Time to ask the experts...

[JoeDirt]

Had a vibration/resonance issue at 45 mph and over 80 mph it sounded terrible (loud humming like being inside of a jet at take-off). Whole truck and steering wheel vibrated and dash rattled. Alignment and tire road force balance were recently done.

Took it to the local dealer…said transfer case rear shaft bearing went and chewed up the casting, causing slop in rear drive shaft. Solution was a brand new borg-warner transfer case from factory and replacement of U-joints. I said ok.

Took the truck on a long drive to the shore over the weekend. Vibration is still there but not as strong as before…same speeds and all. The engine has 165,000 miles on it, but I still think it is a vibration from the drive-shaft.

Any thoughts on what to check next?

 

[410Fortune]

Yeah check the guy at the dealer upside the head with your fist.

Did they re-balance the driveshaft? Did they replace the U joints and lube the slip yoke? Is the pinion seal/bearing on the 8.8 still okay? because if the T case was toasted at the pinion flange everything else from there back would also be loose/leaking/etc.

Is the transmission mount okay?

How old are the tires? How many miles on the truck?
I would be a little bit pissed off at the dealer personally.......

 

[JoeDirt]

410Fortune,

I am very pissed at them right now. Here's what I know:

I dont think the drive shaft was rebalanced b/c no new weights.
The rear diff. pinion seal was replaced 4 months ago when I had them change the gear fluid...I crawled under last night and there was no leakage there, and no movement when I yanked on the shaft. Not sure if they lubed the slip yoke or if the trans mount is ok, I guess I should shake that too and see if it moves?

The tires are 1 year old w/ 14,000 mi. on them...they are light truck bf goodrich ta ko all terrains...a bit of a stiffer ride compared to my other tires (used to run wilderness and then dueller a/ts). The truck has 165,000 miles on it, but it is in excellent condition. I am very very picky about keeping it running until the wheels fall off.

I have a road test with the ford shop foreman on wednesday. Im not paying another penny. They shouldn't have given the truck back to me unless they were sure enough that all problems were eliminated...I requested them to make sure they did so too.

 

[410Fortune]

Good for you, if you ask me this is now their problem. They gave you the diagnosis for the vibration, they charged you $$$ to fix the problem, yet when you got the truck back they problem was still there.

Now they will jsut want you to go away, you see they already got your $$$ for the repairs they made, so from now on they will just want either more $$$ or for you to go away. DONT go away, pester the heck out of them until it is fixed. If the guy you are talking to is a dead end, tell him thank you, now I would like to speak with the manager/service manager, if they dead end you, go to the customer service rep at the dealer, file a complaint, keep going up the ladder and DO NOT GIVE UP.
I ended up taking Courtesy Ford to the BBB before I finally got my defective part replaced......

 

[JoeDirt]

I've taken my car to them several times before for large projects and routine maintenance. I can change most things myself, but cant handle the larger problems (don't have the time or space to do it). I paid over $1800 for parts and labor, so the least I expect is for the problem to go away. I won't be happy until the vibration is gone. If they say it is something else, then they should fix it w/o me paying anything more. In other words, if the total cost to fix the vibration is say $5000, I would have probably spent that towards a new truck...Im already in the hole $1800...the rest should on them since the diagnosis was not complete.

 

[410Fortune]

$1800 for a T case and install, man you got hosed.
I call them stealerships.

You relaize you could have picked up a used t case for about 2-300$ MAX and it is held in with 5 bolts?

 

[JoeDirt]

I know it was alot, but compared to a new truck @ $30,000 it sounded better.

I checked around and the best I could come up with for a used one was $800 in my area...but I don't know where its been and who serviced it. The new t-case went for $1504...and the labor was probably too high. I don't mind paying for a new part, but I do expect that the problem would go away.

 

[JoeDirt]

By the way, I had to ask for my old T-case back...and they "had to check" first to make sure there wasn't a core included...I was told by a friend that there is never a core with new parts.

I have the old t-case sitting in my garage.

 

[410Fortune]

did you look at it?
Have you called around to get a quote to have that one rebuilt?

 

[JoeDirt]

I haven't torn into it yet. The rear flange can be jogged 1/8"-1/4" transversely, but I don't know the extent of the damage to the housing as the dealer claims. I did look in through the speedometer opening, and couldn't see any shavings. Apparently, their is only a ball bearing mounted within the case housing at the rear flange yoke.

I'll keep you posted when I do dig into it. Maybe it can be fixed and resold to recoup some of my losses. Ebay may be a good place to sell it if it is repareable.

 

[Bronco638]

I think Jaime's right, have the driveshaft balanced. If there's that much play in the t-case output shaft, then there was an issue with the case, no doubt. However, it sounds as if an out-of-balance driveshaft may be the culprit. That's another issue that should have been addressed.

I discovered a way to get some "leverage" back when dealing with a vendor, provided you paid by credit card. Call your credit card company and dispute the charges. This essentially puts a "hold" on those funds and it will require the VENDOR to go thru hoops and paperwork to get everything straightened out. As soon as they find out you did this, they'll listen to what you have to say and won't give you the run-around. Once it's resolved to your satisfaction, you can tell them that you'll contact the credit card company and remove the dispute.

 

[JoeDirt]

Bronco638,

I thought about doing this, and if the problem is not taken care of by the end of the week, this will happen.

I can't believe that the same weights are on the drive-shaft. I find it very hard to believe that adding new U-joints (not sealed, but greasable) wouldn't throw off the balancing...they should have known this. I'll make sure it is checked.

 

[410Fortune]

is this truck AWD?

 

[JoeDirt]

It has an electronic switch...2WD, 4HIGH, 4LOW

 

[Bronco638]

Give 'em hell JD !

The bigger a thorn you become in their side the faster you'll get this resolved.

As for the driveshaft balance issue, you'd be surprised how smooth an unbalanced driveshaft will spin. When my Dad and I were racing Shelby Mustangs, this was one of the first things we had checked. The factory driveshafts were not even close ! But, you couldn't feel it due to the large masses (transmission & axle) on either end dampening the vibrations. As you discovered, the u-joints and bearings end up failing. So, while it may seem obvious to us, I doubt the dealer even thought of it. There has got to be a speed shop near you that can handle driveshaft balancing. Take it there, have it balanced and then back-charge the dealer. Better yet, have the dealer send it out for balancing. Tell them that if it's 'in-balance', you'll pay for any costs.

 

[mechanix]

I have been on both sides of the fence here. I have worked for a five star Chrysler dealership and have worked in a private owned garage. 1800 dollars for a NEW transfer case installed in not too bad. The best part about getting new is you get alot longer warranty than if you got it from the salvage yard. Most salvage yards I have seen ( I know someone else is going to prove me wrong ) have a 30-60 day warranty on most parts. Now lets say you spend the 800 dollars and four months down the road the tcase goes out. Now you have to spend another 800 dollars for another tcase and 200 dollars or so to have it installed. See where I am going here?

Now on to your problem with the vibration. When you checked the u-joints on the driveshaft did you have the rear end jacked up? By jacking up the rear end you will take all the pressure off the driveshaft making it turn easier back and forth. How many u-joints did they replace? I have seen u-joints cause the problem you are describing and replacement of them cured the problem.

One more thing. I think it is unlikely the drive shaft just went out of balance. If the truck has 165k on it and all of a sudden it started doing this I would look else where, unless a weight did fall off,but they are welded on the shaft in most cases and you would have to hit a rock or something hard to knock it off.

Keep us posted as to what you find out. I am curious as everyone else at this point.

Eric

 

[JoeDirt]

Bronco and Eric,

The dealer claims that they replaced 3 stock sealed U-joints with 3 new greasable U-joints. So the other night I changed my oil, purchased a grease gun and went at it. First, I could only find 1 fitting on the double cardigan U-joint just rear of the transfer case. The other U-joint near the rear diff pinion didn't have one. In between these is a rubber boot that looks like an accordian...I think it is a c/v joint (located at mid-point of rear shaft, closer to rear differential). Second, I couldn't grease the fitting b/c a t-case flange shaft bolt is right in the way...one of them funny "star-shaped" bolts that I can't remove...maybe I'll get them to put a 45 degree fitting.

But anyhow, I will be taking it over to them tomorrow. I will test drive the truck and make sure they know every last vibration.

One last thing...over 80 mph feels like a vibration from all over the truck (mostly front)...I know this is a loaded question, but what front end parts can make the truck vibrate at these speeds? It feels like Im in a pressurized jet with loud turbulence everywhere...kinda scarey.

 

[mechanix]

Something you might want to try is to take it to a well known private garage. They sometimes have free estimates and will go on a test drive with you and you can drive and explain to them what you are feeling. This will give you alot of leverage when you go back into the dealership. And when you go to a private place they will even show you what is bad when it is on the lift.

The vibration you are feeling in the front could be comming from else where. I think at this point I would take it one thing at a time and try not to overwhelm the dealership with two problems at once.

Best of luck. Keep us posted.

 

[JoeDirt]

Ok, I got my terminology straight...I have the double cardan driveshaft with slip yoke. It doesn't look like the slip yoke was greased since the clamps do no appear to be new or wrenched upon...I thought the boot was the c/v joint...but that was just the yoke...sorry for muddying up the water.

I'll make sure to get the major points across...It has been my experience that focus can be shifted to the minor problems first since they are easier to fix.

Thanks for the input...I'll be back with a report.

 

[JoeDirt]

Just back from my test drive w/ the ford shop foreman (FF). Thanks to your help and the insight of my friend Dan, I prepared a list of the problems and possible causes, so that the FF could review before heading out on the road.

The FF didn't talk much - a good sign. He listened and listened and asked questions sparingly. He felt that the problem was still in the driveline and indicated that the slip yoke on the rear drive shaft had been known to cause problems in the past (that was high up on our pre-test drive list). I also emphasized the importance of checking other possible trouble areas, such as the front C/V joints for the vibrations felt at all speeds. The front ball joints/control arms were just replaced and caster/camber shims were needed to restore allignment...FF said that this would change the angle on the C/V joints back to the factory position. However, the "factory position" of my front wheels always had a severe camber - looked like the engine was too heavy After 165K miles, the joints normal position had been altered...maybe this is causing secondary noise and vibration...maybe time to replace them anyhow?

So, for now, all eyes are on the rear shaft slip yoke. I'll let you know tomorrow what they find.

I also found out that ford uses a thin-walled grease gun that can fit into tight clearance fitting locations (like the fitting on the U-joint just rear of the T-case)...anybody know where I can find one of these thin-walled attachments?

I'll be back with the final fix...