TROLL where ya at? changing engine parts

[rocket 5979]

wow thanks guys

hey thanks for your long post i really appreciate you taking the time to inform me how to do this right. if the ways you are saying will get me about over 350 hp then i am ALL for it doing it that way. now you said for all the parts, is that the parts just for the engine? or does that include the suspension stuff too? when i get back i will have about $5000 to spend on my vehicle for all this stuff. including the bigger stuff to install at a garage being that i have very very limited knowledge and resources for the bigger stuff. all the smaller stuff i could probably handle. the only way i would try to tackle the bigger stuff on the inside of the engine is if i had someone there with me that knew what they were doing. but being that i am in the military all my buddies that are mechanics are back in arizona. and i am stuck(i mean stationed, lol) in mississippi. i will be starting this project in about january or february of next year. thanks again for the information.

 

[Guy Groves]

I was talking engine only. My estimate was off the top-of-my-head.

My suggestion:
Put together a spreadsheet and start listing everything you will need. Do some pricing from a local retailer, junkyard (for some parts), and discount parts store on line. You will have to come up with your own estimate.

Since you don't feel comfortable about doing something like heads yourself then I have the following recomendation....
Talk around to other modified car owners, and shops. You will pay a little more, but you will need to buy the parts and labor from the same place. If you find a good wrench treat him well and he will treat you well. In the long run you will save money and headaches.


Just something to consider:
Search around for information on your existing P style heads. These are good heads, they are the GT head basic design with straighter runners and better spark plug geometry. It might be more economical to use your exsting heads, have them ported and possibly polished a bit (I don't think polishing would give you noticable HP), get a better than stock valve train (5 angle valve job, roller rockers (possibly 1.7 ratio), the right valve springs, and a cam that suits your needs.

If you by a set of trick flow heads for about $1100 you still need to get roller rockers, carbon fiber gasket, possibly new valve rods, and a new cam to make the power.

Also, If you go with new heads check out the value of the P heads you have. They are in demand and can be resold to offset some of your cost.

Sounds like you have some time, start putting together a game plan and cost it out. You will find out real quick what you can do and when.

Since you already dropped your suspension 2" what have you done for the springs and shockes? what came with the kit, what is recomended and what upgrades do they recomend?

Upgrade sway bars are about $150 each.

Maby adjustable shocks are in order.

I don't know the details of your brakes, but an upgrade in the front might be wise. Start researching.

I'm big on making lists and plans. Be honest about what you really want, can afford, and how you will really drive the vehicle. I can't stress this enough. If you don't have a plan you will waste time and money, and probably end up with something that you are unhappy with.

 

[mikeresin]

Originally posted by Guy Groves
I was talking engine only. My estimate was off the top-of-my-head.

My suggestion:
Put together a spreadsheet and start listing everything you will need. Do some pricing from a local retailer, junkyard (for some parts), and discount parts store on line. You will have to come up with your own estimate.

Since you don't feel comfortable about doing something like heads yourself then I have the following recomendation....
Talk around to other modified car owners, and shops. You will pay a little more, but you will need to buy the parts and labor from the same place. If you find a good wrench treat him well and he will treat you well. In the long run you will save money and headaches.


Just something to consider:
Search around for information on your existing P style heads. These are good heads, they are the GT head basic design with straighter runners and better spark plug geometry. It might be more economical to use your exsting heads, have them ported and possibly polished a bit (I don't think polishing would give you noticable HP), get a better than stock valve train (5 angle valve job, roller rockers (possibly 1.7 ratio), the right valve springs, and a cam that suits your needs.

If you by a set of trick flow heads for about $1100 you still need to get roller rockers, carbon fiber gasket, possibly new valve rods, and a new cam to make the power.

Also, If you go with new heads check out the value of the P heads you have. They are in demand and can be resold to offset some of your cost.

Sounds like you have some time, start putting together a game plan and cost it out. You will find out real quick what you can do and when.

Since you already dropped your suspension 2" what have you done for the springs and shockes? what came with the kit, what is recomended and what upgrades do they recomend?

Upgrade sway bars are about $150 each.

Maby adjustable shocks are in order.

I don't know the details of your brakes, but an upgrade in the front might be wise. Start researching.

I'm big on making lists and plans. Be honest about what you really want, can afford, and how you will really drive the vehicle. I can't stress this enough. If you don't have a plan you will waste time and money, and probably end up with something that you are unhappy with.

with trick flow heads you need 6.25 push rods

 

[james t]

one other suggestion- find some 88-95 5.0 Mustang guys in your area and become friends with them. go talk to local guys with 5.0's that are fast. and not the "i paid to have my car built" guys, the ones that did most of the work themselves. you will learn alot. most mustang guys (the ones i know, anyway) think it is a cool idea to have a built 5.0 in an explorer, and will proly help you with ideas and point you in the right direction.

 

[PUR PONY]

sorry if someone already answered this but i dont have time to read all the posts.

Troll is not using a stock production 5.0 block in is truck. He is using an A4 basically the same as an R302 block which are Heavy Duty Race blocks by FMS. The stock 302 block is rated for around 500-550 hp to the fly wheel. Although many have been up above that HP rating on a factory block... the tuning my be exact to keep the engine together.

All 347s are kits. The real stroker kit as far as i know is really a 342/343.... you get the 347 by using the 342/343 stroker kit and boring the cylinders over 30 thousands = 347.

You can go anyway you would like with a 347 stroker.... you can use your stock block, however machining will be required, or an aftermarket 302 block which still has to be machined. then you need a stroker kit.... which can either be forged, billet, or cast. Most go with the Forged because it is strong and can hold up to high NOS or Boost. Most production cars have Cast internals which are the weakest of the three. Billet is the strongest but costs 2 -3 times most forged kits.

The most stroker kits consit of a crank, rods, pistons, rings.
To do it correct you also want to get the engined balanced and blueprinted.

There are a million companys out there that produce complete stroked motors (like 347s) the engine Troll is using is just built by that engine builder. Most engine builders all use the same kits.... eagle, scat, coast high..... the difference between many engine builders though are quality and precission....... if you have a guy build your engine who has not clue as to what he is doing, or someone that does not hold high tolerance you WILL have a problem. Look around and ask questions from different engine builders. there are MANY out there that will build you a 347 any way you like it. And remember.... it doesnt matter how well the engine was built or the internal componets..... its got to be tuned correctly to make it run and last.

Also- a blower motor you want low compression. The blower creates compression and in turn creates HP.... most blower motors are 8:1, 8.5:1, and 9:1...... stay away from a 10:1 and higher if you plan to run boost. If you want to stay natural then 10:1 or 11:1 is the only way to go (higher HP) but after 11:1 your going to have to use above 94 octane .....


You will also need a tranny.... mine has been holding up fine with the 400hp i have been producing... 100,000 miles and still going strong...

I am thinking about going with a 393 stroker....... I just dont know the limits of the AWD transfer case.... we will see

good luck

 

[LowdPypes]

AWD... good or bad?

Tell ya what. I really have no clue of the limits of the AWD system but it can't be too shabby. I am pushing around 500hp and doing 1/4 in the high 13's to lower 14's. That's some huge stress on the AWD system and my truck (knock on wood) runs great. Still get that damn whine though... anyone else get this?

 

[rocket 5979]

hey lowdpipes is that including nitrous? could you give me a list of what all engine preformance mods you have? including the exhaust headers and stuff. thanks alot.

 

[rocket 5979]

could anyond tell me of a good supercharger that would fit my car without modification? i have done a search and it seems that there are never any drop in superchargers. you alwaqys have to machine a custom fit part for it. also could anyone tell me what kind of supercharger do they think is beter for racing?

 

[rocket 5979]

woops.

 

[LowdPypes]

obviously it's just my opinion...

Ah, yes... superchargers. If you want drop in, then the powerdyne will do. If you purchase the WHOLE kit (unlike me) then there really isn't much to it besides following directions. I knew enough people and machine shops that fabing stuff was a little easier for me. I know a few tricks if you were to pickup a used one from a mustang to make it work but if you have the money, go for the powerdyne. Out of box, you get around 40-50% hp increase with a 6lb pulley. I have a 9lb and Pur Pony, I believe, has an 11lb. My truck runs fairly deascent with some dumb problems (not related to performance) that I have to fix. If you want full specs, I have a page on www.cardomain.com that you can check out. Just look under Mercury Mountaineer. You can't miss it. Those times are NOT including NOS. I don't run NOS on the track. Just a personal thing. I am also losing street power due to my tire/wheel setup but I run slicks on the track. I beleive that you can get more boost out of a centrifugal on our engine that you can with the explorer express (eaton) roots type. Granted, I like the roots type better but I can't complain with this one. I put a kevlar belt on it and it runs great. Possibly even better than the Leaf Blower... hehe.

 

[rocket 5979]

hey lowdpypes. you said the times on the quarter are not including nos but is the close to 500 hp include nos? i would think it would just being that the stock 302 produces about what like 215 hp and then add a supercharger and you got about 300 hp. then the cam and mafs chip and exhaust and you should be pushing about mid to high 300's right? then the nos 100 shot would put you there. am i guessing right when i say this? is there any reason why you picked that cam? also i saw your pic of your intake yet it said cobra intake in the other description below the pic. i know xplorers have the gt-40p heads which have the 40p intake which is the old cobra intake is that what you meant or did you get an aftermarket intake too? the reason i am asking you all these questions is because it seems you have already done exactly what i want to do. i started out with intentions of just jumping to a 347 built like TROLL, but it would be a little too much including the suspension and work for me to afford. plus it seemed a little more complicated than what you have done. correct me if i am wrong but an E-303 am is just a more aggresive ford cam right? is there any other besides that you would recommend having now tested and had that one to drive on for a while? also does pur pony have anything done to the block or heads of his engine? i.e. strengthening? i am still deciding what s/c boost pulley i want to get and i heard the bigger you get the more pressure which in turn gives you more stress to deal with controlling. thanks again.

 

[rocket 5979]

any parts #'s on the powerdyne supercharger? i see a few bd-11's but they all have the 6 lb. pulley. i take it you got the upgrade kit too? our require the 90 degree mounting kit correct?

 

[rocket 5979]

which exact model?

hey so i went to the powerdyne website and am looking at the explorer units. i got a 2000 5.0 so i would venture to guess that the s/c for the 99 would work for mine. i think i am right. also the kit here--->X s/c kit plus the bigger boost pulley here--->better boost pulley would be the best route to go with my setup i want. correct? once again thanks for all the help.

 

[LowdPypes]

yes... ?

hehe... all that and my response is yes. The NOS put me right at 517hp on the Dyno. I chose the e-303 because of Pur Pony's recommendation and I also have one in my mustang. Gives the that nice purr and changed my rpm range enough to get the most out of my NOS system. The only intake work I have done was boring and polishing. As for heads, I have not ventured into yet. I don't have the garage nor the knowledge (yet) to go lifting my engine out of the truck. Everything I did, I did without lifting the engine. I don't think that Pur Pony has done anything too aggressive to his truck as we have pretty much the same setup. I did install a cobra MAFS and NOS and stuff but all in all, nothing insane. As for my S/C kit... well, not even a kit. As most won't want me getting into this again but I bought it off of an Explorer Buddy on the site and he totally f&(*#$ed me over because I wound up having to get most of the stuff made.

Here's a side note... the "NEW CRANKSHAFT PULLEY" they (powerdyne) sends you, is the EXACT same one on your truck except they mill it out enough to drop in a spacer. If you bought that part seperate from them (which I did to get the inner diameter then sent it back) it would cost you $400! I took mine to the mill shop and had it done for $25. Some other parts which are a waste is the overflow for $60 ($14 from summit), Alternator bracket for $200 (made for about $8) and airbox for $85 (got on ebay for $9). I took my time but I saved a S*#&$load of money.

Anyway, the kit the guy sent me did not have the new crankshaft pulley (seems as though he sent me the one he ripped off his truck when he installed it. so that is how I know that. He id send me a few extra pulley's 6, 9, 10lb. I am running the 9 lb but I still think I need a new belt cause the one I bought squeeks like crazy. Not much time to play anymore with the new house and all. If you want pics of my engine and the brackets and junk, I can take some, just let me know. I painted all my brackets plum purple cause I didn't like that stupid gray color so they are easy to see now. Just hope I never have any alternator problems... yikes! You'll have to rip the blower out if you do.

About the 99 one for yours... I am guessing that it would work but you may have some space issues or something. I know I sold a the MAC intake out of mine to a friend with a 97 and it did not fit half as nice in there as mine. Call powerdyne. They are jerks (sorry, bad experience) but they will tell you if it will work. If you want, I have pdf's of the install I could email you. Good luck with everything and feel free to email me or whatever. God'speed'.

 

[rocket 5979]

hey man thanks for the reply. that would be awesome if i could get those pics and possibly the pdf's from ya. i am still getting all the bugs worked out but i think i will be able to make my goal when i get back. thanks again.

 

[Troll]

517hp! Are you joking. Put it on the Dyno and you will be very unhappy. I had more mods than you with my stock motor and I only made 300 hp with 10 psi of boost on my powerdyne. Even if I had added NOS I would have to put 200 in it to make 500 hp. Your awd system is sucking up more hp than my 2wd setup as well. I started breaking race prepped AOD-E's at 400 hp so I doubt you are making that much hp with you stock tranny. Giving you the benifit of the doubt I am guessing you are making about 360 hp at most with your setup. What was your exact 1/4 mile time and weight?

 

[Robb]

...........as memories of 2Fast4Nos pass through my head........

 

[LowdPypes]

i know... i know...

Dyno times were with the front driveshaft disconnected... no one in this town has a four wheel dyno. 1/4 mile times are not efficient enough to even go bragging about because the only track around here just does times. They have no heavy weight scales or anything spectacular. There is a drag coming up that should give me real times with printed out sheets of weight and peak hp specs. I assure you that I will post them as soon as I get them. We threw it on a dyno and it registered 417 w/o NOS. The dyno my friend has wasn't like the one that I saw on your video. This one was actually in the floor of the garage. Do you think that the calibration or whatever could be off? 417 isn't too far off your guess though... hopefully everything is right.

 

[blk mk8]

well to get that much power on a stock explorer setup it must have been a spike on the dyno. there is no way those numbers could even be close to right. also if they change the altitude correction factors to much it could make you number apear to be way more then they are. with that much power it should still go a 12 spining tire. at 112 plus.

 

[LowdPypes]

times..

I really hesitate saying anything now... you all have made me unsure of this. Guess I'll have to wait for the drag coming up...