What is so great about these Toyotas?

[alexk]

My mother has been out of the country for the last few weeks and will be for another couple so while my Explorer is in the body shop she told me to just use her camry instead of renting something.

Ive been using this car for over a week and would love to know what people find so amazing about toyotas? This camry is a 2006, my mother has owned it for 4 years and put 43K miles on it. The car rattles @ 40mph, the gas mileage is a stellar 19mpg, the brand new brakes shudder, after a cold start when you slow down the car sounds like its going to die, and the sunroof is falling in. One more complaint I have is the windshield wipers only have 4 settings, I have gotten very used to the million setting the explorer has. Now Im grateful to my mother for letting me use it and not going through the hassle of renting something but I would just love to know why people love these Toyota cars so much.

 

[Joe Dirt]

You know, I concur.

My dad bought a new F150, and sold his old one. The dealer managed to sell the one he was buying (different dealer) and he needed to borrow My Ex for a week to get all of our hunting stuff home, needed the trailer hitch and stuff.

So, I've been driving my Mom's 2007 Camry XLE with 66k for the last week.

Going in, I wanted to like it- I really did, and I gave it a good fair shot.

My observations: The car looks good. I like it. It rolls smooth on the highway, accelerates pretty quickly, and the brakes are pretty good too- and the JBL system is really pretty decent for a factory system. The seats are really good, and much better than the ones in my 2004 Taurus. The steering is good, and the car itself is quiet. Mileage is really good.

BUT...

It's horrid to drive from 0-75. The trans shifts so hard from reverse to neutral to drive, (like backing out of your driveway) you have to stop the car entirely and hold the brake or it'll whip your head back actually really bad. There is no smooth transition at all, it's for lack of a better term- violent. I had the oil changed at the Toyo dealership today, and drove another one, an '08 LE- same thing. The idle quality is better in my Ex, and we all know how Ex's idle. Cruising, the thing shifts so much with even the hint of a hill, it drives you crazy. They have it geared for mileage, so the shifting is ridiculous. It surges at lights when slowing down, and the downshifts are harsh, and it really isn't the most enjoyable thing to drive because of all of the surges, rough running, and general malaise the engine and trans seem to have. I really don't want my Mom to drive it-she's 73 in December, and I just don't fee safe in it, and I'm a very aware driver- and on top of most things going on with the vehicle, and I can see that car surging at a traffic light for her. Thankfully, she is trading it in for a new Taurus this spring.

We have another guy at work that just bought a new Tacoma, and the idle is ridiculous at startup, and it surges too. It's weird. I don't think that the new Toyotas are any better than anyone else's cars, they're just hyped a whole heck of a lot more.

 

[410Fortune]

they keep their resale value and run for 300K+ miles, thats what people love about Toyota's

 

[GCDMD]

they keep their resale value and run for 300K+ miles, thats what people love about Toyota's

They do keep their resale value, though I disagree with the 300K+ longevity. They seem to be prone to very much of the same problems other makes and models are. Their longevity is a fabrication of excellent marketing. IMHO, they are the best marketed vehicles, not necessarily the best built.

 

[Joe Dirt]

All vehicles are built with nuts and bolts. Now-a-days, I don't think any of them last any longer than another one, unless there are major issues with a certain component, like the trans in a 2002 Explorer.

 

[410Fortune]

They seem to be prone to very much of the same problems other makes and models are. Their longevity is a fabrication of excellent marketing. IMHO, they are the best marketed vehicles, not necessarily the best built.

hmmm really?

is that why I still see many many 80's and early 90's Camry's, celica's, Civics, and Accords still driving the streets with legal tags?
Last time I looked not many Tempo's, Escorts, rabbits, geo storms, etc still driving around from the 80's and early 90's

my experience is with Toyota trucks, the 4 runner and pickup, anything with a 5 speed and 22e is going to last forever IMO you cant kill them

Now I am not a fan of Yota or Honda, all my vehicles are Ford, but come on now a 84 Escort vs a 84 Celica? hands down the Celica is the better bang for the $$$ and always has been

 

[specialized7]

ya you cant kill a SR5, well actully you can but my buddy is in love with 4 runners, he has 3 of them all with over 300 000 and they just keep going i really couldnt believe it.

 

[IZwack]

The car rattles @ 40mph, the gas mileage is a stellar 19mpg, the brand new brakes shudder, after a cold start when you slow down the car sounds like its going to die, and the sunroof is falling in

Sounds more like either it hasnt been properly maintained, or the car has been abused, or both. I mean we have a 2002 Camry in my family, and my relatives have plenty others like the recent Rav4 and 4Runner - no sunroof issues.

If the car is rattling at 40 mph, then I dont know, maybe you hit a pot hole somewhere or drover over a curb? Get it taken care of before it leads to more problems (wheel bearings for example).

 

[alexk]

Sounds more like either it hasnt been properly maintained, or the car has been abused, or both. I mean we have a 2002 Camry in my family, and my relatives have plenty others like the recent Rav4 and 4Runner - no sunroof issues.

If the car is rattling at 40 mph, then I dont know, maybe you hit a pot hole somewhere or drover over a curb? Get it taken care of before it leads to more problems (wheel bearings for example).

The car has been meticulously maintained. My mother is **** about getting things for maintence done before they are due, like oil changed every 2500 miles. The sunroof started to look like it was falling in at 34K miles and the dealer said it looked fine and said since its not leaking just leave it. Idk how much abuse she can put on it either. She drive 2 miles round trip to work 4 days a week and about 3 or 4 trips to the mall at 22 miles round trip. Its not like the thing is being raced, its driven by a 47 year old (dont tell her I told you that, next week will be her 35th birthday, again, lol.) woman.


My parents both think these toyotas are bulletproof, I told them about the things like the rattle and the brakes and they just brushed it off. My mechanic did the brakes using toyota parts so Ill see what he can do about that and Ill have him check out the rattle, in a way I hope something is wrong with it just so I can stop hearing about how much more reliable their toyotas are then my ford and how I should have gotten a toyota.

 

[GCDMD]

hmmm really?

is that why I still see many many 80's and early 90's Camry's, celica's, Civics, and Accords still driving the streets with legal tags?
Last time I looked not many Tempo's, Escorts, rabbits, geo storms, etc still driving around from the 80's and early 90's

my experience is with Toyota trucks, the 4 runner and pickup, anything with a 5 speed and 22e is going to last forever IMO you cant kill them

Now I am not a fan of Yota or Honda, all my vehicles are Ford, but come on now a 84 Escort vs a 84 Celica? hands down the Celica is the better bang for the $$$ and always has been

Actually now that you mention it, I see far more 80s Ford (mostly pickups here in Nevada, can't speak for small sedans as snow storms in winter pretty much render those useless) SUVs and trucks than I do toyotas of the same era. With regards to the 22e being invincible, tell that to one of my colleagues whom has had to replace the motor at the ripe mileage of 189K miles with regular maintenance. Is 189K poor for a motor?? Absolutely not, but it is far from the "300K billion trillion miles without an oil change" so many believe they are capable of. My wife's 88 landcruiser died at 215K and those are, likewise, supposed to be "invincible." I had to repair that POS every other weekend, and that vehicle had nothing but a cherished life. How many of those old 80s toyotas are running on a solid frame??? Look underneath an 80s toyota truck (if you can find one) and see how much it has rusted through, THEN tell me that it will last forever. There is alot more to a car than just an engine and drivetrain.
Much of it has to do with clientele (upper scale families will do the required maintenance when needed, lower income may not have the ability/funds to do so), maintenance on a day-day basis, and general driving conditions. To say that one brand will last "forever" is just simply not true. EVERY car will have problems and will eventually succumb to fatigue. No manufacturer can deny physics or, for lack of a better term, entropy.
I don't intend for this reply to sound in any way insulting, or degrading to your opinion. I've almost always agreed with ya 410, I just have to disagree on this one point.

 

[IZwack]

So if all vehicles eventually fail (which I agree to), then there is no point in this thread is there? Because there are too many variables that play into a vehicle's longevity and everyone has, had or knows some1 who's had a vehicle which situation-X has happened to.
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[alexk]

I wasnt trying to get at the all vehicles fail eventually, I was just wondering why a car with such low miles (11K a year and that includes trips from NJ to FL and OBX) is acting like this. My explorer doesnt even have any rattles and when all the coils are good you cant even tell its on when its idleing. That truck is 4 years older and has an over 50,000 more miles on it.

I see a lot of late 80's/early 90's toyota and hondas around here. But I dont think the same quality that went into those toyotas are still there today. Honda, Ill admit does make a good car, they might not be the best looking but IMO the new accord is very nice and upscale looking inside in the ex-l's with navi that I have been in, never been in a newer ex/lx so I couldnt judge on that.

Joe, or anyone else with a camry, do you feel every little bump on the road in the gas pedal?

 

[GCDMD]

So if all vehicles eventually fail (which I agree to), then there is no point in this thread is there? Because there are too many variables that play into a vehicle's longevity and everyone has, had or knows some1 who's had a vehicle which situation-X has happened to.
Posted via Mobile Device

Not to beat a dead horse, but ALL vehicles WILL fail eventually, but that is not necessarily the point of this thread. I know everybody will agree with the statement that no car will ever continue to run infinitely, all cars have a definite lifespan. Whether that lifespan is 50K miles or 1 million miles without tremendous expenditure is the argument, and hence the reason why this thread continue to be valid. :

Uh oh, I think I may have just beat that dead horse into a bloody pulp.

 

[IZwack]

Whether that lifespan is 50K miles or 1 million miles without tremendous expenditure is the argument, and hence the reason why this thread continue to be valid. :

But there are too many variables that dictate whether a vehicle will last 50k miles or 1 million miles. Anything from weather, driving habits, or maybe the robot at the plant was just having a bad day and under-torque the valve body by 1 inch-pound than normal causing some abnormality 40k miles later.

I think part of the problem is that people do not know how to operate their vehicles or what its been designed for. A great example is the 4wd system on the Explorers - pleeeenty of people engaging them on dry pavement which then wrecks the transfer case. And then there are those who think burnouts are cool, cook the clutch plates and when snow comes, the front axle wont engage. In addition, cars are getting more and more complex which just means there are more parts that has the potential to fail.

There will always be two sides to whether car brand X is better than Y because there will always be at least one person who can say "yes X is better than Y because my uncle had one and it lasted 350k miles". Conversely, there will always be at least one other person who can say "no because my uncle had one and it only lasted 40k miles before the engine had to be serviced". An example of this is the 7.3 PowerStroke - some people can attest to the great designed of this engine. And then there are those that call it "Power Joke" because someone's uncle's truck is in the shop just about every other week.

So at the end of the day (or the thread), do we really gain or learn anything worthwhile when both sides of the argument have strong arguments backed by plenty of experience? Because if we dont, then I dont know, maybe I've just wasted my time typing this up when I could have been doing my homework or practicing my welds.

 

[GCDMD]

But there are too many variables that dictate whether a vehicle will last 50k miles or 1 million miles. Anything from weather, driving habits, or maybe the robot at the plant was just having a bad day and under-torque the valve body by 1 inch-pound than normal causing some abnormality 40k miles later.

I think part of the problem is that people do not know how to operate their vehicles or what its been designed for. A great example is the 4wd system on the Explorers - pleeeenty of people engaging them on dry pavement which then wrecks the transfer case. And then there are those who think burnouts are cool, cook the clutch plates and when snow comes, the front axle wont engage. In addition, cars are getting more and more complex which just means there are more parts that has the potential to fail.

There will always be two sides to whether car brand X is better than Y because there will always be at least one person who can say "yes X is better than Y because my uncle had one and it lasted 350k miles". Conversely, there will always be at least one other person who can say "no because my uncle had one and it only lasted 40k miles before the engine had to be serviced". An example of this is the 7.3 PowerStroke - some people can attest to the great designed of this engine. And then there are those that call it "Power Joke" because someone's uncle's truck is in the shop just about every other week.

So at the end of the day (or the thread), do we really gain or learn anything worthwhile when both sides of the argument have strong arguments backed by plenty of experience? Because if we dont, then I dont know, maybe I've just wasted my time typing this up when I could have been doing my homework or practicing my welds.

First and foremost, that was a very well written reply. It's refreshing to actually read a comment on the web that has forethought and correct grammar in place of LOLzie and ROFLRMFOEMs. Off topic I know, but just had to say that before my actual response.

You bring up a great point, but it the measure of how brand X and brand Y stand up to the real world that is of any consequence. True, there are myriad of variables, and perhaps even variables in how individuals react to or adapt to such variables. However, when push comes to shove and slap comes to punch (just made that one up...not sure if I like it), people yearn for a black and white answer on whether a particular make is more resistant to all real world variables, regardless of severity, than others. I concur with you whole-heartedly, it is difficult if not impossible to argue whether one manufacturer is indeed superior to another based purely on speculation such as: "I see more of blank than blank on the road,"- that does not indicate how much work was necessary to put blank in drivable condition. Also, all variables in the driving world aside, there are variations in how each car is manufactured like you previously discussed using the example of robots under-torquing a particular component. In effect, your argument almost dictates that no particular make or model are superior as any review, barring standardized double-blind studies, is essentially a reflection of that particular vehicle, not the company it represents. I agree, but this also concurs with the original poster's concern that Toyota vehicles are not all they are cracked up to be. All vehicles have problems and with purely speculative opinions to offer a different stance, it is just that-speculation. So, is "legendary toyota reliability" (ewww, just puked in my mouth a little) a fabrication of speculation, consumer reports (and now just puked on the floor) grandization, or actual superior engineering? Certain comments lend me to believe the initial two possibilities. "These things are bulletproof." "Toyotas last forever, I never even changed the oil." "I have 2 billion miles on the same air filter." Obviously, I am grossly over-exaggerating (somewhat) the positive comments, but such comments are obviously outside the realm of reality as all vehicles are prone to certain wear and fatigue. With the temperature ranges, harsh conditions, and driver abuse all vehicles are subject to, there are always weak points that will initially take the brunt and those points will fail. Period. Nothing is immune to degradation.

In evaluating anything, there are most certainly too many variables to precisely place a label of superiority. While this does place a shadow of doubt on our final conclusions, there is no way of eluding it. We can only assume that the average driver in the more widespread consumer automobile manufacturers (Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, honda, Toyota, Nissan) are roughly equivalent and make our judgments based on that knowing full well that it is not perfect.


I think we just complicated this thread.

 

[IZwack]

In effect, your argument almost dictates that no particular make or model are superior as any review, barring standardized double-blind studies

Sorry I should have mentioned that the original discussion of this thread is a small group's perspective - an evaluation in the "micro" scale - which is useless because of people's tendency to over generalize the quality of a brand because of a particular fault in that one or a few units. In the end, perhaps the only measure we have of "quality" are the surveys and polls which spans a broader sample group. Of course this includes with it numerous other factors (some of which has been mentioned like a sample group's financial situation) but such "after X number of years, there are more X than Y vehicles" type of reviews/polls are the only measure we have of automotive quality because they 1) sample a greater population which covers a wide range of driving habits living in 2) differing economic capacities and 3) exist in a wide range of environmental conditions. As such, a "macro" review of vehicle quality would then surpass the chit-chat of "my uncle's Ford only lasted 40k miles" because it is a better representation of the quality than what we can cover in a forum discussion. If such a review/poll claims that brand X is better than Y, and assuming there is no bias or fault in their methodology, then we can't really argue that claim because they're sample size is probably larger than ours.

Having said all that (and to kind of get back on topic), I think the claim that Toyota's quality is primo supremo is perhaps a side-effect of Toyota being one of the most recognizable and largest brands across the globe. Toyota obviously didnt just pop out of nowhere overnight and from the beginning, Toyota has been at the forefront of quality control adopting Taguchi's very early - methodologies and practices which Bill Smith incorporates into the now infamous "Six-Sigma".

 

[bisjoe]

ya you cant kill a SR5, well actully you can but my buddy is in love with 4 runners, he has 3 of them all with over 300 000 and they just keep going i really couldnt believe it.

I guess the '94 4Runner SR% we had was a lemon. The trans cost $3,200 to rebuild at 86,000 miles, then at 99,000 it blew a head gasket. Luckily they had a "secret recall" on it up to 100k miles. That thing ate up rotors, never got more than 10-12k miles on them and they'd warp so badly you could hardly hold on to the steering wheel from the shaking.

 

[IZwack]

Eeeexactly. For every claim of A, there is a claim for -A.

 

[nvrenufedge]

Every car maker is gonna have lemons. I think Toyota's are known more for reliability. Does that change my mind about Ford......nope, still love 'em.

I have a 1993 Toyota 2wd pickup with the 22RE 4 cyl. that has 191K original miles. No major motor work has ever been done to it. I had my bro-in-law replace the timing chain a year ago and he said the motor inside looked as good if not better than a new one. He doesn't see why I would not get 300-400k out of my truck.

 

[EX-SV]

My experience after owning Toyota Rav4 and Highlander and Ford Explorer currently, a Toyota is significantly more reliable than Ford.