change the stock thermostat on the ecoboost if doing no other tuning, it would negatively impact performance, emissions, and mileage with no benefits.

Your records include nothing about increasing performance by using lower temperature thermostats, its not relevant here. Andy stated in an earlier reply


The lower temp thermostat isn't adding any performance, it is adding safety and longevity (even you state "increase coolant flow to help extend engine component longevity.").

Why are you so against doing a dyno comparison of JUST a thermostat swap on a stock engine? You seem to be pretty adamant that it will show a power gain.

Every engine will,"...especially when tuned....". Tuning can be and is more powerful and more effective post thermostat installation.

The thing to remember is that we are not a small mom and pop shop with 1 lift and no cars on the lot. We have 15 lifts and 8 techs, but there are 60 cars here waiting for work to be done. And of the 60 there are at least 55 of them that require tuning. There simply is not enough time in the day to do something like that. There is a 3 month backlog of clients waiting to get their vehicles in not to mention all of the R&D work that the big 3 ask of us.

No one is suggesting that you can just take a 20° colder thermostat and slap in onto a stock car...that is mere foolishness. If an aftermarket thermostat opens earlier than the stock unit, it is common sense and simple science that its cooling ability is better because it is fully open earlier. What is there to argue?

 

[cwescapexlt4x4]

Back to the photo issue, please reduce the overall size of your signature photo as this will help desktop, mobile and tablet users for size (having to scroll left/right) and data usage.