Transmission Fluid Changes

[RonParise]

When I did a preemptive replacement of the water pump on my 2011 Limited. I decided to keep this thing forever. Im no car guy, so all I know in terms of required maintenance is what's in the owners manual. and Im learning that that's probably not a good thing, given the fact that there is nothing in the owners manual about the water pump issue

Regarding the transmission.
Per the owners manual, I had transmission service done at 150000 miles Im at 300000 miles now, and I learned that all that was done at 150000 miles was a drain and fill, which means only 4 quarts have been replaced in 300000 miles. And Im also learning that service every 150000 miles is probably not enough.

So heres what Im doing.. Im in the middle of replacing all the oil, 4 quarts at a time. At each oil change, Im draining 4 quarts out of the transmission and adding 4 quarts,,,, Which brings me to my questions.

I know that the transmission filter cant be changed, Which makes no sense to me at all. I mean, why have a filter to catch contaminants if it cant be changed? What happens if the filter becomes clogged, is the flow of oil impeded. or is there a bypass? And my big question: does it make sense to add an external filter?

 

[ncsuengineer256]

Hi Ron,

I did a drain and fill about 10k miles ago at ~45k miles. I'm curious, at 150k, how did the transmission fluid look?

I don't think there is a bypass. Which transmission do you have? Mine has the 6F50. All it has is a drain plug at the bottom. I'm not sure how you would even add a bypass.

With respect to the filter, the only way I know to change it is to split the case open. That means dropping the transmission, tons of labor to do that.

 

[RonParise]

My Explorer is a 2011 Limited 3.5 L V6 2 wheel drive. I think the only transmission available was the 6 speed, but I dont know. I have a drain plug on the bottom . and a fluid level plug on the side and a dipstick/fill on the top, under the air filter box. I have the tow package on this car so Im pretty sure there is a transmission cooler with hose lines in and out of the transmission , I would, if I determine it would be advantageous to do so, install an in-line filter in one of these hoses

When I had a drain and fill done at 150000 miles the oil was black.
at 280000 miles, another drain and fill, and the oil was black. I sent a sample of this oil to Blackstone Labs. Analysis showed high wear metals
at 300000 another drain and fill, and a sample sent off to the lab. The concentration of the wear metals was less

The theory of the case is that in the first several thousand miles (break in) a fair amount of metal, ended up in the oil but once broken in very little wear is taking place. Now each time I do a drain and fill the concentration of metals ought to go down (unless of course I have a problem I dont know about)

Since I posted my questions I found a you-tube video that made the case that a transmission filter never needs to be changed. His argument is that there shouldnt be anything in a transmission for the filter to catch. So if the filter becomes clogged You have bigger problems than the clogged filter

 

[FordSVTGuy]

I have the 2017 version with same set-up. I did the first drain and refill at 35,000 miles and the fluid was dark red. I plan to do another one or two this summer at 43,000 to get a larger percentage of the original fluid out. I’m not at all concerned about the filter/screen as I’m trying to address cleaning via the fluid changes. Sounds like you are doing the best for your transmission given the mileage.

 

[94Eddie]

When I did a preemptive replacement of the water pump on my 2011 Limited. I decided to keep this thing forever. Im no car guy, so all I know in terms of required maintenance is what's in the owners manual. and Im learning that that's probably not a good thing, given the fact that there is nothing in the owners manual about the water pump issue

Regarding the transmission.
Per the owners manual, I had transmission service done at 150000 miles Im at 300000 miles now, and I learned that all that was done at 150000 miles was a drain and fill, which means only 4 quarts have been replaced in 300000 miles. And Im also learning that service every 150000 miles is probably not enough.

So heres what Im doing.. Im in the middle of replacing all the oil, 4 quarts at a time. At each oil change, Im draining 4 quarts out of the transmission and adding 4 quarts,,,, Which brings me to my questions.

I know that the transmission filter cant be changed, Which makes no sense to me at all. I mean, why have a filter to catch contaminants if it cant be changed? What happens if the filter becomes clogged, is the flow of oil impeded. or is there a bypass? And my big question: does it make sense to add an external filter?

If you have an AWD vehicle one of the most overlooked components of the drive train regarding maintenance it the PTU (Power Transfer Unit). It has little fluid in it and it is baked from its nearness to the engine and catalytic convertors. It should be changed every 30k-40k miles along with a drain and refill of the transmission. If you are still on the original PTU and the fluid has never been changed then it is a miracle it is still functioning and I would recommend a few 5k interval drain and refills to try and flush some of the accumulated gunk out of it. I have seen PTUs where the fluid has turned to grease with less than half the miles on them that you have.

Congrats on the 300k mark. Also, preemptively replacing the water pump was a good idea. If we keep my wife's Edge we will do the same sometime around 125K-140k miles.

 

[ncsuengineer256]

If you have an AWD vehicle one of the most overlooked components of the drive train regarding maintenance it the PTU (Power Transfer Unit). It has little fluid in it and it is baked from its nearness to the engine and catalytic convertors. It should be changed every 30k-40k miles along with a drain and refill of the transmission. If you are still on the original PTU and the fluid has never been changed then it is a miracle it is still functioning and I would recommend a few 5k interval drain and refills to try and flush some of the accumulated gunk out of it. I have seen PTUs where the fluid has turned to grease with less than half the miles on them that you have.

Congrats on the 300k mark. Also, preemptively replacing the water pump was a good idea. If we keep my wife's Edge we will do the same sometime around 125K-140k miles.

Thanks 94Eddie for answering my next question! Since folks are talking about the dreaded internal water pump, I was wondering when folks were preemptively replacing it.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Once metals are in the oil they don’t “break down” and cause little wear. Metals in the oil continually scour and damage things. They also didn’t come from the first thousands of miles. Transmissions shed materials as they wear, it’s why the filter is so important. I’d puke all the fluid out via the cooling line to the transmission. Then I’d put an external filter on it.

 

[CDW6212R]

Ditto. Automatics are made to operate properly with very clean ATF, any material in it is bad, especially for the VB and its tiny passages. The VB controls everything along with the solenoids, those are the weakest links in an automatic.

I would replace as much of the ATF as possible, at 50k miles or less, plus an external filter. I don't know which Ford automatics have no dipstick, but there is at least one aftermarket pan available for one of those without a dipstick. I would hunt for a better pan if the trans is one of those type.

I'd drop the pan no matter what though, I want to see what material is in the pan.

 

[Explorer75]

When I did a preemptive replacement of the water pump on my 2011 Limited. I decided to keep this thing forever. Im no car guy, so all I know in terms of required maintenance is what's in the owners manual. and Im learning that that's probably not a good thing, given the fact that there is nothing in the owners manual about the water pump issue

Regarding the transmission.
Per the owners manual, I had transmission service done at 150000 miles Im at 300000 miles now, and I learned that all that was done at 150000 miles was a drain and fill, which means only 4 quarts have been replaced in 300000 miles. And Im also learning that service every 150000 miles is probably not enough.

So heres what Im doing.. Im in the middle of replacing all the oil, 4 quarts at a time. At each oil change, Im draining 4 quarts out of the transmission and adding 4 quarts,,,, Which brings me to my questions.

I know that the transmission filter cant be changed, Which makes no sense to me at all. I mean, why have a filter to catch contaminants if it cant be changed? What happens if the filter becomes clogged, is the flow of oil impeded. or is there a bypass? And my big question: does it make sense to add an external filter?

I can give you info from my experience. Bought my 13 XLT with 50k, checked the manual and it says 150k for fluid replacement. The fluid was already dark brown, no burnt smell. No way I was going to wait 150k. Did a drain and refill and used 4.5 qts, I measured the amount drained first. The I found an interesting spreadsheet, it´s called Partial Drain Helper. You will put the total transmission fluid capacity (in my case is 10.8 qts) and the quantity refilled. That will tell you the % of old and new fluid and projection of how many quarts you will need to reach a desired %. In my case I was shooting for 93% new fluid but ended getting to 96% for a whooping 6 drains and refills. That was after months. At first I did 1 drain and refill each week and after 4 you get about 88%, which is pretty good. Then I did the 5th at the next oil change and the 6th just for the kicks. Many people criticized this method because it wastes a lot of fluid vs a flush. But the benefits of several drains and refills is that: 1. You can do it yourself, 2. will not be shock to the transmission, sometimes when you change all the fluid at once bad things happen, that´s why many mechanics don´t want to change transmission fluid. 3. You don´t have to disconnect any hoses, only the drain plug and fill cap.

I´m including the Partial Drain Helper Download Link + the Workshop Manual procedure to check the level afterwards. The manual states to refill with 4.5 qts and check, that actually was spot on for a full mark on my dipstick. Let me know if you need any more help.

Partial Drain Helper

 

[ncsuengineer256]

Ditto. Automatics are made to operate properly with very clean ATF, any material in it is bad, especially for the VB and its tiny passages. The VB controls everything along with the solenoids, those are the weakest links in an automatic.

I would replace as much of the ATF as possible, at 50k miles or less, plus an external filter. I don't know which Ford automatics have no dipstick, but there is at least one aftermarket pan available for one of those without a dipstick. I would hunt for a better pan if the trans is one of those type.

I'd drop the pan no matter what though, I want to see what material is in the pan.

Yeah, this was my thought. I've been doing a drain and fill every 15k - 20k miles.

The 6F50 transmission, which comes on the 2wd model, doesn't have a pan . You'd have to drop the trans and split the case to get to the filter. It does have a dip stick, however. So there's a small silver lining .

 

[ncsuengineer256]

I can give you info from my experience. Bought my 13 XLT with 50k, checked the manual and it says 150k for fluid replacement. The fluid was already dark brown, no burnt smell. No way I was going to wait 150k. Did a drain and refill and used 4.5 qts, I measured the amount drained first. The I found an interesting spreadsheet, it´s called Partial Drain Helper. You will put the total transmission fluid capacity (in my case is 10.8 qts) and the quantity refilled. That will tell you the % of old and new fluid and projection of how many quarts you will need to reach a desired %. In my case I was shooting for 93% new fluid but ended getting to 96% for a whooping 6 drains and refills. That was after months. At first I did 1 drain and refill each week and after 4 you get about 88%, which is pretty good. Then I did the 5th at the next oil change and the 6th just for the kicks. Many people criticized this method because it wastes a lot of fluid vs a flush. But the benefits of several drains and refills is that: 1. You can do it yourself, 2. will not be shock to the transmission, sometimes when you change all the fluid at once bad things happen, that´s why many mechanics don´t want to change transmission fluid. 3. You don´t have to disconnect any hoses, only the drain plug and fill cap.

I´m including the Partial Drain Helper Download Link + the Workshop Manual procedure to check the level afterwards. The manual states to refill with 4.5 qts and check, that actually was spot on for a full mark on my dipstick. Let me know if you need any more help.

Partial Drain Helper

Explorer75, this is a huge help!! Thank you so much for this!

 

[Explorer75]

Explorer75, this is a huge help!! Thank you so much for this!

You´re welcome!

 

[CDW6212R]

Yeah, this was my thought. I've been doing a drain and fill every 15k - 20k miles.

The 6F50 transmission, which comes on the 2wd model, doesn't have a pan . You'd have to drop the trans and split the case to get to the filter.

That is messed up, that's even worse than not having a dipstick. I want a pan and full access to the filter, and be able to drain 100% of the fluid out. I know it's not feasable with any trans, mainly because the VB traps at least two quarts up inside and above it. But in older models before the five speeds, you can drain the torque converter completely(4 quarts), plus the pan gets all but a couple quarts out. When I did my prior 98 4R70W, I installed a new deep pan(adds two quarts), and it took 14+quarts of Mercon V to do it. I had the VB out to install a few Sonnax items, plus the cooler line off, so it was completely empty.

 

[94Eddie]

Yeah, this was my thought. I've been doing a drain and fill every 15k - 20k miles.

The 6F50 transmission, which comes on the 2wd model, doesn't have a pan . You'd have to drop the trans and split the case to get to the filter.

I am not sure about the size of the filters in the 6F50 transmissions but if it is similar to ones in a typical RWD vehicle it might last a very long time. It takes a lot of miles to clog one if the transmission is in good condition. If one is clogged then the transmission has seen a catastrophic failure. If a transmission is maintained well the filter (if sized properly) could easily last for a very long time.

 

[ncsuengineer256]

That is messed up, that's even worse than not having a dipstick. I want a pan and full access to the filter, and be able to drain 100% of the fluid out. I know it's not feasable with any trans, mainly because the VB traps at least two quarts up inside and above it. But in older models before the five speeds, you can drain the torque converter completely(4 quarts), plus the pan gets all but a couple quarts out. When I did my prior 98 4R70W, I installed a new deep pan(adds two quarts), and it took 14+quarts of Mercon V to do it. I had the VB out to install a few Sonnax items, plus the cooler line off, so it was completely empty.

I'm with ya. I think it's strange that it's so difficult to get to the filter. And I can't imagine how many drain and refills it takes to get new, clean fluid into the torque converter.

 

[Explorer75]

That is messed up, that's even worse than not having a dipstick. I want a pan and full access to the filter, and be able to drain 100% of the fluid out. I know it's not feasable with any trans, mainly because the VB traps at least two quarts up inside and above it. But in older models before the five speeds, you can drain the torque converter completely(4 quarts), plus the pan gets all but a couple quarts out. When I did my prior 98 4R70W, I installed a new deep pan(adds two quarts), and it took 14+quarts of Mercon V to do it. I had the VB out to install a few Sonnax items, plus the cooler line off, so it was completely empty.

The thing is you are comparing a transmission with a transaxle. In the transaxle, you can replace the filter but it just to expensive, you are better off keeping the fluid fresh.

 

[94Eddie]

That is messed up, that's even worse than not having a dipstick. I want a pan and full access to the filter, and be able to drain 100% of the fluid out. I know it's not possible with any trans, mainly because the VB traps at least two quarts up inside and above it. But in older models before the five speeds, you can drain the torque converter completely(4 quarts), plus the pan gets all but a couple quarts out. When I did my prior 98 4R70W, I installed a new deep pan(adds two quarts), and it took 14+quarts of Mercon V to do it. I had the VB out to install a few Sonnax items, so it was completely empty.

The problem with transverse mounted engines is there is very little room to install the transmission. It is compact and there isn't enough length to add a pan.

 

[ncsuengineer256]

The problem with transverse mounted engines is there is very little room to install the transmission. It is compact and there isn't enough length to add a pan.

I wish Ford had kept the 2wd as rear wheel drive on this generation.

We probably wouldn't have to deal with an internal water pump and accessing the transmission would be much easier. Oh well, can't change the past.

 

[CDW6212R]

The problem with transverse mounted engines is there is very little room to install the transmission. It is compact and there isn't enough length to add a pan.

That's very true. But it doesn't need to be a huge pan, like the very long 6R80 pan. Just a small hand sized pan would do. That could be enough to get a filter off, and get a look at the lowest point where material builds up.

 

[CDW6212R]

I wish Ford had kept the 2wd as rear wheel drive on this generation.

We probably wouldn't have to deal with an internal water pump and accessing the transmission would be much easier. Oh well, can't change the past.

Many things Ford does is an experiment, to learn, and they do with our experiences and money. I like Ford, but they sure do know how to make mistakes.