Why did Powerdyne decide to tension down onto the supercharger belt instead of pulling up from the bottom portion? | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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Why did Powerdyne decide to tension down onto the supercharger belt instead of pulling up from the bottom portion?

MuscleJunkie

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'00 Ford Explorer LTD AWD
As you can see in this photo (taken when I did the intial fitting on my Ford Motorsport SVO Powerdyne Supercharger on Big White, the manual tensioner for the blower pushes down onto the supercharger belt.

When I had a discussion with Torqstorm today, I was asked (or maybe told) that the tensioner should "pull up" from the bottom portion of the supercharger belt instead of pushing down. Something about load, etc that I really didn't understand. I was told if this were changed, the blower would be much happier.

Any thoughts about this?

tktyk.jpg
 



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As you can see in this photo (taken when I did the intial fitting on my Ford Motorsport SVO Powerdyne Supercharger on Big White, the manual tensioner for the blower pushes down onto the supercharger belt.

When I had a discussion with Torqstorm today, I was asked (or maybe told) that the tensioner should "pull up" from the bottom portion of the supercharger belt instead of pushing down. Something about load, etc that I really didn't understand. I was told if this were changed, the blower would be much happier.

Any thoughts about this?

View attachment 439534
got the post? my guess is usually the tension (depending on tensioner condition) will push down harder than pull up, as long as belt isnt stretched then the tension will be consistent if its pulling up but w/ tensioner variable it can be too high tot too lose, and plus gravity does th epullign down already ;)
 






got the post? my guess is usually the tension (depending on tensioner condition) will push down harder than pull up, as long as belt isnt stretched then the tension will be consistent if its pulling up but w/ tensioner variable it can be too high tot too lose, and plus gravity does th epullign down already ;)
I spoke with Chris over at torqstorm and this was the 1st thing he said when he saw the photo I posted above. I'll write him and ask for some clarification. Just remember some mention about tension being on the "slack" side or something like that.
 






Tensioner should be on non load side. Load side will stretch and keep itself tight, while the non load side gets sloppy and requires more tension
 






Tensioner should be on non load side. Load side will stretch and keep itself tight, while the non load side gets sloppy and requires more tension
And on the Powerdyne for Explorer, that is where? Is it correct the way Powerdyne is doing it as you can see in this fitting photo...?

tktyk.jpg
 


















I spoke with Chris over at torqstorm and this was the 1st thing he said when he saw the photo I posted above. I'll write him and ask for some clarification. Just remember some mention about tension being on the "slack" side or something like that.
thinking of this as a direct drive (and maybe im overthinking this) s the difference in tension between the pulley and belt. if the pulley is spinning counter clockwise the friction will be counter clockwise since relative motion is clockwise. the belt above the pulley will push don harder

some math (i think, i might be wrong here)

f=p/v
stock say you make 200 hp, or 149200 nms, belt moves at 20 mph or 8.9408 ms
f=~16687.5447 (as far as my calculator shows), say 16687 newtons
tension on tight side is F*(1+1/(eua))
loose tension is F*(1/(eua))
i believe e to be 2.718
im gonna guess friction of belt or u is .5
a is the groove angle im gonna use 20 degrees or .35 radians

plugging this all in

16687*(1+1/2.718*.5*.35)
16687*(1/2.718*.5*.35)

16687*3.102=51763
16687*2.102=35076
power=(51763-35076)*belt speed (or 8.9408) which is 149195 newtons, very close to the initial number of 149200 newtons
the slack side is about 67% of the tight side.
 






So the way that Powerdyne has it tensioning is not correct or ??

That video is crazy
Is not desirable, no. As yours is, the tensioner moves before the blower does, so to speak.
 






pretty sure tensioner belongs on the non load side since there is that slack difference from the tight side, so it will help take up that slack to keep that difference from being as large, since if the tensioner is on the other side, that 67% could become less and less
 






Ok, just so I know I am not crazy - anyone that has installed a powerdyne on the explorer has the supercharger belt tensioner (not the accessory belt one - I customized that with a spring loaded one) like this right?

So if it were better for it to be tensioned on the bottom side of the belt loop, any idea how this could be done?

tktyk.jpg
 






add a second tensioner underneath?
Superduty double pulley tensioner?
Would just have to fiddle around with positioning and belt lengths
 












push up
Tension belt on both sides of the charger pulley? I'm just spitballing here

So with elevator motors getting traction is everything. Traditional elevators use round ropes and the drive sheaves are v grooved to get traction on the rope. When we do not have enough “arc of contact” on the drive sheave we either use deflector sheave (like a tensioner” to get more contact or we do what’s called double wrap traction so the ropes go around the drive sheave twice. The drive sheave is twice as wide with twice as many grooves and a second sheave is used so the ropes travel over the pulley two times. No more rope slip all the traction the elevator would ever need. I often wondered why these blowers don’t use a second much smaller belt to just go over the pulley and maybe over the crankshaft again? Since that maybe a long shot adding a second pulley on the crank damper and a double wide pulley on the charger. You need to increase the belt tension and the arc of contact (get more belt touching the pulley like a full 180 degrees or more of belt contact

Would be neat if they made pulleys for the entire serpentine setup that could use a double wide belt

FYI Otis uses a drive belt now instead of individual ropes
Tons of traction on those elevators, their belts can be 18-36” wide they are rubber with metal cables impregnated

Food for thought! Supercharger pulley needs as much arc of contact as you can get and I see no harm in adding a pulley or second tensioner in order to achieve this
 


















Here is a photo of the mustang setup by Powerdyne - they did the same thing with the tensioner there tooView attachment 439575
hmmm not sure then. maybe its ok, or ok enough for most uses? or it was the easiest way to go about it, so they did that, since it is "good enough" i just cant see how that is the optimal setup.
push up
Tension belt on both sides of the charger pulley? I'm just spitballing here

So with elevator motors getting traction is everything. Traditional elevators use round ropes and the drive sheaves are v grooved to get traction on the rope. When we do not have enough “arc of contact” on the drive sheave we either use deflector sheave (like a tensioner” to get more contact or we do what’s called double wrap traction so the ropes go around the drive sheave twice. The drive sheave is twice as wide with twice as many grooves and a second sheave is used so the ropes travel over the pulley two times. No more rope slip all the traction the elevator would ever need. I often wondered why these blowers don’t use a second much smaller belt to just go over the pulley and maybe over the crankshaft again? Since that maybe a long shot adding a second pulley on the crank damper and a double wide pulley on the charger. You need to increase the belt tension and the arc of contact (get more belt touching the pulley like a full 180 degrees or more of belt contact

Would be neat if they made pulleys for the entire serpentine setup that could use a double wide belt

FYI Otis uses a drive belt now instead of individual ropes
Tons of traction on those elevators, their belts can be 18-36” wide they are rubber with metal cables impregnated

Food for thought! Supercharger pulley needs as much arc of contact as you can get and I see no harm in adding a pulley or second tensioner in order to achieve this
just wanted to say that you have a knack for explaining stuff that should be complicated in a way that at least I understand!
 






Please look at your own posts, beautiful pics you dug up, it’s much easier to place the tensioner. U can do better? Hindsight’s, whatever.
 






Please look at your own posts, beautiful pics you dug up, it’s much easier to place the tensioner. U can do better? Hindsight’s, whatever.
I added a spring loaded tensioner to replace the manual one that powerdyne supplied for the accessory belt. The idea came from an old post on this site.

I've seen several posts where people have taken the procharger auto tensioner and modified it to use with the Powerdyne supercharger belt. But just about everything I'm coming across - they all tension the powerdyne by pushing down on the top of the supercharger belt. I can't find one example where someone has pushed up from the bottom of the belt.

When I get this think apart this week, going to have a look at what sort of space is available to possibly do this. My gut at this moment is telling me probably not likely - so the procharger auto tensioner solution might be something to look at. I'll probably be switching out the BD-11A for an XB-1A or torqstorm very soon - so it will have to be addressed all at the same time.
 



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The tensioner is on the wrong side of the belt an automatic tensioner has spring in it you don't want your belt to spring you want the manual tensioner to keep the belt always at the same tension automatic spring loaded tensioner will not work on that side of the belt must be manual.
 






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