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Turbo on 2000 Limited 5.0

Turbo compressor map.gif
Well guys, I don't even have it yet and I'm looking at going turbo.

I think I'll be going STS style with the turbo underneath the the body. I'm hoping I can find room somewhere closer to the front to mount it. If not, I may just go classic style and cut the muffler out and install the turbo in its place.

Tim was kind enough to point me at a turbo for sale locally. I'm checking it out now. I sent the specs to James Henson to see what his thoughts are.

Here's the specs:
t4 F1-68 turbine .68 a/r housing 3" exhaust outlet with a 72mm compressor blade 4inch inlet, 2.5 inch outlet, journal bearing. Also, see compressor map attached. I have a vague understanding, and that concerns me.

Now, the next issue is oil routing.
Oil in to the turbo would be handled from a T off the oil pressure sending unit on the block. Return oil would need a scavenge pump to the top of the oil pan, or in the timing chain cover. The scavenge pump adds quite a bit of cost to the setup. I think saving a few bucks in this area would spell disaster. So, this seems to be the best pump out there:
http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/Exa-Pump/Exa-Pump.html
Stainless steel oil lines will have to be used. As I read about under cab mounted turbo's oil issues seem to be a huge issue. This is going to require careful thought and routing.

My real issue is routing the air filter and compressed air up to the engine bay.
The frame rails will be the the way. I saw one guy notched out his frame for the plumbing and re-enforced the frame by welding metal around the plumbing line (3 inch or 4 inch hole). I'm concerned about running the two pipes and think this will be the biggest challenge. I really don't want that air filter under the truck.
See what this guy did on his ranger?

As for Maf? Pro-M all the way, in a blow thru design.

Fuel pump, injectors, sct go without saying. I'll be having James put together a care package for me along with the Pro-M.
Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump
Bosch uscar (EV6) 60lb injectors part # 108191

I'll recycle my boost gauge and wide band o2 from my supercharged 4.0 ohv.

I'll be using stainless steel for everything under the truck as rust always seems to be an issue.

Also. intercooling. I learned from my last project that cool intake air is incredibly important. People say on under cabin turbo's you don't really need it as the compressed air cools on the way up. Not good enough for me. Im going to go air/water so I have flexibility as to where I mount the intercooler. This could change, but intercooling of some form is a must.

My eye's are watering at what this is going to cost.

I see 02Limited turbo'd his, but he must have had quite a few issues and fell off the forum.

Not much info on guys completing something like this to be found. All input appreciated.

This will be a long process.
 


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vroomzoomboom

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don, if you dont mind used parts, go here http://forums.corral.net/forums/

i bought my injectors, maf, fuel pump from there.
also, the last time i walked into bucks (2 weeks ago) there was a excursion siting there. i just cant remember if it was a auto or manual t case. i will also watch for a f150 at work.
was also going to say, there is 2 banks for exhaust, there for you C O U L D go twin turbo :D. i should keep saying that. i seen to be a bad influance on you lately, lol.
 


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Dono

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NO NO NO.
Im got going twin turbo. Drawing the line right there. sheesh!

I have been watching for injectors there. The green top injectors are all over the for sale area. That's a good thing.

So, even if I were to pick up the rear driveshaft from that excursion Id be well on the way to a 4406, correct? I won't be able to get there till Saturday. I'll call and see if they can tell me anything about it.

I'm sure if its still there, they will hold the Excursion for me. It would be sweet if it had a 4406 manual case also. Then Shopping would be done for the manual xfer case. Turtle did say with the manual case he did experience efficiencies that showed them selves in better gas mileage. In this case, that also translates to more power.
 




delexploder

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Yea kinda figured with all the snow. You gotta admit it sounds cool though. Anyway I agree on the headers and I believe it already has the secondary cats removed? If so i believe you have room to get it closer to the front. Its gonna be tight and your gonna need lots of heat wraps but I think it will be one of the coolest rides on the forum!
 




delexploder

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don, if you dont mind used parts, go here http://forums.corral.net/forums/

i bought my injectors, maf, fuel pump from there.
also, the last time i walked into bucks (2 weeks ago) there was a excursion siting there. i just cant remember if it was a auto or manual t case. i will also watch for a f150 at work.
was also going to say, there is 2 banks for exhaust, there for you C O U L D go twin turbo :D. i should keep saying that. i seen to be a bad influance on you lately, lol.

Bah ha ha ha :D im sorry but you had to know it would come up. Keep on him tim;)
 




QueenCitySleeper

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Not to be negative but I expect gas mileage will be abissmal. Which seems to be something that concerns you. Count on no better than 12 mpg on premium. I'm with JD on the 150 shot. Explore your options thoroughly :)
 




Dono

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Im not sure gas mileage will really be affected if driven nicely.
I was surprised with my 4.0 ohv gas mileage never really became worse than factory. More power, and the same gas mileage. win.win.

I think turbo's are the same scenario. If your not on the gas, its not spooling.
I'm thinking this is why all the newer vehicles come out with small motor and a turbo.

Also, I want to pull this off, as I have done a supercharger. Now its time for a turbo build. Gas mileage is always a consideration on a daily driver, and all that means is being efficient.

I sure hope I'm right on the gas mileage, as 12mpg on the highway would be a bit rough. 12 city with making good use of the turbo? Id say that's really good mileage.

I'll start collecting parts in the next few weeks.
 




FIND

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Gas mileage shouldn't take a hit at cruising speeds... You won't really be making any boost at those low RPMs, especially on a single turbo setup. I mean, as long as you are staying out of boost, you aren't cramming any extra fuel or air in. Therefore, when driving on the highway, don't smash on the go pedal. City mileage on the other hand.. now that's bound to take a hit.
 




2000StreetRod

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turbo & fuel consumption

My complaint about small engines with a turbo to make up the difference is for city driving the concept only works good for small (light weight) vehicles unless the overall gear ratio is low in 1st gear. My Volvo turbo wagon has a fairly low frontal area so it gets decent fuel economy on the highway even though its a fairly heavy vehicle. Since it only has a 4 speed transmission the axle ratio is optimized for cruising - the top speed for the slightly higher performance stock model in 1996 was 147 mph. Consequently, when driving in the city the acceleration is poor compared to compact vehicles unless boost is utilized. Your Explorer will have lower overall gearing to provide adequate acceleration with the stock engine. The turbo will just be an acceleration enhancement for driving pleasure or for unexpected situations similar to your blown OHV V6.
 




2000StreetRod

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turbo & exhaust sizing

I suggest that you spend a lot of time deciding on the turbo characteristics and the exhaust system driving it. My HVAC dealer/serviceman's hobby is vehicle performance tinkering. He's been using a Megasquirt system for years on his turbo engine. He recently changed turbos (larger size) based on what he'd read and now his spool up happens at very high engine speeds. Since you want to improve driving pleasure and not drag strip times you want the turbo to spin up at normal engine speeds. Ask those who have added turbos about their configuration and overall performance. If your boost/performance peaks at 6,000 rpm you'll never see it on your 5.0 L with stock internals.
 




Dono

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I agree on the size of the Turbo being the key to the whole thing.
With the selected turbo I should see boost at 2000-2500rpm (68 A/R turbo).

I thought this might be too soon, but driving the v8 under normal conditions I see it is not. Its pretty rare to have to push past 2500 rpm. Completely different than the 4.0 ohv. This isn't to say I wouldn't be pushing it harder if the grin factor was there, but it isn't a requirement under most conditions.

All the turbo guys say the above turbo is perfect for my application. I really don't think mileage will go right in the toilet. Speaking of mileage in the toilet..Tim?? Being doing any high speed highway driving lately? Man, our bricks sure suck the gas above 75-80mph.
 




vroomzoomboom

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ugh. the trip i did last month, this is what my truck did

98 sport, 5L conversion.
stock gearing (4.10)
stock trains with trans go stage 2 kit
4406 manual case
motor
mustang fox cam (stock grind)
tmh
42 fms injectors
mild ported and gasket matched gtp heads
gasket matched lower intake
lighting 90mm maf
ee xcharger with around a 2 inch pulley
hendson tuned

end result - 50-60 mph 18mpg
61-75 mph 14mpg
76 and above 9mpg!!!!

i however really think you would have to throw mileage out the window, and see what the truck itself gets. before i did the supercharger, the same trip, roads and everything last year i was getting 18-19 mpg

joshuaj0214's is a 98 sport v8 conversion. he still has the awd in it, but has a 2" tt, 3" body lift, runs stock gearing (4.10) and has 33's on it, and told me he was getting a whopping 8mpg! all his drivetrain is stock from what i know

ahodges's truck is a 96 4dr. originally it was a v6 truck that he did a 347 motor set on kill (if you know what i mean) also with a xcharger kit, and a 4406e case, and he was getting 16mpg.

with all that said, i would have to think about what your getting for mpg to start. everyone that has 5L trucks mileage varies lots. some say they get 20-22, others get 14-15 stock.
 




Dono

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On the drive home, the computer varied between 18.6mpg (70mph) to 17.6 (approx 75mph).
I would be actually be getting slightly better gas mileage as the rubber is quite a bit taller than factory, and no computer adjustments have been done. This would mean I was driving faster than the speedometer shows, and getting better gas mileage.
It sounds like the 4406 case is far more efficient, getting rid of the AWD on my limited. This would mean actual control of my 4wd, and to be able to select 2wd. I don't see a down side to this, as the AWD isn't exactly the most capable system, although its easy.
 




dropdtop

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On the drive home, the computer varied between 18.6mpg (70mph) to 17.6 (approx 75mph).
I would be actually be getting slightly better gas mileage as the rubber is quite a bit taller than factory, and no computer adjustments have been done. This would mean I was driving faster than the speedometer shows, and getting better gas mileage.
It sounds like the 4406 case is far more efficient, getting rid of the AWD on my limited. This would mean actual control of my 4wd, and to be able to select 2wd. I don't see a down side to this, as the AWD isn't exactly the most capable system, although its easy.

Just wanted to let you know that I did have the computer recalibrated for the tires that are on it. I used My Ford STAR computer to adjust. so its dead on.

For a smooth ride I would lower tire pressure to 32 and for long trips I would up it to 42 for the MPG,, there is a huge difference between 32 and 42. However I found the AT/2 that are on it dropped my mileage about 2mpg because I had the LTX/2 on it before which is more of a street tire.
 




Dono

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Thanks.
I appreciate you giving me these tips.
I'm amazed the detail you went thru on all mods.
 




Dono

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update: No update.
this project isn't dead, I just don't have any money for this yet.

I'll be picking up the turbo late this week, early next week. From there, I'll be taking it to an exhaust shop to pop the truck up on a hoist to see where we can make the turbo fit.
Id prefer closer to the front, so there would be less tubing required. I will also need enough room for the cold side for the air/water inter-cooler.
This will also be a great time to see what I need to do to get that air filter up under the hood.

James is suggesting 60lb injectors as being a good fit for this project. Once I know where I'm putting the turbo, I can start planning the oil feed lines and oil pump. Im thinking I will either plumb the oil return to the oil fill cap, or the valve cover (Oil fill cap seems by far the least painful).

Here's a link with some helpful info.
http://www.junkyardturbos.com/Rear-...er/product.php?productid=18912&cat=339&page=1
What I learned here is that I need to use check valves. 1 in the oil return line so it doesn't back up in the turbo, and another in the pcv valve tube so I don't pressurize the motor under boost. Interestingly enough, I ordered them from McMaster Carr thinking they would take a while, and I have them already.

There's a fair amount of things to consider here, but assuming I get the oil lines right, and have enough cold side tubing, bends of different types, and transitions so I'm not stuck with my truck in pieces, I really don't think it will be terribly difficult.
 




delexploder

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Im ready to start seeing pics!
 




vroomzoomboom

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Dono

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You know, I was thinking the same thing when I was typing it.
 




Dono

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IMG-20130730-00227.jpg
The meat


Here's the meat.
Im betting the potatoes will cost just as much, if not more.

I'll pick up the blow off valve and waste gate over the next few weeks.
 


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vroomzoomboom

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oooooooooooooh.........ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! :notworthy
 




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