Turn signal / flasher relay

[Marvial]

My 2000 Limited started to act up a year ago or so, but the problem "went away". After reading up on the issues, I thought I would sort this out once and for all. But, no cigar...

Problem:

Turn signal AND 4-way flasher works OK. Every once in a while, the flasher relay starts to click in a random fashion. However, exterior lights or dashboard indicators are dark.

When the clicking starts, it quiets down if i brake. Sometimes it goes away. Sometimes it is there. This led me to suspect grounding issues....

On my Ex there is no "yellow relay" under the dash. Rather, 1 ft above floor, bolted to the steel frame inside the protective metal cover, there is a black Volta Flasher. It has five pins, and two wires OUT OF THE TOP, a blu / brown. The socket is 5-pin. Several threads mention SIX-pin.

The blu/brown wire seem to go to an indicator light next to the cluster dimmer switch, that flashes if I press the hazard button (as well as all 4 corners)

Rocking the indicator lever, sometimes I can cause the clicking to start. I took of the covers, removed multifunction lever, sprayed all connectors, it seems OK.

There is a cable harness to the left of the steering wheel with the two connectors for the
mulifunction lever. Rocking this harness does not seem to cause anything.

On the right side, there is a yellow tube harness. At first, when I pushed or pulled this harness, I could trigger the clicking.

I disassembled connectors above pedals, sprayed, reinserted a couple of times. Problem seemed to reduce, but was not gone. The other end goes to

1) ignition lock, small green connector. I could not disconnect, but I could rock it up or down by 1 mm or so, so I thought any oxide should have been displaced.

2) a couple of wires going into the steering wheel, I removed horn / airbag, but not steering wheel. These wires seem to go to cruise control buttons.

I listened my way to find the flasher relay. I cut the blue / brown wires, removed the relay, opened it up. It has i IC a couple of random components and two relays. I soldered all joints, especially those with the capacitors. I sprayed the board and cleaned with toothbrush, a very small sign of oxide.

All assembled again (except blu-bn wires). Everything works, but I still have random relay clicking.

I measured the 5-pin plug. Black wire is ground, 0.3 ohm to chassis, maybe 0.1or so from instrument leads. Out of the 5 pins, 3 have +12 V, two are ground (one the black)

Shifting the turn lever NOTHING happens, still 12 V on same 3 pins, 0 V on two. Putting the relay back all works, (but random clicking is not gone). I am out of ideas, I don't have any reasonable diagram, I don't have a yellow relay under the dash, but a black thing with wires out 12 " above my feet.

I am pretty sure it IS A 2000 EX Limited though....(could it be a VAZ in disguise?) Help!!!!

Edit: the blu/brown wires is probably an addon by the previous owner, since most original harness wires are 2-color, these are blue/brown which are standard
colors for "household cord" in Sweden.

*Wild Guess*: The indicator in the emergency flasher died. Rather than removing the lever and changing the bulb someone
mounted a small green pilot light on the dash next to the cluster dimmer, soldered wires in the relay, drilled two holes in the case and put the stuff back. It seems a very elaborate thing to do, but maybe you can confirm that *your* explore does NOT have a small green indicator next to the dimmer.

:exp:

 

[Marvial]

Annoying clicks...

Well, I am getting a little bit wiser,

I think I have found a diagram, and if that is "actual" then the circuits are just as simple as they used to in the old days. The thing that bothers me now, is I am sure I had 12 V on 3 out of five pins. I should have had 12 on two pins, i.e. ignition and "always hot". Now I also have some tentative wire colors and fuse numbers, so I will just have to take the thing apart again.........
Also, then the relay should be a fairly standard one.....

And, according to the diagram there IS NO bulb in the emergency button, so why soldering wires into a flasher relay?? (jerk!)

Marvial

Edit:

Since I now have seen some diagrams, I think I have figured the thing out. The Flasher is either activated through a circuit from the emergency button, from "always hot" +12, or via turn signal lever and a +12 when in run. Since the problem has never occured when ignition is off, it is likely the switched circuit. The flasher is electronic, and starts its action if you draw current from the reminal that goes to the indicator lever, through the bulbs to ground. So, if I there is a "creep" current from that terminal to ground, the flasher will activate. So, we are down to one circuit. IF the problem occurs, and I touch the brake pedal, the clicking stops. So, is there a lead associated with the brake light circuit that shares a connector block with the wires between flasher and indicator lever?

Analysing this circuit, and following the wires should confirm this suspicion, watch this space .......

Marvial

 

[Marvial]

Well, problem gone for now......

I have just come back from a 800 mile trip, and this is what happened....

As I started the trip, I could hear the clicking every now and then. After travelling some 100 miles, the noise stopped, and I did not hear it again for the trip up. I did some diving locally, no strange sounds. As I started my return trip in a cold morning, just above freezing point, I heard the clicks again a few times. Having returned home, the problem is totaly gone.

Theory: Moisture creates a "ground current" somewhere between relay and turn lever, or possibly between relay and emergency button. This weak current causes the relay to "think" turn lever / em button is activated. Once relay closes even briefely, voltage on the wire goes back to 12, and relay disengages. This repeats, and since there is no load (or just a leakage current) the time the relay is on is extremely brief. Since no bulbs are connected, nothing bad happens. These brief activations are still audible, so I can hear the clicks.

The reason it changed during the trip was drying out, moisture plays in somewhere...
It is gone now, so the trip dried out the car, it IS spring and wet outside....

But where does it leak?


Marvial....

:exp:

 

[koda2000]

have you checked your grounds for connection and corrosion?

 

[Marvial]

I believe so.....

have you checked your grounds for connection and corrosion?

The harness on the right side of the steeringwheel is grounded on the back of a small bracket
fastened with fairly small screws with locktite on them. I pked around, measured to frame, and could not see anything bad....

As for the relay, it also seemed Ok, I was actually looking for just that thing, but it is an awkward place and you have to be a gymnast to see properly......

I think the next step is to remove the turn lever, I already did, but this time disassemble it,
to see if there is anything strange inside......like dirt or metal filings between the relay lead and the left or right side indicators......

I *think* the lever has shown *some* sensitivity to the problem, but no clear case, i.e. on / off, and rather in the flash headlights / high /low action....i.e. pulling/pushing

Marvial

 

[koda2000]

have you checked the body to frame grounds too? have you tried moving the steering column (tilt) up/down to see it makes any difference? sometimes wires can get pulled and break.

 

[Aux819]

Did anybody find a solution to the problem? I have the same issue