Tokico..leafs..shocks..

[Anime]

Long travel shocks?

I was looking around the web for different suspension components and was wondering a few things.

First, I'm hopefully gonna get the warrior shackles for the rear, and perhaps later on if the springs straighten out, I might have to add an add-a-leaf or something. I was wondering if anyone has tried the Tokico version of it, or any Tokico products at all...I'd like to set up with this stuff, but only if it will handle off-road..I know Tokico is more famous for their on-road performance.

I've also been thinking of just having my original springs re-arched until I do get new longer ones. Is this a better option than an add-a-leaf or not worth the trouble? I hear its best to take off the load spring and add the leaf to get the height with increased travel and better ride?
I dont really tow alot or carry a ton of weight so I'm more interested in performance than load capacity.

Also, I plan on doing more suspension mods in the future to increase wheel travel substantially...(1" Coil springs, Extended radius arms, longer leafs, etc.) what brand and type of shocks (stock configuration & mounting) would be suggested to handle a good amount of travel? Will the stock length/damping allow all the travel I would need..even with the sway bars released? I see some of the photos of even newer Explorers getting alot of articulation from what loks almost stock...will a stock suspension with just the sway bars disconnected travel all the way into the fenderwell and droop down just as much?

I wanna go with Air shox in the rear and maybe Bilsteins in the front?

[Edited by Anime4x4 on 12-06-2000 at 10:22 AM]

 

[chad]

Anime, I have a 1992 Explorer with a James Duff lift and I can say that I have more travel with the kit than without it. One of the biggest factors in gaining articulation is shock length. In the rear with the swaybar connected I get a lot of travel with the new shocks and an add a leaf. The front is where you really need to work on longer shocks. To help the front on my truck I used the James Duff dual shock mount. This mount increases the shock length by about 1.5" over the stock mount. This mount combine with the lift gives me an 8" travel shock in the front, which means that at the wheel I get close to 10" of travel from full compresion to full extension. I am also looking into increasing the height of the dual shock mount to mount up 10" travel shocks and with the addition of longer radius arms I will expect close to 12" of travel at the front and close to the same or more in the back.

 

[Maniak]

Anime,
Just to give you a reference.. Here's a shot of our explorer with the Duff add-a-leaf and Warrior shackles. The rear flexes pretty good.. but as Chad said, the front is where you will need to spend some time trying to get the flex. The Duff Springs will help and the longer radius arms will also help.. Neither one will give you enough unless you do something about your shock mounts.. Right now our front shocks are our limiting factor up front. If I remove a shock i can get more than 3" more droop (don't drive it without the shocks) so our next upgrade will be to do something with teh front shocks..

 

[Anime]

2

Maniak that was sooo cool..I just submitted my post and apparently you did to..right after I did yours popped in above mine!

heh I'm kinda wary of the Duff Stuff now since someone on another post had a prob...I'm now seriously considering the OME suspension, but wonder if they think its suppossed to work without extended radius arms..especially if the lift is 2".

I'm trying to get an idea of if I can just replace my shox and get 2-3" more travel just by getting shocks that extend and compress better...like stock suspension but longer shocks? Obviously a new mounting will be needed.

It looks like replacing the springs front and rear will help too (plus more lift should allow the wheel to go up and bottom out before hitting the fender..not to mention looks beter)...thing is, is OME the best, or can I do like Rick and get National Springs and Doetsch Tech shocks for the same results as the OME? I'm not exactly clear if theres a big difference betwen the coil springs that lift the front, other than most are 1" and I hear theres a 2"?

Maniak...that looks GREAT...could you please list your suspension setup? Is that with factory springs and coils?
Also, In that pic, is one or both of your sway bars detached/released?

I'm also trying to find more info on the tricks the Ranger prerunners use to make longer travel radius arms with the stock brackets or something..I refuse to use any type of drop brackets for the extended radius arms.

So, basically anyone have info/experience with the OME and any other rear spring/front coil lift, AND, do the longer travel shocks/lift affect on-road handling very much? I hear it might IMPROVE handling?



[Edited by Anime4x4 on 12-06-2000 at 12:02 PM]

 

[Maniak]

Anime,
Sway bars?? we don't have no stinkin sway bars We removed both sway bars right after we got the truck and put on the rs900 shocks (even before the lift)..

Currently we have The duff drop brackets for the TTB and Duff 2.5" progressive springs. The front is lifted a good 2.5"

The rear is using OME 2" springs with Warrior Product shackles..

We have Rs9000 shocks.. rears are actually stock length since Rancho says to use the same shocks for their 2.5" lift as you would for a stock 1992. The fronts are definately longer than the stock..

The shocks are actually short all the way around.. When we put on the rear springs we had to lift the rear end off the ground (it was already mounted to the springs) to get the shocks on.

If you just get longer shocks you may get more droop but unless you also raise the upper shock mount you will bottom out the shock on the upstroke (unless you make bigger bump stops) which will break things..

If you don't want too much height and or can't afford teh OME rear springs you can do the zimmerman mod. You use a leaf from a Ranger and the pack from the explorer to make a new spring that will droop more.. Do a search on zimmerman mod and you will see all kinds of info on it.

As for not using drop brackets.. if you don't want to use drop brackets for the front suspension at all you will need to get cut/turned TTB. This isn't cheap but there are a few that are already made..

Here's a pic showing the suspension travel we get now with the OME springs and the broken in Duff front springs (I really like the Duff springs)

 

[Anime]

ok

This looks to be what I'm after

whats a good source for the OME products for the Explorer?

I think I'll be going with OME stuff all around, unless the price difference in the front coils is like nuts..as for shocks, that will depend on price difference too..but if stock length allows that much articulation in back (still trying to figure out how to work everything together with new leafs, shackles, and the skid plate for the u-bolts)
all I'm looking into now is how to mount the front shock. I dont really want a dual setup, and will be using sway bar disconnects..

The Zimmermans have tons of great original mods..but I'm not really in a position to fab stuff up so I figure my springs are worn anyway, so drop a little extra for something new. However, unless I find something better, I will be trying to come up with a similar Radius Arm setup.
Still trying to figure out how you can still have lotsa droop with the top mount further up and the lower mount further down..heh.

No way on the cut TTB..I dont need it..thats for lift/travel..I just want travel and maybe minimal lift to get it. Longer/Modified radius arms..which if
done correctly (this is what I hear) can be mounted without drop brackets, which break and bend anyway.

Do you have any pix of how the truck sits on level ground?
Just wanna see how much fenderwell clearance there is with the OME springs and Warrior shackles. Also, what size tires are those? Thanks for your help btw..


[Edited by Anime4x4 on 12-06-2000 at 02:19 PM]

 

[chad]

If you do not want to change your entire suspension Duff's dual shock mount is a bolt on affair that can be used on a non lifted truck. There is a link on this site somewhere showing how to mount the dual shock setup on an Explorer. What it does is adds one more shock to each side and raises the stock mount by about 2" maybe 2.5" also with the dual shocks I am told that you do not have to have the front sway bar. The dual shock mount minus shocks is $125 the shocks run about another $130 which is better than the longer radius arms at $272 plus the cross member.

 

[Maniak]

Anime4x4,
Here is a Picture I took of our explorer sitting on level ground.

The "zimmerman mod" is normally refering to the leaf spring mod. This isn't that hard of a mod. The TTB twist is a big deal and it doesn't sound like you need it. We are eventually going to the Duff extended arms and I am going to cut/move the upper shock mount to give some more room for a longer shock.

The tires are 32"x11.50 BFG ATs. You would have to notch your front bumper some to clear those tires with the 2.5" lift alone. Currently I can stuff the front tires into the fenderwell enough to get them to hit the air box on the passenger side and the inner fenderwell on the driver side (I don't have the passenger inner fenderwell installed at the moment)..

I don't know how to explain why messing with the shock mounts will give you more travel.. but If I reaise the lower shock mount on the rear shocks and use the same length shock I can get more droop (and hopefully not lose any up travel).. Hopefully someone else can explain it better.





[Edited by Maniak on 12-07-2000 at 10:13 AM]

 

[RobbieJ]

I have the James Duff radius arms and the mount for the fron shock sucks! It seems to me that I was designed for use with the double shock set up. The front shock hits on the radius arm when you tighten the bottom shock bolt all of the way. It really limits the travel. If you tightn it too much it will even smash and dent the shock. Hmmm I wonder if James Duff Knows about this?. I may try to get in tuch with them and see what they say. Other then that the arms are awesome and very strong. Jsut my $00.02

 

[Anime]

eh

Where did you get your OME rear leaf springs? I've been checking around and everyone says OME doesnt make anything for the Explorer! Are they from a different vehicle? If so, is the eyelet hole the same? (i.e. can I use my Explorer urethane bushings?)

The more I think about it, I really just want factory height back or maybe a little more lift..do the OME springs add alot? I'm definitely getting the warrior shackles for travel, but I dont want 4" of lift in the back..should I just get stock height leafs? Any suggestions for brands?

I'm still also wondering about the lower shock mounts with skidplates...if i use these and raise the bottom mount, like you say that will give more droop, but I'm unsure of the up travel...I dont wanna be bottoming out my shox.

to match the rear, I need suggestions on stock or 1" raised progressive rate coil springs...whats the best? It looks like the best setup would be the longer radius arms with a custom extension for just one shock top mount...anyone make these? I dont need or want dual shox in front..plus itd look dumb having two in front and one in back..and I want to keep my sway bar as well..

However, if youre able to get fenderwell contact with your tires, I dont need any more than that..especially if I only have 1-2" lift max so can I just run the factory radius arms and just find a better front shock? I think any more than fenderwell rub (fenderwell bash) will just damage the truck. BTW Do you still have the factory rubber bushings on your RAs or urethane? I hear the factory rubber ones are actually better for travel, but I kinda want the urethane for road handling..

BTW as far as shox, are Duffs the stuff or would say, Bilsteins in the front and back or maybe air shox in the back be ok for off road or do bilsteins not excel in this department? (Tokicos?)

[Edited by Anime4x4 on 12-09-2000 at 09:25 AM]

 

[RobbieJ]

I get the same thing sometimes just be assertive I think the springs are for 95+ eplorers when I went to buy my warrior shackles I guy thought I was insane he had no idea that warrior products made shackles for explorers.

 

[Anime]

?

95+? is there a difference in the springs or is the OME a single leaf or what?

If i get the shackles and the OME spring isnt that gonna raise my rig alot? (1.5-2" from shackles, 2" from OME springs...what i hear) I just want 2" overall max..hopefully I can just use stock height replacements or 1" lift max in the front.

 

[Maniak]

The OME springs are Part Number OME-36. They are desinged for a 96 Explorer and are a spring pack (not a single spring).. The Warrior Shackles are also designed for a 2nd generation explorer but they fit the first generation just fine. I got mine used from Rick (they weren't tall enough for him).

The springs are 2" lift.. and the shackles are 1.5" of lift if you currently have the 5.5" long shackles (Warrior 153 shackles are 8.5" long)

 

[Anime]

ok

heh I dont wanna 3.5 in lift...as much as i want OME springs...soooo
opinions and part #'s on who makes the best factory height replacement leafs and coils? Please?

 

[Maniak]

If you want factory height rear springs but still want the flex, you only real option is a set of Factory Leaf Springs (pack, not single spring) and do the Zimmerman Mod. I'm not sure if he still has them, but Rick (admin) had a set sitting besides his garage. The modification isn't that hard to do.. You basically use part of a ranger spring pack and part of an explorer spring pack to make a spring pack that flexes more..
If you do want a little lift (2") then I would use the OME springs and not use the Warrior shackles.. Stock springs that are worn with a short add-a-leaf and warrior shackles will give you about 1" of lift (maybe 1.5") and will flex very well, but will also sag sooner than the OME springs..

 

[Anime]

gah

Well I definitely wanted the warrior shackles since its a cheap small lift, and would increase travel a ton over the factory one which bottoms out after just moving back an inch..I hate that. I think I'd be minimizing the benefit of OME leafs if i kept the stock shackles.
I've read that a prerunner trick is to use an add a leaf, but take away the load helper spring to allow a better ride and travel..would this work on the explorer ya think or only on a pickup? (The back end of the explorer being enclosed and holding about 250-500lbs of junk as opposed to a pickup bed)

I'm considering more and more just to use the shackles with the stock springs and get performance coils for the front..and if I need to level it out, do the add-a leaf thingy to the rear. Who makes a good SHORT add a leaf?

I'd absolutely love to just do both shackles and OME springs on the rear, I just dont think its going to sit right with only a 1" coil lift on the front..plus the alignment and radius arm issues..bleah.

Maniak are all the photos you posted of your ride when it had the duff add a leafs and not the OME? Like I was saying before..if its just add a leafs and shackles and youre drooping and tuckin like that..I dont need much more.

One other thing..if OME makes leafs for the rear of the 96, and we're usin them on the 91-94s, why havent they figured out this works too and make front coils to compliment it? Dang retail business...

BTW I wouldnt think Rick would have parts on the side of his garage..from the pix he posts, it looks like he lives in one of those fancy developments where everything looks like the movies and if you have a scrap of trash on the side of your house or garage (let alone auto parts ::Gasp: or if your lawn isnt mowed every two days, you get a ticket and a fine.

 

[Maniak]

The first picture is with 31" tires and the Duff add-a-leafs (short ones). The post with the 2 pictures is with the OME springs and WAR 153 shackles. Keep in mind that I had them installed wrong (the add-a-leaf). They were under the Overloads so I was really running with just stock springs.. Once I fixed that I did not lose any droop and it picked the pack end up about 3/4" or so..

If you are bottoming out your shackles now then I agree.. get the shackles now and not the OME springs. The longer shackle will not help you droop much (if any) but it should help your stuff.. As you stuff the tire up.. the shackle tries to go towards the back.. with the Warrior shackle it can go farther before it hits the frame (if it even will.. I never looked)

The only add-a-leaf I've used is the Duff add-a-leaf. it seems to work well but I don't knwo how long it will last since we changed from the stock+add-a-leaf to the OME springs in <1year.

If I remember correctly Ricks house isn't part of a housing community.. there is a "Bull" in a pen across the street

 

[Anime]

hey

Do you still have your add-a-leafs? Still want em? How much were they and whats the part#s from duff (theyre not on their site)

How was the performance from the add a leafs when combined with the load spring and all that? Harsh?

I'm just thinkin on the travel..if one side tucks under, the other side HAS to droop the same amount (on a solid axle that is)..might I break something if I'm not positive I've gained as much up travel as down travel?