V8 towing dissappointment :(

[wpurple]

Well it was so nice out today I decided to tow the camper (about 3300# empty)around to see how well it does with my V8 Mountaineer (I have been towing it with my 97 Sport 4L OHV 5 speed thus far)
Well, the mounty really dissappointed me, on a moderate grade I did maintain 65 with it floored, but my Explorer had better cruising throttle response.
I have never towed with an automatic before, all my trucks have been 6 cyl manuals.Monitoring the tranny temp, it never went above 165 degrees, even during the hill climb.
Am I setting my expetations too high? It is only 1L more with the losses of an automatic and a heavier truck maybe that is about par?

Comments?


Thanks
Kurt
99 Mountaineer 5L
97 Sport 4L

 

[X24]

That's most likely the difference between auto and manual. Did you make use of the O/D button at all? Try turning O/D off and see how that helps. That will help keep it in the power band.

 

[wpurple]

Going up the hill I turned OD off, but going down and straight I turned it on, then off when I realized I couldn't maintain speed with OD on.

 

[treywylie]

check the manual to see what it says about towing with OD on. I know the SOHC manual specifically states to leave OD off, but that may be a 4.0 thing and not applicable to the 5.0 engine/tranny combo. Supposedly, towing with OD on is hard on the torque converter.

-tw

 

[jimmyroyse]

I personaly leave the O/D off when I tow. My trailer is 3500# and it jumps in and out too often. Also; check this thread it help mine a huge amount. http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56433

 

[wpurple]

...I just would have thought the V8 would had enough torque to tow in OD on a flat ground.

A long trip this weekend with the camper to see how she really stands up.

Thanks!

 

[bluevolume]

On most any vehicle you are going to want to turn the OD off when you are doing any kind of towing. The OD is there to help eek out a couple extra MPGs at highway crusing speed, taking advantage of the fact that you're pretty much maintianing a constant speed and aren't working the engine very hard. When that OD kicks in you are losing the mechanical advantage you gain from the torque converter, and its significant enough that it can make towing very difficult.

Blue

 

[BadBrad]

I have been towing a racecar on an open trailer with my '98 V8 Explorer for 6 years now, and it has done a good job. I figure I am towing about 4500 lbs., and it even does fine in the hills. On a flat highway I leave the Overdrive on, and it cruises effortlessly at 70-75 mph. If the road has hills I turn the OD off to minimize the tranny gear hunting.

Perhaps you were going into the wind and the wind resistance from the camper was dragging you down?

BB

 

[wpurple]

No headwind....
Friends of ours towed a 5000# camper using OD on flat highways and had no problem (with a 96 Explorer), it could be that my 5L is a bit tired...although it only has 65K on it. I just picked it up in January but it runs great, changed the plugs in March and they looked really good. Whoever had the truck before me went to the dealer to have all the maintenance done or used Motocraft parts, as even the Air Filter was Motocraft.

 

[bluevolume]

I've been thinking more about this, and it is after midnight here so bear with me. I was thinking about things like inertia, and drag coefficients, and acceleration, and wondering if a properly designed vehicle should even be able to tow a large load while in top gear with the OD locked.

Everyone is concerned about mileage today, and even though our SUVs and trucks are pretty bad on gas, it still matters to us that we get 18MPG instead of 14MPG. So when we reach our highway crusing speeds, in OD, we wouldn't want our engine to be working any harder than it needs to, and it makes sense that the OD kicks off when we try to accelerate. Given this, doesn't it sound like we're wasting fuel 99% of the time if we can tie on a ton+ load with bad aerodynamic characteristics, and still maintain speed in the same gear?

This is more theoretical, and doesn't really relate to the question of why certain Explorers seem to be better tower's than others. But I guess in some ways it could -- if as Fords engines, transmissions, and programming in both progress, they have found ways to limit this waste of power/fuel.

Any thoughts?
Blue

 

[jimmyroyse]

A few more thoughts I had...
is your freinds 96 compareable to yours? modded? gearing? trailers compareable too?
the differance between an open 3500# race car trailer and even between campers is the front surface area of the trailer - the 8'sq. wall 6 feet behind you makes a big differance. I can hold 60mph pretty much through out Mi. here I can do 65 without too much effort anything over that and it's working pretty hard; again trying to overcome the aerodynamics of the wall.
Every explorer/ mountaineer should come off the assy line pretty much equal, in truth they can vary quite abit. tolerances vary, people have bad days etc.. SO even though the they are they same they may not be equal. and I belive the mountaineers are heavier too.

 

[wpurple]

the thing about it is that their camper is 1500# heavier, and a wee bit less aerodynamic. Ours is considered a lightweight and the front has as much slope as they possible could add to it.
Your right, tolerances could play a part We are heading out tomorrow for a camping trip, I will see how it goes.
I might do a compression check too, maybe the engine is a bit more tired.

Thanks for your help.

 

[jimmyroyse]

check the link above on the throttle as well, I found on mine that the throttle was only opening about 75% of the way with the peddle on the floor.

 

[banbro]

Is anyone else having a problem following the throttle cable mod link? I am not able to go there and am wondering if it is the site or if I need to do some more work on my firewall.

Thanks....

Brock

 

[X24]

Not sure if this has anything to do with it, but what if your load isnt as balanced? If you have more tounge weight than your friends camper, won't that be harder on your explorer? Is your car trailer a tandem axle?

 

[jimmyroyse]

Sorry the link still works for me. ??
The throttle cable mod I found in the "list of useful threads" section. Basicly it's saying; pull the hose off the throttle body and check to see if the butterfly valve opens completely when sombody on the inside mash's the gas pedel (ignition off). If it opens all the way great, if not add zip tie's between the cable end and the pedel until it does.

The loading of the trailer will affect his handeling but not the power/ performance issue he is experiancing.

 

[wpurple]

Towing Update

Well, on the way to the campground which was 125 miles one way, I was able to keep on OD most of the way. The transmission ran cooler in OD (165 compared to 185 to 190 with OD off) In stop and go traffic the tranny fluid ran about 180 to 190 (I imagine because the TC wasn't locked)
No wind, 85 degrees out, A/C off about 4200# total weight.
On the way home today I couldn't sustain OD very much, no wind, 50 degrees out. There were a few hills I was right to the floor mainatining 55. (kicked down to 2nd) didn't have the PC setup to monitor tranny temp on the way home.

Overall it did OK, but I certainly would give my 97 Sport OHV 5 speed the edge as I never had to have it matted to the floor to climb any hill including this one today (same camper) plus the Sport pulled about 10 to 13 mpg towing.

Mountaineer, guussing about 9 to 10.

...maybe the 5L is tired? still going to do a compression check though.

 

[jimmyroyse]

I'm wondering if maybe you are running 3:55's ?? For compareison my camper weighs in around 4000# and on mostly flat ground i'm running around 2800rpms at 60 mph with 3:73 gears w/o OD. and thats with the air on and four people. I know the 4L with the 5 speed is a good combo but the mounty should be doing the job as good or better, I'm out of ideas now

 

[wpurple]

It defiantly has 3.73's, I tach the same not in OD. (door tag D4)

I think I set my expectations a bit too high, the Mountaineer is a great truck that hauls good but it is NOT a E350 towing machine...
My Explorer had just the right gearing to haul very good for what it is, and because of the gearing of the 5 speed stick did even better.

The Mountaineer makes a better tow vehicle for me as it is bigger, has a better ride, more toys, even though the hauling isn't that much better than my Sport if it even is....
I really miss shifting but I probable will appreciate the automatic on longer trips when I get stuck in traffic.