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Using Forscan to change Battery_Type

stuarto

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Hi Folks,
I've been pulling my hair out this weekend and thought I would post here to appeal to smarter minds.

So, I'm trying to update the Battery_Type using Forscan. The reason I want to do this is that it is in accurate since I changed the battery. It's set to 80Ah/700CCA currently.
I have researched this well (I think) on this forum, and F150 forum and a Fusion forum. The stumbling block I have is the in Forscan, I see:

726-04-01 0000 0032. Note that there is not a third set of 4 digits. All of the other reference points seem to show this as being present.
Regardless, I am unable to figure out what to change that effects a change to the battery type. I either get an error or a write attempt is successful with no change to the battery.

One example stated "Changed 726-04-01 1202 001E 095C to 0102 001E 095C" however, note the 095C - the third block...

I'm wondering if anyone here has successfully edited?
Or, would you be willing to post your values to 726-04-01 as well as the text displayed in the battery type field?

Thanks

S
 
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peterk9

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I don't recall anyone doing this. Would the Battery Management System not adapt to the new battery? I know several members have increased their battery size and never brought up this issue. There are a couple of members well versed in Forscan. Perhaps one of them will jump in. Good luck.

Peter
 
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PlatinumOwner

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This isn't required on a 2013 as in your profile(2011-2015 don't have this type of BMS), but the 2016-2019 do have specific battery settings and require a BMS Reset when changing the battery.

Please see the tab "Battery Settings" on my spreadsheet if you do have a 2016-2019


Here is the reset procedure for your 2013:

2011-2015 Battery Relearn Procedure

Because your vehicle’s engine is electronically controlled by a computer, some control conditions are maintained by power from the battery. When the battery is disconnected or a new battery is installed, the engine must relearn its idle and fuel trim strategy for optimum driveability and performance. To begin this process:

1. With the vehicle at a complete stop, set the parking brake.
2. Put the gearshift lever in P (Park), turn off all accessories and start the engine.
3. Run the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature.
4. Allow the engine to idle for at least one minute.
5. Turn the A/C on and allow the engine to idle for at least one minute.
6. Drive the vehicle to complete the relearning process.
 
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stuarto

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Thanks but no, it's not to do with the BMS reset. The battery type specifies the Ah and CCA of the installed battery.

From the Forscan forum:
Figured out how to tell the cars computer / battery monitoring system you have a different type/size battery... for example I had a regular battery and changed to a 70Ah AGM battery. So I changed my value below from 12 to 01.
Example: Changed 726-04-01 1202 001E 095C to 0102 001E 095C

Memory Address
726-04-01 - First Box = Battery Type
(on older vehicles, this 726-04-01 block contained the code for the drivers door keypad lock, but not anymore)

First byte is battery type.
Second byte appears to enable/disable battery monitoring system... 01 Off, 02 On - All Battery Monitoring System PID's go blank when this is changed to 01. So I am assuming it turns it off.

Some example options that work in the Fusion, I am sure there are probably more choices:
- Confirmed by reading/monitoring BdyCM battery PID's, in a table in FORScan, after making each individual change.

These CCA numbers are rounded/rough approximates... go by the Ah.
0102 - AGM 70Ah 600CCA H6 Case - Default (with Start/Stop Engine)
0202 - AGM 80Ah 700CCA H7 Case
0002 - AGM 80Ah 700CCA T7 Case
1202 - Regular/Varta 60Ah 600CCA H5 Case - Default (SE/Titanium with Push to Start)
1502 - Regular/Varta 90Ah 800CCA H8 Case
1002 - Regular/Varta 80Ah 700CCA T7 Case
1102 - Regular/Varta 90Ah 800CCA T8 Case

^ the 02 is the BMS enabled (I believe, 01 for disabled)
 
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peterk9

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I may be a little out of my league here but I would guess a battery relearn would take into account any new/different battery that is installed.

Peter
 
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PlatinumOwner

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Thanks but no, it's not to do with the BMS reset. The battery type specifies the Ah and CCA of the installed battery.

From the Forscan forum:
Figured out how to tell the cars computer / battery monitoring system you have a different type/size battery... for example I had a regular battery and changed to a 70Ah AGM battery. So I changed my value below from 12 to 01.
Example: Changed 726-04-01 1202 001E 095C to 0102 001E 095C

Memory Address
726-04-01 - First Box = Battery Type
(on older vehicles, this 726-04-01 block contained the code for the drivers door keypad lock, but not anymore)

First byte is battery type.
Second byte appears to enable/disable battery monitoring system... 01 Off, 02 On - All Battery Monitoring System PID's go blank when this is changed to 01. So I am assuming it turns it off.

Some example options that work in the Fusion, I am sure there are probably more choices:
- Confirmed by reading/monitoring BdyCM battery PID's, in a table in FORScan, after making each individual change.

These CCA numbers are rounded/rough approximates... go by the Ah.
0102 - AGM 70Ah 600CCA H6 Case - Default (with Start/Stop Engine)
0202 - AGM 80Ah 700CCA H7 Case
0002 - AGM 80Ah 700CCA T7 Case
1202 - Regular/Varta 60Ah 600CCA H5 Case - Default (SE/Titanium with Push to Start)
1502 - Regular/Varta 90Ah 800CCA H8 Case
1002 - Regular/Varta 80Ah 700CCA T7 Case
1102 - Regular/Varta 90Ah 800CCA T8 Case

^ the 02 is the BMS enabled (I believe, 01 for disabled)


If you have a 2013, there are no settings for battery size or type. It has a different BMS.
 
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thefranchise713

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I'd be more worried about this if you went to an AGM vs the change in capacity. Even then...

FWIW, I dumped a more massive battery in my 2014 Taurus... no ill effects from the swap--just a BMS reset and I was good to go.

I'm not sure that the setting you're trying to change existed before 2016+ in the Explorer.
 
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stuarto

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When you say there are no settings, do you mean you cannot change it or do you mean it doesn't have the setting for battery type.

If the latter, I would have to disagree given that Forscan displays the battery type...Or are you suggesting this is simply a hard coded value?
 
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PlatinumOwner

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If there is a specific setting somewhere on the BCM for 2013 models, I don't think anyone has found it yet.
 
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stuarto

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I'm one of them that hasn't found it! I'll join the line ;)

When I have more time, I'll look into this more and make some changes to the BCM to see if I can effect a change to the battery type value. If I learn anything, I'll post it here
 
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peterk9

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It seems to me that doing the simple Battery Relearn procedure as mentioned by PlatinumOwner will accomplish exactly what you want.
 
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stuarto

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I've done it already, at least 5 times.
I understand how the relearn would reset the state of the battery however I can't link that to how it would be able to interpret the Ah and CCA capacity
 
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peterk9

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I've done it already, at least 5 times.........
Oh, okay, that wasn't mentioned before. In that case it will be interesting if you can find what you're looking for. Good luck.

Peter
 
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stuarto

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Apologies, I should have included that in the opening spiel.

I'm finding this frustrating and interesting at the same time. I can do a BMS reset with Forscan that takes my state of charge up to 82%. Thereafter, it simply deteriorates over about 10 days to 37% and stays there +/-2%. The battery is actually fully charged, 1 yr old and recently tested just in case.
Maybe it's just anomalies because I have an "old" Explorer!
 
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thefranchise713

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So even though you're driving it every day, after ten days the SoC is down to 37 pct??

Even if the BCM weren't using the right algorithm this is far off. Are you positive you don't have a parasitic draw problem?

Keep in mind that 82 percent is pretty meaningless right after the reset. It's an inferred percentage that only really has any meaning over time.
 
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stuarto

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So, I can't say I am *positive* but here's the thing. At an alleged, 37% I have no issues starting the car. When I attach my fancy charger, it charges for approx 10mins and then shuts off telling me that battery is at 100%

FWIW, I believed the car a few weeks back. Took the battery back to store (3 yr warranty) and told them that my car tells me it's crap. They put their fancy tester on it and it came back with "battery is good. approx 46mths life left".

Lastly, I did a practical test. Sit comfortably, you are about to laugh. So, I have a 3kw pure sine wave inverter in the car (I have my reasons!) so I figured I'll plug in the missus hair dryer and see what happened. Low power, which should have been about 600W. It was still running after 7 mins which is when I turned it off. Sound like a crap battery to you? Me neither :)
 
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thefranchise713

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If you have a scan tool, monitor the BCM for the PIDs showing current charge/draw. I'm thinking something is up with the hall effect sensor. I refuse to believe that the algorithm is that far off.

Also, are you positive that the hall sensor was properly reinstalled when the battery was swapped?
 
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stuarto

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Thanks for the suggestion :)

So, what I haven't done yet is put my current clamp on the -ve cable and compare this reading with that on the battery current pid. This would be easy enough to do - perhaps over the weekend.
What I do see though, just after starting is the battery current will be around +20A and rapidly decrease to 3-5A. After a "while" (I havent timed this), this drops to zero which, ordinarily, would mean that the battery is now fully re-charged after starting the motor.

I will need to take a look at the forscan docs, but if it's possible to disable the bms on a '13, I will do that and compare some measurement results.
 
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thefranchise713

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Having watched that PID, that's precisely right. Expect a delta of a 20A burst before leveling out almost even.

If you need a known good sample let me know--shouldn't be too bad to get some sample data and chart it out against amp draw/gain, voltage, and time since start, with ambient temp and inferred temp for good measure.
 
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stuarto

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Hi all,
Thought I would update with an image of what I see in forscan. You'll notice that the battery current is 0 Amps and so I am going to assume that the battery is fully charged. Also note that the charge state is a whopping 41% :(

I do still need to put my current clamp on and confirm that the PID reading is accurate.

This aside though, it is still an issue for me that the Battery_Type is set to an 80Ah AGM battery as this must affect the way the battery charge state is calculated. I have a 110Ah Lead Acid

idzPPb


IMG_1955.jpg
 
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