What to use on TTY Head Bolts?

[kitra]

Our '99 5.0 V8 is getting the heads reworked from the broken off intake manifold bolts. For only 77K miles and its life on Synthetic oils, the heads were in bad shape. Exhaust valves very worn - needs new ones. Valve seats are also badly receded. The Machine Shop says Ford doesn't use hardened seats on these heads so flame hardens them - not real effective but it's cheap. Anyway, I'm getting hardened seats fitted, new exhaust valves, surface planed, guides reworked, and seals for a grand total of $750! Probably not a good way to spend our money? We are thinking of trading it in after I get it running but if we don't, I didn't want to take the lower-priced shortcut on the heads ($475).

Anyway, does anyone know what I'm supposed to put on the head bolts to install them??? Some references say "oil", some say "dry" and some say use some type of sealer since they screw into the water jackets. I'm really hoping someone here knows since we have lots of Ford expertise here. And if someone knows, I'd appreciate a brand name of lubricant, sealer, or whatever should be used. The torque of the heads is odd, torque bolts to 55 Ft pounds and then twist the bolts another 90 degrees. Thanks for any information that you can provide.

 

[Dan Whitaker]

I wouldn't use TTY bolts. I would invest a little more in some ARP head bolts or studs.

I say the shop has their head up their ass stating the valve seats are not hardened. Unleaded fuel requires hardened valve seats. I have 220k miles on my 97 5.0 and it's never been touched.

 

[ranger7ltr]

Head bolts...

I have always used Aviation form-a-gasket with is a sealer on the head bolts going into the water jacket...On the other head bolts I have used engine oil to dip the head bolts into before installing them...

The torque sequence you listed is proper according to Ford...I have built a number of small block/big block Fords and their torque specs have never let me down...And if you want non TTY fasteners in your engine use head studs instead of bolts...To my knowledge, all Ford specification head bolts are torque to yield...Even ARP Ford small block head bolts are TTY..Frankly trying to reuse head bolts is like trying to reuse gaskets...Bolts are not that expensive if you are rebuilding the engine or the top end...

BTW the cost to rebuild your heads is a bit high...Clearwater cylinder heads has v8 Explorer heads for 250 all day long...And that is with no core charge... I think shipping is about 25 each head...And Ford has been using hardened seats since the mid 70's when unleaded fuel became the standard and leaded fuel went bye bye...

 

[kitra]

I'm think I too may have paid too much also.

Yes, the shop here in Portland Oregon is supposed to be one of the best around. Bearing Service Inc. The shop is family owned and passed down through generations. The owners are perfectionists. He told me they are cast-iron heads with flame-hardened valve seats. He claims that grinding the seats will remove some of the hardened seat material and possibly leave soft spots. So grind without new seats ($475) or machine in hardened steel seat inserts for the scary total of $750.

I bought new Ford head bolts and intake manifold bolts. The shop manual I have (Ford issue) says nothing about using anything on the head bolts during installation. I've used motor oil in the past but with bolts screwing right into the water jackets, it seems like something should be on the threads? So are you talking about using Permatex Super 300? That stuff in amazing. I used to use that for years building air-cooled VW engines.

 

[kitra]

I'm convinced the Machine shop is doing the right thing

I just had a talk with the owner of the machine shop and he told me how soft cast-iron is. They don't take any chances on assuming the seat is still surface hardened after the grind. So the choice is seat inserts or not. He said it's just like turning a nitride hardened crankshaft - you turn it, the hardened surface is no more. I chose the expensive route. This shop is amazing and rebuilds engines, heads, etc for owners of Lamborgini's, Aston Martin's, and so on. They get parts shipped to them from all over the country to be reworked. Extremely precision work and they don't like to take shortcuts. So I suspect they do charge a bit more than an average shop. Hopefully I can figure out how to put the engine back together.

 

[ranger7ltr]

Here is a link to what I use...

I have used super 300 but this is what I prefer in this situation...

http://www.devcon.com/products/products.cfm?familyid=384&sr=1&CFID=33280244&CFTOKEN=49845002

It is available at most auto parts stores...

I am sure you can re-assemble the topend but if you hit a snag holla back...