Unnecessary Repairs mandated by Ford

[lgExplorer11]

At the end of April, I took our 2011 Ford Explorer XLT 150,000 miles to Lonnie Cobb Ford, Henderson, TN, because the engine was overheating and I needed the Works Package ($41) done. The water pump and timing chain had been replaced in August 2018. I explained that I had another shop replace the thermostat and that here was no air bubble in the system, as I had looked up online and found a video made by a Ford mechanic on how to eliminate one if there was one, but the engine was still overheating. I received a phone call later that day from the service center and was told that the cooling fans and the cooling fan module were bad and had to be replaced. I told the man at the service center that the fans were checked by myself and a mechanic, and they were working. The man at the service center said that, yes they worked but they would not speed up when the engine got hot. He said they had checked the engine codes and they said to check cooling system, which meant the fans. He told me they idled the engine for an hour and a half, and it did not overheat, so the problem had to be the cooling fans and cooling fan module were the problem. The cost would be a little over $900 with the Works Package included. I am a disabled veteran, my wife is also disabled and I have a set income. We desperately need the vehicle to make our doctor appointments, so I called the service center business office to see if I could set up a payment arrangement. After that was done, I gave permission to make the repairs.

After getting the Explorer back, the first trip over 20 miles resulted in the engine once again overheating. I drove it back to Lonnie Cobb Ford, stopping a few times to let the engine cool down, and let them know it was still overheating. I called the next day and they had no figured out why it was overheating and that they had escalated the problem to Ford. I called the next day and was told that Ford had said the problem was either the water pump or a clogged radiator. I once again told the service technician the water pump was replaced in August 2018. Later that day, I received a phone call that the Explorer was ready to be picked up. I asked what was wrong and was told that it was a clogged radiator. So I called another Ford service center, Golden Circle Ford, Jackson, TN, explained the situation and was told the price of a radiator flush is $159.99.

I wrote a letter to Lonnie Cobb Ford disputing what I had been charged and waited a few days for an answer, because the manager's wife was in the hospital. I finally received a call from the service center and was told that they had worked on the Explorer for two and a half days after I brought the Explorer back. I was told the first thing they did was to vacuum fill the coolant system (unnecessary because there was no air bubble) and that was not what I was originally told before replacement of the cooling fans and cooling fan module. He then said they replaced the new thermostat that had been installed by a friend of mine who is a mechanic, but that also did not work so they escalated the problem to Ford. He said that he knew I was disabled, but there was nothing that they could do because replacement of the cooling fans and cooling fan module was the mandated repair by Ford for the check cooling system code. He let me know that none of the work they did after the Explorer was returned to them was charged for. So I have been billed for a very expensive unnecessary repair that is mandated by Ford instead of the simple radiator flush that was needed.

I would like to know who I can contact at Ford to ascertain if the unnecessary repair is indeed mandated by Ford (and why), or if Lonnie Cobb Ford service center is trying to avoid having to absorb the cost of making an unnecessary repair.

 

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum.
I don't know who you would contact but I believe the Owner's Manual has contact numbers listed in it. That might be the place to start. As for mandated repairs, I don't know why those would not begin with the least expensive repairs as the first course of action. Good luck and please keep us updated. Thank you.

Peter

 

[lgExplorer11]

Peter,

Thank you for your response.

I just called the Ford Customer Service at 10:00am and spoke to Zeus. I explained the issue to find out if replacement of cooling fans and cooling fan module is mandated as a repair by Ford and was informed that the Dealership’s Service Center is responsible for the reading the engine diagnostic codes and what repairs are needed. He also said that since the 2011 Ford Explorer is out of warranty, there was nothing he could do to assist in the billing by the Service Center.

 

[blwnsmoke]

With 150,000 miles on your Explorer, nothing is mandated by Ford. There is no warranty so anything Ford is telling your dealer (if the dealer even reached out to Ford) is pure "try A, if not A, try B, if not B, try C. Not everything is clear cut and a simple fix.

What throws a red flag out to me is the Fans AND control module both going bad at the same time? Unless they are one unit, I am not sure why they would replace both and not try 1 or the other.

This is simply a misdiagnosis by the dealership in which I think they are trying to blame Ford.

Are there codes listed on your paperwork? Not sure I even believe this "check coolant code" that you typed. I have no idea what that is unless it is more of an overheat condition code.

Keep in mind Ford dealers are independent and being this was not a warranty repair, your issue unfortunately is with the dealership. Ford customer service typically refers one to dealerships as all they are is call center employees.

 

[peterk9]

.........What throws a red flag out to me is the Fans AND control module both going bad at the same time? Unless they are one unit, I am not sure why they would replace both and not try 1 or the other....................

Good point. Not being familiar with the system I would guess that the control module and the fan assembly are two separate items since the module would have to have a way of monitoring the coolant temperature in order to direct the fans to run at a higher speed. Just a guess.

Peter

 

[cwescapexlt4x4]

That's really too bad you had this happen and hope the dealership can help make it right. There's always social media (Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Yelp, Google reviews) to help leverage your position to get their help.

 

[Michael Lopour]

If it's a non-warranty repair fully covered by you, they should not have done any work without getting your go ahead first (unless you waived that right).

 

[Odrapnew]

At the end of April, I took our 2011 Ford Explorer XLT 150,000 miles to Lonnie Cobb Ford, Henderson, TN, because the engine was overheating and I needed the Works Package ($41) done. The water pump and timing chain had been replaced in August 2018. I explained that I had another shop replace the thermostat and that here was no air bubble in the system, as I had looked up online and found a video made by a Ford mechanic on how to eliminate one if there was one, but the engine was still overheating. I received a phone call later that day from the service center and was told that the cooling fans and the cooling fan module were bad and had to be replaced. I told the man at the service center that the fans were checked by myself and a mechanic, and they were working. The man at the service center said that, yes they worked but they would not speed up when the engine got hot. He said they had checked the engine codes and they said to check cooling system, which meant the fans. He told me they idled the engine for an hour and a half, and it did not overheat, so the problem had to be the cooling fans and cooling fan module were the problem. The cost would be a little over $900 with the Works Package included. I am a disabled veteran, my wife is also disabled and I have a set income. We desperately need the vehicle to make our doctor appointments, so I called the service center business office to see if I could set up a payment arrangement. After that was done, I gave permission to make the repairs.

After getting the Explorer back, the first trip over 20 miles resulted in the engine once again overheating. I drove it back to Lonnie Cobb Ford, stopping a few times to let the engine cool down, and let them know it was still overheating. I called the next day and they had no figured out why it was overheating and that they had escalated the problem to Ford. I called the next day and was told that Ford had said the problem was either the water pump or a clogged radiator. I once again told the service technician the water pump was replaced in August 2018. Later that day, I received a phone call that the Explorer was ready to be picked up. I asked what was wrong and was told that it was a clogged radiator. So I called another Ford service center, Golden Circle Ford, Jackson, TN, explained the situation and was told the price of a radiator flush is $159.99.

I wrote a letter to Lonnie Cobb Ford disputing what I had been charged and waited a few days for an answer, because the manager's wife was in the hospital. I finally received a call from the service center and was told that they had worked on the Explorer for two and a half days after I brought the Explorer back. I was told the first thing they did was to vacuum fill the coolant system (unnecessary because there was no air bubble) and that was not what I was originally told before replacement of the cooling fans and cooling fan module. He then said they replaced the new thermostat that had been installed by a friend of mine who is a mechanic, but that also did not work so they escalated the problem to Ford. He said that he knew I was disabled, but there was nothing that they could do because replacement of the cooling fans and cooling fan module was the mandated repair by Ford for the check cooling system code. He let me know that none of the work they did after the Explorer was returned to them was charged for. So I have been billed for a very expensive unnecessary repair that is mandated by Ford instead of the simple radiator flush that was needed.

I would like to know who I can contact at Ford to ascertain if the unnecessary repair is indeed mandated by Ford (and why), or if Lonnie Cobb Ford service center is trying to avoid having to absorb the cost of making an unnecessary repair.

Something doesn't add up here.
Under what circumstances did the vehicle overheat for you?

If they idled the engine for an hour and a half with the old "bad fans/module" and it didn't overheat, sounds like the fans were working (unless it was a cool day).
What was the temperature when they let it idle that long?
Fans are typically needed under low air flow conditions (idle, slow speeds) or when the AC is on so if they idled it for that long I would expect the fans to either work correctly or the vehicle to overheat.

 

[blwnsmoke]

Something doesn't add up here.
Under what circumstances did the vehicle overheat for you?

If they idled the engine for an hour and a half with the old "bad fans/module" and it didn't overheat, sounds like the fans were working (unless it was a cool day).
What was the temperature when they let it idle that long?
Fans are typically needed under low air flow conditions (idle, slow speeds) or when the AC is on so if they idled it for that long I would expect the fans to either work correctly or the vehicle to overheat.

Great point. I remember when the 11s had the cooling fan failures (tab for updated version) where they were causing Explorers to overheat and squealing on shutdown. Mine would overheat when mine was failing if I idled.. as soon as I started drivin . The temps would come down.

Hnmmm..

 

[peterk9]

If it's a non-warranty repair fully covered by you, they should not have done any work without getting your go ahead first (unless you waived that right).

Permission to go ahead with the work was given Mike.
" We desperately need the vehicle to make our doctor appointments, so I called the service center business office to see if I could set up a payment arrangement. After that was done, I gave permission to make the repairs."

Peter

 

[Michael Lopour]

Permission to go ahead with the work was given Mike.
" We desperately need the vehicle to make our doctor appointments, so I called the service center business office to see if I could set up a payment arrangement. After that was done, I gave permission to make the repairs."

Peter

If this is true I’m just not sure what recourse the owner has at this point.

 

[blwnsmoke]

If this is true I’m just not sure what recourse the owner has at this point.

I'm not a lawyer nor do I like giving any type of legal advice BUT I would say that if I had to pay for repair that did not fix the problem and was deemed something completely unrelated, that I would not be responsible for the parts thrown at the vehicle. I can understand additional labor to figure it out but certainly not the cost of the parts nor the full labor involved in swapping parts that did not fix the problem.

 

[Michael Lopour]

I'm not a lawyer nor do I like giving any type of legal advice BUT I would say that if I had to pay for repair that did not fix the problem and was deemed something completely unrelated, that I would not be responsible for the parts thrown at the vehicle. I can understand additional labor to figure it out but certainly not the cost of the parts nor the full labor involved in swapping parts that did not fix the problem.

Well, if I were the dealer I would say if you knew after we replaced the part that it couldn't have fixed the problem, you could have nixed the repair before as well. However we had your permission to go forward.

You might not be responsible but allowing them to proceed with any and all work makes your case a lot harder. Also not a lawyer.

 

[peterk9]

If this is true I’m just not sure what recourse the owner has at this point.

I think it is between the customer and manager of the dealership to see if they can come to some sort of agreement on costs.

Peter

 

[blwnsmoke]

Well, if I were the dealer I would say if you knew after we replaced the part that it couldn't have fixed the problem, you could have nixed the repair before as well. However we had your permission to go forward.

You might not be responsible but allowing them to proceed with any and all work makes your case a lot harder. Also not a lawyer.

I pay you for a service and my expectations are you know what is wrong and how to fix it. I'm willing to bet the dealer didnt tell him they were guessing this was it or was unsure if this would fix it.

He is paying for a repair, not someone to guess and throw parts at it.