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Ugh... 92 Explorer Hell..

Bobmbx

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Also.... the purge canister solenoid valve's wire harness is missing the clip that holds it into place securely.

I doubt this is a problem, but I know there is a hose that connects the canister to underneath the throttle body. Is there in any way some sort of function that could be crappy on this purge canister in any way, vacuum or electrical, that would cause stalling?

Furthermore... can you give me a list of sensors available to unplug? TPS, IAC, MAF, x..?

Lastly, is the stem on the bottom of the throttle body that connects to the purge canister a vacuum stem too? I could try plugging that as well?

**edit**

Oh, and one more thing....

Let's say through cleaning the IAC or throttle body.. could I have caused any permanent damage to anything somehow that you can think of? In other words, by spraying throttle body cleaner direclty into the intake manifold holes that are behind the IAC valve when you remove it?

**edit edit**

the first time I removed the IAC to clean it, there was some sort of oily substance (probably oil) behind it.. so I would imagine the intake manifold contains some of this as well?

I haven't read this entire thread yet, but have you replaced the IAC?

No, there's nothing to damage by squirting cleaner into the passages.
 



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natenkiki2004

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I'm not making this an edit so I know that you read it Yebba. Follow me on this one. I'm not an expert, I'm just trying to make sense of this and I have a theory I'd like you to check.

You said:
I got :

37: System Indicates Rich At Idle

58: Idle Tracking Switch (ITS) signal problem ISC

Vane Air Temperature (VAT) sensor out of range or open - VAT

212: Ignition TACH signal was erratic (module/wiring) or SPOUT circuit fault - Ignition Systems

543: Fuel Pump Circuit Open–Battery To Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
C/O

157: Mass Air Flows Sensor Circuit Below Minimum Voltage


I looked in my EVTM at the engine controls wiring diagram to see what I can find:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/464376/vehicles/1991 Explorer/EVTM/2015-07-23 14.26.14.jpg

That horizontal part in the middle, that's C202. It's a connector that goes to the computer. Most everything goes through that.

More importantly though, your 543 code brought me there. Because it's the connector that has wire 238 in it, that comes from the fuel pump relay so the computer knows that the fuel pump is on. 543 means that 238 wire is broken, the computer doesn't know if the pump is running or not.

The tach and MAF also run into that connector, it also runs wires up to the EEC-IV self-test connector in the engine compartment.

It lives at D9 in this diagram, on the passenger side floor near the door hinges:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/464376/vehicles/1991 Explorer/EVTM/2015-07-23 14.23.05.jpg

You may not have a problem with that connector but if I were you, I'd be looking around that area. Maybe it's worn through or someone kicked it or...


I may be totally wrong but even if I am, this is the kind of diagnostic approach you need to take with situations like this. All of this info was in my EVTM book. Search eBay for "1992 explorer evtm" and you'll see piles of them for under $15. Very much worth it.
 






MistahYebba

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Yes, I have tried 2 replacement IAC valves Bobmbx, neither of which yielded different results. I am back to using the stock one again.

I appreciate the research Nate :)

Does the fact that I cleared the codes and the KOEO ones that you listed haven't come back yet matter? I was hoping since they haven't come back that it would be unrelated.

As for progress..

I was doing some more physical troubleshooting today.

The engine was hot from driving home from work.. and like I stated earlier, the IAC doesn't mind being plugged in while it's hot..

Well, with it plugged in (and everything else plugged in correctly that I know of), it was surging in RPMs..

Disconnecting the TPS actually made it idle smoothly, but very high RPMs (I would estimate 1500 or so.. it sounded loud.)

However, revving the engine by hand with the TPS unplugged made it stall right away. I noticed that if I SLOWLY rev it by hand, I can slowly rev it from the idle RPM all the way up as high as I want... but if I quickly rev it by hand, it'll stall right away.

Plugging the TPS back in fixes this, but then of course we're left with that surging engine. And I'm assuming I wouldn't even get so far as a surging engine with everything connected if the engine was cold.

Another thing I noticed is the AC compressor... you know how it clicks to lock/unlock the thing that rotates on the front that the belt is around?

Well... I noticed I think with the TPS unplugged that it was clicking and unclicking way too often. And every time it would click off I would notice a big change in idle.

**edit**

as for the limp mode, I thought the code associated with the reason it's in limp mode is the one that comes after the 998? Maybe I'm wrong about that though. That's why I assumed it's only in limp mode cause the code 57.
 






natenkiki2004

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I just remembered, I had the code 57 for a while too. It stumped me because the PNP sensor/switch tested fine. Come to find out, 57 for KOER is actually to indicate you don't have an octane adjust/shorting bar installed. It's hard to find but if you search enough, it's there. KOEO 57 is for the PNP switch.

The octane bar is located in the same area as the EEC-IV test port. There's a 2-wire connector that is supposed to have a grey square plugged into the end. Many people remove this to "solve" pinging issues when in reality it just masks the problem and lowers engine performance & fuel economy. If you find yours is missing, I have a few spares (damn hard to find & expensive on eBay for some reason).

As for the 998, the computer isn't smart enough to tell you why it entered limp mode, just that it did. Those other codes might be intermittent from a broken connector, the one I mentioned. Or from damage to the wiring in that area. Does it look like someone's kicked that area or someone's been in there?
 






Bobmbx

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Ok, I just read through the thread; lets rule out vacuum, fuel, and the IAC/MAF.

It does appear to be electrical. Here's an old post of mine that solved a host of issues for me: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=415084

I had so many unexplained issues that would just fix themselves and then come back, or make absolutely no sense when you consider the engine as a whole.
 






MistahYebba

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Ok, I just read through the thread; lets rule out vacuum, fuel, and the IAC/MAF.

It does appear to be electrical. Here's an old post of mine that solved a host of issues for me: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=415084

I had so many unexplained issues that would just fix themselves and then come back, or make absolutely no sense when you consider the engine as a whole.

Interesting post Bob. Did you have to buy all new harnesses and solder them together?

[MENTION=1907]Natenkiki[/MENTION], do you think maybe my octane bar is unplugged? Would this give any issues at all? Most likely not.. I'll see if I can find it later.
 






natenkiki2004

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[MENTION=1907]Natenkiki[/MENTION], do you think maybe my octane bar is unplugged? Would this give any issues at all? Most likely not.. I'll see if I can find it later.

Yes & yes. Like I said, it retards timing to prevent ping. This also lowers MPG and engine performance. Not near enough to cause the issues you have but I mentioned it because, at least for now, you can ignore the code 57. Unless you actually DO have a shorting bar installed, then you definitely have a wiring issue in/near that harness I mentioned.
 






MistahYebba

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Yes & yes. Like I said, it retards timing to prevent ping. This also lowers MPG and engine performance. Not near enough to cause the issues you have but I mentioned it because, at least for now, you can ignore the code 57. Unless you actually DO have a shorting bar installed, then you definitely have a wiring issue in/near that harness I mentioned.

Think I may have just found some pretty valuable information.. stand by so I can post this video. :)
 






MistahYebba

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(p.s. Natenkiki, the panel near the door hinges doesn't look tampered or kicked.)

As you can see in this video, I managed to get it started with the IAC and everything plugged in. As you can also see... it REALLY REALLY REALLY wants to stall..

When I rev it nice and strong like I did, the RPM sticks (as mentioned in the video) and falls down slowly. This might be normal.. Tell me what you think about the surging RPMs.





THIS VIDEO IS THE REAL GOODY BAG!


This was only happening if I revved it good and strong a few times... When I go to turn it off... clunk clunk clunk... it's desperately trying to turn itself back on again! WTF??

When I turned the key forward it actually started back up there at the end!

So what is this all about?!?




**edit**

Oh yeah, dangit. I forgot.. when I was looking around the EEC tester for the octane bar thing.. I found this metal thing with a clip on 1 end and what looks like a soldered ball on the other end... It looks like a thick metal shoelace. What is this and why is it just sitting there? I pulled it out. It wasn't connected to anything.

I can take pictures if need be, I just forgot it outside.
 






natenkiki2004

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Take pictures of the item you're talking about. I need to leave for a bit but I'll have more to say when I get back.
 






Bobmbx

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Interesting post Bob. Did you have to buy all new harnesses and solder them together?

[MENTION=1907]Natenkiki[/MENTION], do you think maybe my octane bar is unplugged? Would this give any issues at all? Most likely not.. I'll see if I can find it later.

No, I just wove electrical tape between the wires to separate them, then taped all around the bundle to keep the water/humidity out as much as possible.
 






Bobmbx

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THIS VIDEO IS THE REAL GOODY BAG!


This was only happening if I revved it good and strong a few times... When I go to turn it off... clunk clunk clunk... it's desperately trying to turn itself back on again! WTF??

When I turned the key forward it actually started back up there at the end!

So what is this all about?!?


That last video is a bit freaky. I've seen cars diesel before, but not with fuel injection. The only way that can happen is the computer has lost its mind. Once you turn off the ignition, the injectors and the ignition lose power and thats all she wrote. For the engine to diesel, it needs a spark and fuel.

Your engine is possessed. It won't run when you want it to, and runs when it isn't supposed to be running.

:popcorn:
 






MistahYebba

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That last video is a bit freaky. I've seen cars diesel before, but not with fuel injection. The only way that can happen is the computer has lost its mind. Once you turn off the ignition, the injectors and the ignition lose power and thats all she wrote. For the engine to diesel, it needs a spark and fuel.

Your engine is possessed. It won't run when you want it to, and runs when it isn't supposed to be running.

:popcorn:


Hmm. Gotta love mystery's Bob..

Any idea what this is? This is that shoelace looking thing I was talking about. http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3442849#post3442849
 






natenkiki2004

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Yep, as the other thread says, that's a ground strap. I'd be extremely cautious about that fixing the issues. My money says it won't make a damn difference. The computer, battery and other electronics are either grounded to the body of carry their own grounds.

Bobmbx, electrical tape would be a temporary fix. I'd cut those connectors out and go buy new ones then solder & heatshrink the new ones in. Even with electrical tape, you're begging for corrosion to get in there (it probably already has).
 






natenkiki2004

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MistahYebba

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For what it's worth, here's the cluster of connectors & cables at the EEC-IV port. The rectangular flat-top 2-wire grey plug is the Octane Adjust/Short Bar, missing it will cause your code 57.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/464376/vehicles/1991 Explorer/Pictures/2015-07-23 18.03.43.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/464376/vehicles/1991 Explorer/Pictures/2015-07-23 18.03.52.jpg

I for sure have that rectangular grey flat top cord in there. Any ideas?

You said I should look for a short in that area if that's the case?
 






natenkiki2004

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Yep, if you've got that 2-pin flat-top plug in there then you've got a short somewhere. I'm betting it will be in that area. Passenger firewall, floor/kick area of the cabin, wiring to the power distribution box/relays.
 






MistahYebba

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Yep, if you've got that 2-pin flat-top plug in there then you've got a short somewhere. I'm betting it will be in that area. Passenger firewall, floor/kick area of the cabin, wiring to the power distribution box/relays.

How come when I pull off the cover to my power distribution box, the computer makes a sound/clicks and stuff?

Same as when I put it back on?
 






natenkiki2004

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Why haven't you mentioned this before? Or did you but it got buried? That could be your whole problem. Unhook the negative battery cable and pull out the power distribution box. Underneath there are relays. I meant to tell you earlier to swap the fuel pump & computer relays to see if it helps but now you have even more reason to dig in there. Take some pictures and tell us what you find.
 



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MistahYebba

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Why haven't you mentioned this before? Or did you but it got buried? That could be your whole problem. Unhook the negative battery cable and pull out the power distribution box. Underneath there are relays. I meant to tell you earlier to swap the fuel pump & computer relays to see if it helps but now you have even more reason to dig in there. Take some pictures and tell us what you find.

I found this out putting the ground strap on.

Is there not supposed to be a sound when you pull the lid off to see the fuses underneath? Ya know, where it says "push the tab to open" ya know??
 






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