Under Dash Relay Clicking - Various Electrical Issues

[Rickter Spatz]

Hi All- I have a 1998 Explorer Eddie Bauer, low miles, left turn signal started acting up and I can hear a rapid clicking sound under the dash. Been driving it a while like that but now more gremlins are appearing: blower motor won't respond to controls and blows even when climate controls are turned off, right side head light and fog lamp are dim, other little things.

My owners manual seems to ignore the under dash relays which I've located and am pretty sure the culprit is one of them and would like to replace but which one? From Big Country's post here there are these:

1. accessory relay (big relay)
2. (top left) interior lamp relay
3. (top middle) head lamp relay
4. (top right) battery saver relay
5. (bottom left) one touch down relay
6 (bottom middle) parking lamp relay
7. (bottom right) dimmer relay

but none address my first issue - the left turn signal. Maybe #5 , one touch down relay? - that might address the blower issues. Steering 'wheel' blower controls stopped working as well. I have a multi meter but unsure how to use it to check the relays if it can be used for that.

Prior to this everything worked as it should.

Appreciate any ideas! Thanks

 

[bobflood]

Turn signal issues are often related to the MFS (multi-function switch) on the steering column that controls turn sgnals, headlight hi-lo and flash, wipers. Are you sure all of your turn signal bulbs are good - a bad bulb can cause rapid blinking on one side. MFS could also be related to your dim headlight issue.

The one-touch relay has to do with lowering the driver's window - no relation to the blower controls at all. If you have steering wheel blower controls and those don't work, I would expect that to be related to your blower issue.

Here is a great source for wiring diagrams that might help you troubleshoot:
Auto - Online Repair Info
http://search.ebscohost.com/
Login ID: rrcc
Login PW: rebsco
Select: Auto Repair Reference Center
Fill in: Find Your Vehicle
Follow prompts down to Wiring Diagrams.

Good luck.

 

[Rickter Spatz]

Thanks for the post!

I did take the MFS out - just to see if maybe there was a loose connection. Didn't find anything like that so put it back in.

There is an audible clicking sound from the relays under the dash when I use the left turn signal and when I use the interior lights / dash lights dimmer wheel - using both illicits clicking from the under dash relays.

One of those relays was warm to the touch. I did see an article on how to test them so I'll try that and try replacing one or more and then I guess try a new MFS.

Thanks again!

 

[Rickter Spatz]

Update

I've replaced many of the under dash relays. No help. Replaced multifunction switch -no help although I was able to get rapid blinking from the right turn signal (previously the issue was left turn signal NOT blinking at all when activated).

I still have some odd electrical issues:

1) The heater fan speed wheel control does not respond. When I turn the heater off, it blows harder! (the display does go dark)

2) Heater issues are somehow related to headlights. With ignition turned on and heater off, if I turn on the headlights I hear an audible groan and the heater will start to blow. The right headlight (and fog light) will glow dim but the left side is bright.

As such I've pulled the drivers side fuse for the heater.

3) Activating the high beams makes the dim right headlight go dark completely.

4) Manipulating the interior lights / dash dimmer switch causes a clicking sound under the dash and audible sounds form the stereo speakers (even tho the stereo is not turned on).

5) There is a barely audible tone from the stereo speakers when the headlights are turned on (engine off, stereo off).

All blinkers are bright, all four corners. Good clean battery contacts, newer battery.

Should I replace the dimmer / headlight switch?
Should I replace left-side headlight that has been consistently dim?
Should I pull the plug and make an appointment at the dealer?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

-matt

 

[koda2000]

my guess is that you have a bad relay somewhere. the relay is stuck in the ON position. this is causing power to back-feed through your electrical system. try pulling your relays (one at a time) and see if the back-feed stops, if/when it does, replace that relay. unfortunately, there are a lot of relays in your truck to test and not all of them are easy to get to. start with the ones in the power distribution box. there are more under the dash and more near the RAP module in the jack compartment.

 

[koda2000]

my guess is that you have a relay that is stuck in the ON position when it should be OFF. this is causing power to back-feed through your electrical system. try pulling the relays out (one at a time) and see if/when the back-feed stops.

 

[Rickter Spatz]

Update #2

Thank you for the great idea. Sadly I was unsuccessful. I don't want to say I've "isolated" anything but here is what I did:

1) For all relays I could locate (underdash, in rear jack compartment, in engine compartment driver's side and in engine compartment behind right headlight) - pulled each relay one at a time and after doing so each time turned the ignition key on. Each time I turned on parking lights no problem. Each time I turned on headlights (with fog lamps on) audible groan from engine compartment (AC maybe??) and heater blower motor starts blowing on high even though heater is turned off. Left headlight and fog light bright, right side both dim.

2) With ignition still on, turning off headlights: blower motor continues (and cannot be shut off) and fog lights remain on very dim.

3) Disconnected right side headlight (the dim one) and tried proceedure again, still get the audible groan and heater blower starts. Tried same for right side fog lamp, same results.

This was a great and logical idea from Koda2000 and I had high hopes for it, but alas the issue continues. At least I have some shade tree diagnostics I can pass along to the dealer if/when I take it in.

Thanks again!

 

[koda2000]

do you have the automatic (EATC) or manual HVAC controls? if you have the automatic controls, try unplugging the blower control module and see if that makes any difference. i don't know if it will help, but it's easy enough to do.

 

[Rickter Spatz]

Update #3 - Myriad of Electrical Issues

1) Took stereo / hvac controls ‘center stack’ out and disconnected HVAC. Disconnected everything for various tests. This stops the blower from coming on when the lights are turned on but doesn’t remedy the dim right headlight, fog lamp, and rapid clicking when using right turn signal.

2) Right turn signal blinks rapidly anytime the headlights are on, or the HVAC is on.

3) Pulled right side corner lamps and checked bulbs, front and rear, seem fine. Front is dim, rear seems normal.

4) While working around engine compartment noticed a hum or buzz. This buzz (very slight and hard to hear) was present anytime the ignition was on. Tracked this down to electrical connection going into tranny, drivers side, blue plastic plug kind of at a right angle. Unplugged this – stopped buzz but no help with dim right side front lights or HVAC kicking on on its own.

5) Unplugged transfer case connection – no help with lights issue. Did verify 4x4 low and hi are working.

6) Did some reading on line – is it possible I have a bad GEM causing the right side, sort of “high draw” or “high current issues” – parking lights and blinkers work fine – until headlights (with or without fog lamps) are turned on?

SOME BACK GROUND – probably unrelated: We have had a really cold winter in Iowa. Parked vehicle at airport for almost two weeks (otherwise it is garaged). Good battery but tough to start when returned to 0F airport parking. At that time, while warming up the truck, plugged in small inverter to passenger side cig lighter to charge laptop and its fuse blew. Blew another fuse days later attempting same thing and have not trouble shot the cig lighter – suppose it should be unplugged at least.

I believe it was after this that left turn signal started acting up – wouldn’t blink but if I tugged on it it would. Could be unrelated. As stated above replaced MFS and checked all relays and blinks now work fine – unless lights are on then right side blinks rapidly. The hvac taking off on its own when lights turned on started during the troubleshooting of blinker I believe.

Truck only has 100K on it and could be described as lightly used. Everything else has always worked and as Eddie Bauer has all kinds of options and electrical. Drives fine – just issue with dim right side lights, rapid blinking right turn signal (only if lights / hvac on) and hvac with a mind of its own.

Was throwing “large evap leak” code for the past year or more. I would reset and it would be fine for months. Did have my local shop try to hunt it down – they did smoke test. Said it was fixed. Threw code once more. Cleared it. That was 2-4 months ago now. Assuming unrelated.

Ready to ask Ford Dealer for some assist with diagnosing.

Thanks again.

 

[delexploder]

Have you looked at the blinker relay? Its under the column behind the plastic and the steel panels, they are usually yellow, square, and can cause what you are describing, mine on my 98 xlt was close to melting it was so hot,

 

[koda2000]

if you haven't tried unplugging/replacing the flasher/blinker relay you might as well try it. i thought about the GEM (General Electrical Module) too. it does all kind of things. i don't see where anything else you describe would have any effect on your issue. as far as your cig lighter, it or whatever you plugged into it caused a short, but that would just blow a fuse. the lighter socket has a 12V hot (in the center) and a ground at the side. nothing tricky about it as long as the two don't touch.

 

[Rickter Spatz]

Yellow Blinker relay - Will Do

Yes, after checking all the other fuses and relays I finally did figure out that the super easily accessible yellow box was the blinker relay. Will swap it out!

Thanks!

 

[Rickter Spatz]

May Be Narrowed Down

Okay -

May have my problem narrowed down a bit. I suspect the blower motor and my question is: does the blower motor have a relay in it?

I ask because with the blower motor relay pulled from the under hood power distribution box (#9) and the ignition ON the following occurs:

1) blower doesn't run (naturally)
2) activating the temporary high beams (pulling back on MFS / wiper control) an audible click can be heard from the blower motor area in the engine compartment.
3) releasing the same MFS / wiper control, produces another similar "click".
4) turning the head lights on and off elicits the same two clicks, when turned on and when turned off, click is heard from the blower motor area.

Couple other oddball things still happening - like after 30-45 seconds with ignition on the center console throws a "low washer fluid level" message even though it's full. This is in the same area as blower. Couldn't find any damage to wiring harness in this area.

I assume any 'high current draw' on this harness or circuit or whatever is causing the problem with headlights, right front blinkers, fog lamps all being dim on that corner, and the blower motor lacking speed control and going from low to high when turned off.

Is there something I can check inside the blower motor?

I did have the glove compartment apart and pulled the relay to the upper left in there - no change. Not where the sound is coming from anyway. Definitely right corner of engine compartment closest to passenger.

Thanks!

Matt

 

[koda2000]

the blower motor is just a motor. no relay inside it. there are several relays related to and beneath (i believe) the area of the washer fluid tank. had you pulled those during your trouble shooting?

 

[Rickter Spatz]

Between Glove Box and Blower / Heater Core

Hi-

Yes I did have those relays out but pulled and checked again. Didn't find any physically under the washer fluid/radiator overflow.

The clicking sound certainly sounds to be coming from a place behind the blower motor and heater core but ahead of the glove box. Not a continuous clicking, just one click / thunk several seconds after releasing the high temp high beam flash / activator - like something tripping and then resetting I imagine.

Meaning when inside the vehicle with glove box open and laid down the sound is coming from engine compartment. When activating the temp high beams I have enough time to run around the front of the truck and listen real close - no sound from the are of the relays behind right head light and below washer fluid. Again, I swear its coming from between blower / heater core and passenger compartment.

I even took apart what must be the anti-theft system. Looked like an over sized hard drive when I pulled it out. Clicking happens with that puppy out. Played a little chime or song when I popped it back in.

What is my strategy at the dealer:

1) ask for dignosis first with some cost limitation?
2) ask for repair with some cost limitation?
3) let them know what I've done or figure it out for themselves?

I usually try to avoid the dealer but in this case I'm hoping they've seen enough Explorers they should've seen it all.

Thanks

 

[koda2000]

i had asked you if you had the automatic or manual HVAC controls in reply #8 . i don't see where you answered this question. if you have the auto controls, i suggested you unplug the blower control module. did you try that?

 

[Rickter Spatz]

Automatic HVAC Controls

I thought I answered that but sorry if I didn't - getting to be a longer thread.

Yes I have the controls that are automatic I think. I hit the blue or red buttons to chose a temp, like 72F, or I use steering wheel controls and it does the rest.

What I did this morning was warm it up with blower relay plugged in (under hood power distribution box #9 ), heat on, and fan blowing - it gave me about half speed. It was causing the dim lights in this state and dim right front turn signal.

After it was warm I turned off the truck, yanked out blower motor relay, and re-fired. In this condition the heater control still says 90 for temp but I get no blower which is fine since it's warmed up. This way I DO get proper turn signals and right corner brightness (IF I don't turn on the head lights).

I have disconnected the blower motor itself and this keeps it from blowing FULL when turning off the heat, and a couple other issues but still have the dim right corner lighting. I'm going to give the dealer a shot when I get time.

Certainly I'll post the outcome.

Thanks!

 

[koda2000]

I thought I answered that but sorry if I didn't - getting to be a longer thread.

Yes I have the controls that are automatic I think. I hit the blue or red buttons to chose a temp, like 72F, or I use steering wheel controls and it does the rest.

What I did this morning was warm it up with blower relay plugged in (under hood power distribution box #9 ), heat on, and fan blowing - it gave me about half speed. It was causing the dim lights in this state and dim right front turn signal.

After it was warm I turned off the truck, yanked out blower motor relay, and re-fired. In this condition the heater control still says 90 for temp but I get no blower which is fine since it's warmed up. This way I DO get proper turn signals and right corner brightness (IF I don't turn on the head lights).

I have disconnected the blower motor itself and this keeps it from blowing FULL when turning off the heat, and a couple other issues but still have the dim right corner lighting. I'm going to give the dealer a shot when I get time.

Certainly I'll post the outcome.

Thanks!

i was suggesting unplugging the blower module, not the motor itself. it's located at approx 5 o'clock in relationship to the blower motor. don't know if it would make any difference, but easy to try.

 

[bobflood]

You mentioned that you have the steering wheel mounted controls for the HVAC system, right? Given that turn signal, headlight and HVAC controls all reside in the area, I would be looking for a problem with wires/connectors in the steering column. Does anything change if you move the tilt on the steering wheel up/down. There can be a lot of mechanical movement in that area over time (steering, tilt, shifting, turn stalk, etc) so stuff can easily pull/catch/fray. Good luck.

 

[Rickter Spatz]

Update 3/31/14

Hello-

I've had the steering wheel shroud off since starting this and spent some time upside down tonight - slid the drivers seat all the way back and reclined it with my feet up there - this works pretty well if you don't get vertigo.

Carefully examined wiring underneath and within the steering column. Couldn't identify anything out of place, no broke or cracked wires, nothing loose, couldn't find anything binding, pulling, or tight.

One thing I did notice: At the HVAC blower motor there are two plugs and I did unplug the lower one (as suggested) - interesting thing: of course the blower doesn't work in this state, and I still get the jacked up headlights and right front corner blinker issue but the steering wheel temp controls DO work with this unplugged (relay removed from #9 described above back in place for this test / occurrence). Temp controls not working otherwise although everything worked a couple months ago. Maybe this is evidence it's not steering column related? Steering radio controls work and I assume cruze control but haven't tried it.

One other thing: this morning when I turned the key on, the head lights came on - the headlight switch was NOT on. First time I've seen this. Turned off key and repeated - same thing - headlights on. This was with #9 relay pulled out so the blower isn't doing it's funny business. Drove to work and less than a minute from the door the lights went out and everything seemed normal after that.

Throughout this troubleshooting I have replaced MFS and head light switch and some relays (although never found any bad ones). Replaced cig lighter fuse and those work normally now.

Anyway, trying to make an appt. and will update if the dealer looks at it.

Thanks!