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turdle's mounty moves on

hello all! well, turdle's mounty has come to maryland. i had been tossing around the idea of a really well built suv that didn't cost a fortune. i have a 97 mounty to tow my racecar and it has been a trusty companion for the last 4 years, but the drivetrain, although very reliable, hasn't been very inspiring. so, i had been looking around for options. i settled on the thought of a 347, but the cost was out of my range...until i read about turdle's mounty up for sale. done deal!

now i need to get going on it. work has been crazy for the past month, so i havent been able to get very far and august isn't looking much better, but i am going to try to squeeze in some time.

i thought about fixing up the new mounty and just selling mine, but with all the body work, reassembly of the drivetrain and electrical issues, it would be far less time to swap in the drivetrain. so, i pulled the engine and trans.

let me tell you, that 4406 is a monster! i dont think its going into mine. the shifter location intruded upon my leg space and i like a stock appearance better, so i'm either going to stick with the AWD or swap in a 4405 control trac and use the v-6 radio bezel with the TC control knobs. need to find out if the control trac can hold up to the power of the mighty 347 tho.

i originally thought that the drivetrain was perfect as is, but after looking into it further, the 3k stall torque converter changes the entire ballgame. i found out that a stall converter isnt good for towing and a lumpy cam is no good for a stock stall. so, they both have to go. i picked out a smaller comp cams stick and a hughs towing converter. the trans is good for over 600tq from stock and the art carr shift kit is a great plus, so that will remain as is. again, the 4406 is NOT going into my truck. the next thing i have been considering is a change in the engine lineup. my mustang is built for american iron, except 1 thing. the 408 lump in the engine bay makes waaay too much power. a 347 would be a perfect size. theres more work involved, but a 408 in the mounty would certainly haul my now lighter mustang! yeah, i know. ive been told a hundred times that the 351 will not fit, but im not convinced. with some block huggers instead of the really wild and tangled mess of torque monster headers, it might be easier to get past the steering column and a/c box. i think the box may need to be modified for the valve cover, but it wouldn't be hard to do. good news is i now have lots of spare parts to test with! the oil pan and CPS arent going to be too much of a problem. i could easily modify the pan i have to fit and the CPS doesn't look that hard. i have access to a lathe. its more work, but it solves 2 problems. 1) i want to have a legal american iron car. 2)i love torque and excellent street manners. i can de-cam the **** out of the 408 to idle smooth as glass while never sweating the hills of PA while towing.

if that doesn't work out, so be it, but it would be a cool project! anywho, thats my story. i hope to share the build with you all! thanks to turdle for helping get this thing shipped to me.
 



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I've read the CMP from a 3.8L V6 will drop right into the 351 and only needs an adapter to work. A guy on PBB I was talking to was going to have adapters machined. It might be worth picking up the V6 sensor and seeing what it would take to get it going. Might be easier.
 



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that is definitely worth cheking into. gotta make a run to the j/y this week. i will see if i can pick one up.
 






so, i have all my parts showing up today. when i get home from work, it shoud look like christmas at my front door! i should be able to get the mustang put back together tonight. then onto the real project! so i had a thought about what to do with the original turdle. i came up with this idea as i was showing my 15 year old how to drive in a vacant parking lot over the weekend. yeah, great first car! he can put it back together with my old powertrain and the holes in the dash and patched body panels everywhere wont matter to him. he will think its the best thing ever, he will only have to pay for parts and he will learn how to work on cars. i just need to figure out why the brake lights flicker all the time and drain the battery.
 






Tail lights flicker from the Pats sending a signal. The LED lights don't need a lot of power to trigger them, and they pulse with the signal. At least that is what I remember what Jon had said to me. I had asked why they flicker when I noticed them. Originally thought it was possessed by a Humboldt ghost that resides at the Turdle farm. :)
 






Yup
notice how the flashing changes when you use the key fob to lock the doors.

It started when I installed the led tail lights--idunno.


It shouldn't be draining the battery though. Check the battery connections.
 






now that i think of it, the positive cable end nearly fell off the cable after removing the battery. maybe it was just loose and not connecting right. that would be a relief if there wasnt an actual issue with the electrical system. was it just the taillights that were changed out or was the 3rd brake light changed too?
 






now that i think of it, the positive cable end nearly fell off the cable after removing the battery. maybe it was just loose and not connecting right. that would be a relief if there wasnt an actual issue with the electrical system. was it just the taillights that were changed out or was the 3rd brake light changed too?

the 3rd brake light is LED from the factory.
 






so, my plan of getting the mustang put back together last night was, as usual, destroyed. i spent all night trying to get my new-used headers in. they are 1.75 BBK LT's i bought from someone on corral.net. they were hitting the driver side solid motor mount. this is also a new part. so i marked the mount, pulled it and cut it. back in it goes and now the header clears it, but its now hitting the steering shaft rag joint mount (or where the rag joint used to be). the trans also seems to be too far forward. so, i pull the mount again and compare it to the stock mount i intended to replace. yup, its sitting about .5" off. well, i decided to modify the solid mount. so, i cut and welded them back up. i painted them and reinstalled them. now the clearances are good. that only took 3 hours of my night. so, i crawl under to put in the x-pipe and what do i see? the passenger side collector is twisted and pointing in towards the transmission. its about 2" off of where it needs to be to hook up to the x-pipe. SHIIIIT! there is no sign of damage. it just looks like the header was built incorrectly. i think i got duped:( i now need to find new headers. at least i can use these to hack up to fab my 408 headers...i just paid waaay too much for crap headers. hope the seller will man up and offer a refund or some money back. this sucks. i just want this done so i can start the REAL project.
 






so, after much more effort and time than i anticipated, the mustang is back together. man, that was rough. i was fought on everything! it should have been a simple engine swap back to an engine size that originally was in the car. its nearly complete. i need to get the timing set, get a couple of minutes on the road to check for leaks and burn off grease on the exhaust and get it in for a dyno tune...if the *******s will ever call me back to set up an appointment!

so, in preparation for the 408 into the mounty, i started collecting parts. i have a nice tow worthy cam, an edge converter, a 351 dizzy to cut up, a steel xploder oil pan to cut up, new plugs and gaskets. still need to find a set of 1.75" primary headers to cut up, but it looks like theres plenty of time. between 2 kids, i have soccer, x-country and wrestling, not to mention homework, so the garage time is REALLY limited. stay tuned.
 






Steve, I was in the Raleigh museum if natural science the other day. I thought I would snap a picture for you

IMG_1511.jpg
 






thats too funny! i actually DO have some of those in the living room! i also have one tatooed on my calf!
 






SON OF A......! this thing is seriously pissing me off! i took it for a drive and the clutch wouldn't engage all the way. turns out these f-ing headers are a problem yet again. the fork is being blocked from its full swing by one of the primaries. looks like 1.75" headers are a no go. gotta choke it down to 1.63" because thats all that fits correctly. they should be here tomorrow from summit. on the plus side, i now have my headers to cut up for the mounty project!
 












subscribing.

Hey! i own a cheby!!! the speakers in the back didnt bolt right up!!!:D
 






alright. so the 408 powered mounty project begins today. first step was to identify the path for making the CMP sensor. i have a 351w dizzy, an explorer CMP and a 3.8L mustang CMP for comparison. as you can see, there are some differences.
 

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i have been doing alot of reading up on this. you can't use the stock explorer body because the hole in the 351w block is bigger than the 302, but not enough to "bush" it. the v6 version has a small enough diameter to bush it to fit, but the shaft lacks the extra length at the hex end to have a safe (in my opinion) engagement depth with the oil pump drive shaft. it also has a smaller flag, which i don't know if it will be an issue or not. so, there are 2 choices to make this thing work properly. first, graft the 351w dizzy shaft bottom to the upper part of the explorer shaft and place the new shaft into the v6 body with a special made bushing to adapt it to the 351w hole size. that doesn't really sound like a great idea to me. next is make the damn thing myself. so, thats what i plan to do. my lathe skills suck, so i am going to enlist a friend. i am only going to make the body and the shaft. i will reuse the collar, steel gear and the sensor. this is what its gonna look like...
 






lets try this again...
 

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FYI...i just found out the smaller flag is for the 2 wire sensors used on the later vehicles. not sure on the cutoff. autozone lists the 3-wire on 97, 98 and 99. it lists the 2 wire for 99-01. so i can't say if 99 is a mid-year change or if its late build 98's or a mistake.
 






my friend cant make the parts, so i had them quoted. just the shaft and the body...$700. kinda figured it would cost that much:( i am now looking at 2 other options. v6 CMP body with a machined sleeve with an o-ring groove pressed on to fit in the block hole. the options would be to either get a shaft made up ($250) or cut and splice the explorer cmp top half and the 351w dizzy bottom half together. the easiest thing would be to use the factory collar to provide the joint between the 2 halves. since all the torsional load is only in the bottom half (between the gear and the hex), it only needs to be strong in bending moment so the bearing in the body is effective. press fitting the 2 halves into the collar and pinning them would likely be enough. but opening up a pair of 3/8" holes in the collar at the joint and plug welding all 3 together would be sure fire. just gotta make sure i never need it to come apart again and make sure i don't overheat the parts and risk warping the shaft. if i can get a decent price for the sleeve and shaft, would anyone be interested in buying in with me?
 



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Test fit the 408!

i test fit the 408 into the mounty this weekend. the clearances dont seem too bad. the passenger side valve cover has about 1/2" clearance with the a/c box without the heat shield. those valve covers are bigger than they need to be. if i get some that have a more vertical side face, i will have adequite clearance. theres good clearance for the header on #1,2&3. #4 is going to need a tight bend down from the flange. the driver side is pretty clear except where the steering shaft sits right in the path of #7. it too will need a tight bend down. all in all, clearances look better than i thought they would. the next part of the build may end up changing my clearances though. not sure if it will be for the better or the worse. its the oil pan. i started by cutting the flange off the steel explorer pan. i cut about 3/4" off and ended up with about 1-1/2" gap to the block when i set it on the oil pump. so, basically, i need to add 3/4" depth to the explorer pan to accomodate the extra depth that a standard 351 oil pump has over the standard 302 version. in test fitting the engine, the exposed oil pump sat about 3/16" above the steering rack (measured from the pump bolts). technically, if the pan is snugged up to the pump, the pan would just about touch the rack. engine torque and adding more weight to the compressable engine mounts via the accessories and whatnot, would make the pan rest on the rack. but, i don't believe i will need to raise the engine by the same 3/4" that the pan got lowered by. i can close up the factory gaps. i think i can get away with 3/8" spacers on the motor mount brackets. we will see though. i will get some pics on here in a few.
 






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