turdle's mounty moves on | Page 3 | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

  • Register Today It's free!

turdle's mounty moves on

hello all! well, turdle's mounty has come to maryland. i had been tossing around the idea of a really well built suv that didn't cost a fortune. i have a 97 mounty to tow my racecar and it has been a trusty companion for the last 4 years, but the drivetrain, although very reliable, hasn't been very inspiring. so, i had been looking around for options. i settled on the thought of a 347, but the cost was out of my range...until i read about turdle's mounty up for sale. done deal!

now i need to get going on it. work has been crazy for the past month, so i havent been able to get very far and august isn't looking much better, but i am going to try to squeeze in some time.

i thought about fixing up the new mounty and just selling mine, but with all the body work, reassembly of the drivetrain and electrical issues, it would be far less time to swap in the drivetrain. so, i pulled the engine and trans.

let me tell you, that 4406 is a monster! i dont think its going into mine. the shifter location intruded upon my leg space and i like a stock appearance better, so i'm either going to stick with the AWD or swap in a 4405 control trac and use the v-6 radio bezel with the TC control knobs. need to find out if the control trac can hold up to the power of the mighty 347 tho.

i originally thought that the drivetrain was perfect as is, but after looking into it further, the 3k stall torque converter changes the entire ballgame. i found out that a stall converter isnt good for towing and a lumpy cam is no good for a stock stall. so, they both have to go. i picked out a smaller comp cams stick and a hughs towing converter. the trans is good for over 600tq from stock and the art carr shift kit is a great plus, so that will remain as is. again, the 4406 is NOT going into my truck. the next thing i have been considering is a change in the engine lineup. my mustang is built for american iron, except 1 thing. the 408 lump in the engine bay makes waaay too much power. a 347 would be a perfect size. theres more work involved, but a 408 in the mounty would certainly haul my now lighter mustang! yeah, i know. ive been told a hundred times that the 351 will not fit, but im not convinced. with some block huggers instead of the really wild and tangled mess of torque monster headers, it might be easier to get past the steering column and a/c box. i think the box may need to be modified for the valve cover, but it wouldn't be hard to do. good news is i now have lots of spare parts to test with! the oil pan and CPS arent going to be too much of a problem. i could easily modify the pan i have to fit and the CPS doesn't look that hard. i have access to a lathe. its more work, but it solves 2 problems. 1) i want to have a legal american iron car. 2)i love torque and excellent street manners. i can de-cam the **** out of the 408 to idle smooth as glass while never sweating the hills of PA while towing.

if that doesn't work out, so be it, but it would be a cool project! anywho, thats my story. i hope to share the build with you all! thanks to turdle for helping get this thing shipped to me.
 



Join the Elite Explorers for $20 each year.
Elite Explorer members see no advertisements, no banner ads, no double underlined links,.
Add an avatar, upload photo attachments, and more!
.





clearances...
 

Attachments

  • pass vc clear.JPG
    pass vc clear.JPG
    61.4 KB · Views: 791
  • pass vc clear w hs.JPG
    pass vc clear w hs.JPG
    43.4 KB · Views: 790
  • ds header clr1.JPG
    ds header clr1.JPG
    43.6 KB · Views: 793
  • ds header clr2.JPG
    ds header clr2.JPG
    58.8 KB · Views: 787



Join the Elite Explorers for $20 each year.
Elite Explorer members see no advertisements, no banner ads, no double underlined links,.
Add an avatar, upload photo attachments, and more!
.





oil pan fab...
 

Attachments

  • oil pan1.JPG
    oil pan1.JPG
    66.8 KB · Views: 778
  • oil pan2.JPG
    oil pan2.JPG
    65.3 KB · Views: 779






crankshaft balancer?

Apparently the 408 from your Mustang is a stroked 351 windsor and you're installing it in your 97 Mounty. The photo in the previous post shows a crankshaft balancer with a trigger wheel for ignition timing. However, I was under the impression that even the later fuel injected 351W engines came stock with a distributor and a 28 oz external harmonic balancer. My question is where did you obtain a 28 oz harmonic balancer with a trigger wheel?
 






Apparently the 408 from your Mustang is a stroked 351 windsor and you're installing it in your 97 Mounty. The photo in the previous post shows a crankshaft balancer with a trigger wheel for ignition timing. However, I was under the impression that even the later fuel injected 351W engines came stock with a distributor and a 32 oz external harmonic balancer. My question is where did you obtain a 32 oz harmonic balancer with a trigger wheel?

Better question, what is the balance of the 347, and the 408(28oz, 50oz, or zero)? You should keep the balancers matched to the assembly that they were balanced with. Good luck.
 






the 28oz trigger wheel balancer came off of turdles 347. my 408 is balanced for 28oz, but was not balanced with a particular balancer. so, as long as its 28oz, it will work. i don't believe turdle even knows where it came from. from my recollection in searches, his engine builder just came up with it.
 






This might help your cause...

i have been doing alot of reading up on this. you can't use the stock explorer body because the hole in the 351w block is bigger than the 302, but not enough to "bush" it. the v6 version has a small enough diameter to bush it to fit, but the shaft lacks the extra length at the hex end to have a safe (in my opinion) engagement depth with the oil pump drive shaft. it also has a smaller flag, which i don't know if it will be an issue or not. so, there are 2 choices to make this thing work properly. first, graft the 351w dizzy shaft bottom to the upper part of the explorer shaft and place the new shaft into the v6 body with a special made bushing to adapt it to the 351w hole size. that doesn't really sound like a great idea to me. next is make the damn thing myself. so, thats what i plan to do. my lathe skills suck, so i am going to enlist a friend. i am only going to make the body and the shaft. i will reuse the collar, steel gear and the sensor. this is what its gonna look like...

When I was building both Windsor and Cleveland strokers, I found the EFI Ford 460 distributor fit like a champ and worked for the EEC-IV system I was running...The 460 body is longer and has a better fit for the hex drive on the oil pump...
 






When I was building both Windsor and Cleveland strokers, I found the EFI Ford 460 distributor fit like a champ and worked for the EEC-IV system I was running...The 460 body is longer and has a better fit for the hex drive on the oil pump...

but thats a distributor, right? i don't know of any 460 with a cam position sensor?
 






i was trolling the internet and came across this. has anyone seen this before? if so, would it work with the stock ford electronics? it would certainly make life alot easier with this project if it could work.
 

Attachments

  • AEM CMP1.JPG
    AEM CMP1.JPG
    20.2 KB · Views: 734






i was trolling the internet and came across this. has anyone seen this before? if so, would it work with the stock ford electronics? it would certainly make life alot easier with this project if it could work.

Sweet!

Surely there is a way to make that work.

That is a good find. I am bookmarking that one.
 






i don't know. their website says its a 4 wire hookup. 12v+, ground, cam signal, crank signal. i have been trying to reach someone at AEM for technical help. no answers. i also posted on corral.net for insight. a few guys there are running them, but i think they use the AEM ECU.
 






well, i got ahold of AEM. good news is that it will wire up by just using the power, ground and cam signal. it is a single pulse cam signal just like the stock CMP....however, it uses a hall effect sensor, whereas my CMP uses a magnetic trigger. i am not real certain what the differences are, but i do know they arent compatable. DAMN! so close!
 






Hall effect sensor is a cyclical magnetic field sensor - aka "magnetic trigger".
 






sooo, that IS the same? hmmm. any idea what the reference voltage is going to the ford CMP?
 






I remember that AEM part being advertised when a Corral member was trying to put something together. It wasn't available at the time, and both he and a friend with a Ranger fabricated theirs from the V6 and V8 sensors. They thought it might work also, after they spoke with AEM. The 302 Explorer had two kinds, the 99+ being the 2 wire type that isn't the same at all as the AEM part. You may be able to use that for the 96-98 PCM system.
 






so, i got the pan cut and tacked together over the weekend. the new pan is about 3/4" taller than the stocker. i put the pan on the engine without the gasket, so i expect 1/8" less clearance once the gasket is in. i put the engine back in the truck and set it on the mounts as is. the pan clears very well around the front diff. i cant tell if its going to hit the steering rack or not. it all depends on the drivetrain angle. once the pan is welded up, prepped and painted, i can get the pickup modified and button it up on the engine. then, i will marry up the trans and get it in the truck and see what spacers will be needed on the motor mounts. then, its time for headers.
by the way, the CMP is going to be frankensteined together. my friend is making a collar to use the v6 body and i will graft together a shaft. i may try out the AEM part after everything is working, but this is the safe bet.
 






oil pan

here is the difference between the stock pan and the new one
 

Attachments

  • 408 oil pan08.JPG
    408 oil pan08.JPG
    60.2 KB · Views: 611






another view
 

Attachments

  • 408 oil pan07.JPG
    408 oil pan07.JPG
    60.2 KB · Views: 639






distributor gear?

. . . by the way, the CMP is going to be frankensteined together. my friend is making a collar to use the v6 body and i will graft together a shaft. i may try out the AEM part after everything is working, but this is the safe bet.

Will you end up with a steel distributor gear? I believe I read somewhere that there are cast iron and bronze gears on some distributors. A roller cam with a steel cam gear will result in metal shavings circulating in the oil system if you don't have a steel distributor gear. I don't know if that applies in your configuration.
 






Will you end up with a steel distributor gear? I believe I read somewhere that there are cast iron and bronze gears on some distributors. A roller cam with a steel cam gear will result in metal shavings circulating in the oil system if you don't have a steel distributor gear. I don't know if that applies in your configuration.

the v6 CMP uses a cast gear. the explorer version uses a steel gear that works with roller cams. i think that billet cams need the bronze gear? i didn't get a billet cam. i will be using the explorer gear.
 



Join the Elite Explorers for $20 each year.
Elite Explorer members see no advertisements, no banner ads, no double underlined links,.
Add an avatar, upload photo attachments, and more!
.





i finished up the pan and the pickup tube over the weekend. i didn't get as much time as i wanted so thats as far as i got. it looks good! the pickup needed some more surgery than i anticipated. the flange that mounts to the oil pump needed to be turned to bolt up. the bracket needed to be shortened and the center of the tube needed to be shortened. 3 cuts and welds. but, it wasn't bad. boy do i love my TIG welder! next is to give the trans a bath and get it bolted up to the engine and tossed into the truck for header fab. gonna be a while though. next weekend, i will be in WI for the Packers/Vikings game. its going to be epic!
 






Back
Top