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why the plastic guides on timing chain?

Mbrooks420

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It’d be a super easy piece to make. Could be cranked right out. I wouldn’t want the liability of bonding the plastic to them though.
 
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Paul Fithian

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I recently replaced the valve cover gaskets on my Job 1 2001 Sport Trac, 272,000 miles with the original engine. Both timing guides look to be in good shape.

It has chain rattle only on cold startup, but using the following cold start procedure pressurizes the tensioner and eliminates rattle:

1) Press accelerator to the floor
2) While holding the accelerator to the floor, crank the engine until oil pressure registers on the idiot gauge
3) Continue to crank, and let your foot off of the accelerator. The engine will start up perfectly with no chain rattle

Although these engines have a bad reputation, this one is smooth and strong. Doesn't burn oil at all.

Timing Chain Guide Left Side.jpg


Timing Chain Guide Right Side.jpg


Engine buld label.jpg
 
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Foz1359

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I see your pass side cassette is still intact. Found mine (140k) in the timing chain well, in a few chunks! There's some in this thread that believe I'm relying on JB Weld alone, I'm not. I drilled a set of tiny holes through the "yoke" slot on the salvaged guide piece, friction fit a copper pin across the yoke opening and above the guide bolt, and bedded them in with JB Weld. Anyway, the rig we cobbled together from the bigger chunk is hanging in there (literally hanging on the guide pin), she's still running on a sliver of copper, some JB Weld and numerous prayers. YMMV.

Ya'll be good to one another.

Mike
 
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96eb96

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imp

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How did they manage to mount huge V8s in FWD Continentals and Taurus with serviceable external pumps.
@96eb96

And, reveal too why use of a remote-mounted electric pump could not have been used instead, with either type of drive-line? imp
 
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Mbrooks420

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@96eb96

And, reveal too why use of a remote-mounted electric pump could not have been used instead, with either type of drive-line? imp
I’m surprised this wasn’t the route taken due to the increase in electric drive accessories, like power steering and AC.
 
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imp

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I’m surprised this wasn’t the route taken due to the increase in electric drive accessories, like power steering and AC.
@Mbrooks420

Me too! I guess statistically, adding electrically-driven accessories adds more junk into the "soup of failure probability": Belt-driven, one variable: belt goes away. Electrically driven: Wiring, Fusing, added alternator load, drive-motor vulnerability. But, "pros" are there, too: ability to control water pump rate adds to fuel economy. Likely same for power steering, much lower pump output needed driving at speed than swiveling about in a parking space. imp
 
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I recently replaced the valve cover gaskets on my Job 1 2001 Sport Trac, 272,000 miles with the original engine. Both timing guides look to be in good shape.

It has chain rattle only on cold startup, but using the following cold start procedure pressurizes the tensioner and eliminates rattle:

1) Press accelerator to the floor
2) While holding the accelerator to the floor, crank the engine until oil pressure registers on the idiot gauge
3) Continue to crank, and let your foot off of the accelerator. The engine will start up perfectly with no chain rattle

Although these engines have a bad reputation, this one is smooth and strong. Doesn't burn oil at all.

View attachment 167435

View attachment 167436

View attachment 167437
Your rear guide is busted at the pivot pin. You can see its up against the head casting, it should have a space and be up against the torq screw.
 
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swshawaii

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My "upper positioning bolt" looks the same as Paul's.

Ue2iK8A.jpg
un8P0X8.jpg
 
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david4451

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This is what it should look like.
IMG_20180521_105230.jpg
 
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I was going to say that rear guide sure rides a lot further forward than mine, but mine looks a lot more like that last picture.
You are correct. The picture above is how it's supposed to sit. The gentleman with 270k has a busted rear cassette so the chain is probably only riding on half the guide.

I just picked up another explorer with some rattle. Gonna try the JB weld fix. But my thought is, why can't I buy another guide, and disconnect it from the pivot pin. Then take the metal backed traction part, flip it upside down, and bolt it to the upper positioning bolt with a couple spacers so the chain rides on that?

That way you'd have 2 of the same parts. Not a permanent fix but definitely a trial run.
 
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donalds

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Forge one out of beer cans
Sounds crazy but just might work
 
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Paul Fithian

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Sorry, but I can’t tell what is broken on mine from the pictures.
 
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Forge one out of beer cans
Sounds crazy but just might work
Im gonna try it. I've got a couple ideas, gonna draw them on paper and post it later. Keep in mind, I have an explorer that I did a total rebuild on. This one is just to goof around.

Worth a shot, if it lasts 30k then the truck was worth my $500.
 
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david4451

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Sorry, but I can’t tell what is broken on mine from the pictures.
I doubt your rear cassette is broken lower down near pivot pin but it is not being held in place by that top fancy bolt where it has damage. So the chain does not run fully/centrally on plastic.

A repair is possible, find a way to hold top of that plastic back against the rear of the cylinder head. Originally it was held by groove in plastic (loosely) that groove on back of cylinder head has gone due to breakage.

I don't advocate repair, but without pulling engine and fitting new cassette that's your only option. If you don't figure a way to hold plastic against back of head your on borrowed time now. It will break near pivot and get crunched up, probably causing the need for another engine.
 
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imp

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You are correct. The picture above is how it's supposed to sit. The gentleman with 270k has a busted rear cassette so the chain is probably only riding on half the guide.

I just picked up another explorer with some rattle. Gonna try the JB weld fix. But my thought is, why can't I buy another guide, and disconnect it from the pivot pin. Then take the metal backed traction part, flip it upside down, and bolt it to the upper positioning bolt with a couple spacers so the chain rides on that?

That way you'd have 2 of the same parts. Not a permanent fix but definitely a trial run.
@Thev6thatcould
Metal friction against metal friction is tricky business. If both surfaces are very hard, it works effectively, or in the case of certain dissimilar metals, works well, like steel on bronze. One other factor is the need for constant lubrication. imp
 
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@Thev6thatcould
Metal friction against metal friction is tricky business. If both surfaces are very hard, it works effectively, or in the case of certain dissimilar metals, works well, like steel on bronze. One other factor is the need for constant lubrication. imp
You are 100% correct and that's why ford engineered the nylon over the metal. What I'm saying is if I take a new cassette, split it in 2, and take the metal backed traction guide and bolt it upside down at the upper positioning bolt, it MAY work. Again, it'll need some trial and error but I'm out to design something that may be a temp fix.
 
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imp

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You are 100% correct and that's why ford engineered the nylon over the metal. What I'm saying is if I take a new cassette, split it in 2, and take the metal backed traction guide and bolt it upside down at the upper positioning bolt, it MAY work. Again, it'll need some trial and error but I'm out to design something that may be a temp fix.
@Thev6thatcould
I had no intention of discouraging you.....I've done every possible fix over the years "outside of the box" that you could think of. Got a lotta experience that way! Not sorry I did it, either! Get busy! imp
 
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