XE258 Comp Cam

[Vogenitz69]

Hi there,
My names Bill. I'm an active ranger enthusiast and have some questions that have led me here! I am in the process of a 5.0 swap. Essentially I am using the entire drivetrain of a 1999 Ford Explorer XLT AWD.
My goal is to achieve 300 Horsepower @ Crank (or to the wheels if deemed necessary) Currently set aside are a set of Torque Monster Headers, a MAC CAI, and an SCT tuner for custom tuning. My V8 ranger, while more powerful than any stock ranger, won't be a gas guzzler compared to both a stock explorer or ranger.
Lately during my endeavors I have come across a couple cams that have peaked my interest in my effort towards 300. One being the XE258. But before we talk about who's cam is better and why, I'd like to know if the explorer ecu is capable of compensating for a mild cam or if tuning is required. Tuning will happen either way, I just don't want the cam to damage anything before it happens. Thanks in advance guys
Bill

 

[2000StreetRod]

Fuel limited?

I have no hands on experience with the 5.0L but going from 210 to 300 bhp is a 40% increase. Also, 300 rwhp equates to about 360 bhp. I suspect the engine will be lean at WOT at high engine speeds. Your stock MAF sensor will probably peg so the PCM no longer increases the injector pulse width as the engine speed increases. There's also the possibility that even if the stock injectors are open continuously they will not provide enough fuel. I suggest that you decide on what performance you want and can afford (cams, pistons, valves, heads, etc.) and then size your MAF sensor and injectors accordingly. Your custom tune should be part of your fuel upgrade. You'll need a wideband AFR meter for the tune.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

before you change cams, you will also need to find out if your valve springs will be up to the lift your cam has (most likely it wont). also, the computer wont be too happy with a larger cam. you will need tuning, and like 2000streetrod said, you will need a wideband for tuning.
also like 2000streetrod pointed out, that is a large increase you are looking for. it takes a lot to get to that level, and most people dont realize that.

 

[MAS Tequila]

If you're looking for 300 bhp+, what heads do you plan to use?

300 will be difficult with the stock heads.

It takes a complete package, not just a cam.

MT

 

[Vogenitz69]

I forgot to add that i want to get the lower intake ported.
Yes I do plan on upgrading the valve springs, that is a must.
Injector size is something I did not think about. But I will also add that I won't be seeing above 4500rpm very often (not that it matters since I want safe & reliable throughout the power band)

 

[Vogenitz69]

I have no hands on experience with the 5.0L but going from 210 to 300 bhp is a 40% increase. Also, 300 rwhp equates to about 360 bhp. I suspect the engine will be lean at WOT at high engine speeds. Your stock MAF sensor will probably peg so the PCM no longer increases the injector pulse width as the engine speed increases. There's also the possibility that even if the stock injectors are open continuously they will not provide enough fuel. I suggest that you decide on what performance you want and can afford (cams, pistons, valves, heads, etc.) and then size your MAF sensor and injectors accordingly. Your custom tune should be part of your fuel upgrade. You'll need a wideband AFR meter for the tune.

Thank you guys for the responses!
A set of 94-95 cobra 24# injectors should cure the lean when I get to that point, but my question is will the explorer run safely with my mods and a mild cam? I'll get more out of all my mods once it's tuned in, but is it safe to run until I tune it

 

[crispins]

Bill, are you putting in the motor without rebuilding it and just changing the cam?

I am currently installing a V8 from a 98 Explorer into my Sport Trac but am having it rebuilt first. I have researched and do not see how to get 300 HP from this motor easily.

 

[2000StreetRod]

What's the point?

What's the point of upgrading your cam and valve springs now if you don't intend to use the added power at higher engine speeds? You'll be sacrificing fuel economy at low engine speeds and not benefitting from the potential added performance. Also, you'll be tempted to try WOT at high rpm which could be harmful without an AFR meter to monitor. I'm not familiar with the XE258 specifications but if it's mild enough that you can run it without concern of detonation the performance improvement will probably not be that significant. Headers and a CAI will not increase the airflow enough to peg the stock MAF sensor. Why take the engine apart twice - first to replace the cam and valve springs and second to upgrade the injectors?

 

[Vogenitz69]

What's the point of upgrading your cam and valve springs now if you don't intend to use the added power at higher engine speeds? You'll be sacrificing fuel economy at low engine speeds and not benefitting from the potential added performance. Also, you'll be tempted to try WOT at high rpm which could be harmful without an AFR meter to monitor. I'm not familiar with the XE258 specifications but if it's mild enough that you can run it without concern of detonation the performance improvement will probably not be that significant. Headers and a CAI will not increase the airflow enough to peg the stock MAF sensor. Why take the engine apart twice - first to replace the cam and valve springs and second to upgrade the injectors?

The XE258 powerband starts at 1300rpm and drops after 5300rpm. It increases low end torque while improving mid to high range horsepower. The low end torque itself should help with fuel economy (if driven with fuel economy in mind.)... I'd like to achieve 300 horsepower within that range. it's a goal. But I know I'm going to be happy with stock 215 versus my 160. I only came up with the 24# injectors thinking about the 94-95 cobra injectors and how they came factory with 260? Horsepower and how 19lb injectors might choke before 300horsepower

Do you have any recommendations? I see a lot of mustang 5.0's at 300 to the wheels using explorer heads, aftermarket headers, cams and port jobs and I'm only going for crank.

 

[Vogenitz69]

Bill, are you putting in the motor without rebuilding it and just changing the cam?

I am currently installing a V8 from a 98 Explorer into my Sport Trac but am having it rebuilt first. I have researched and do not see how to get 300 HP from this motor easily.

Originally rebuilding was the plan but I've had a shop look it over saying that it's looks great and I should just replace some gaskets just for maintenance sake.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

the reason why most stanger's get those types of numbers is that the computers are a lot more tuner friendly, and they also have better exhaust systems with way less restrictions on them.

 

[2000StreetRod]

injector size

For estimating purposes:

Injector size = (HP x BSFC) / (number of injectors x duty cycle)
BSFC = Brake Specific Fuel Consumption, typically .45 to .5 for NA
A safe duty cycle is 80%
(300 HP x .5)/(8 x .8) = 23.44 lb/hr

Horsepower limit = (Injector size x number of cylinders x duty cycle) / BSFC
The stock 19 lb/hr injectors are only good to 243 hp.

 

[Vogenitz69]

the reason why most stanger's get those types of numbers is that the computers are a lot more tuner friendly, and they also have better exhaust systems with way less restrictions on them.

My exhaust as planned: Torque Monster Headers, through stock Cats, through a di/do flowmaster 70 exiting before both rear tires. I was under the impression the 5.0 needed some back pressure (for torque) that's why I'm going flowmaster, and 70 series bc this is a sleeper

 

[Vogenitz69]

For estimating purposes:

Injector size = (HP x BSFC) / (number of injectors x duty cycle)
BSFC = Brake Specific Fuel Consumption, typically .45 to .5 for NA
A safe duty cycle is 80%
(300 HP x .5)/(8 x .8) = 23.44 lb/hr

Horsepower limit = (Injector size x number of cylinders x duty cycle) / BSFC
The stock 19 lb/hr injectors are only good to 243 hp.

So 24lb injectors will work, assuming I can get the rest of the motor up to par with 300Hp

 

[2000StreetRod]

injectors & tune

So 24lb injectors will work, assuming I can get the rest of the motor up to par with 300Hp

Yes, but you can't install the injectors without the tune or the engine will run rich.

 

[2000StreetRod]

cam specifications

I found the cam specifications on the internet:

Vendor Competition Cams
Product Line Competition Cams Xtreme Energy Camshafts
Cam Style Hydraulic roller tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range 1,300-5,300 RPM
Intake Duration 050 inch Lift 208
Exhaust Duration 050 inch Lift 216
Advertised Intake Duration 258
Advertised Exhaust Duration 266
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.533
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.544
Lobe Separation (degrees) 112
Grind Number FW XE258HR-12

I agree it looks like a fairly mild cam probably with a decent idle and modest performance increase from mid-range to high engine speeds. It might be good for a 15 to 25 bhp increase by itself. High flow heads would add more. You'd probably add a little with a larger throttle body.

 

[shucker1]

Watching with interest.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

My exhaust as planned: Torque Monster Headers, through stock Cats, through a di/do flowmaster 70 exiting before both rear tires. I was under the impression the 5.0 needed some back pressure (for torque) that's why I'm going flowmaster, and 70 series bc this is a sleeper

i hear what your saying. TMH's are the only header we can get without getting a set of custom built headers. they still, in some cases are not enough. when you look at most mustang headers, they are 1 5/8 to 1 3/4. TMH's are smaller then those.

 

[Dono]

http://www.socalhorsepower.com/foru...-Official-Quest-for-300rwhp-GT40P-head-thread!!!

Even reading the above thread, I'd have to wonder if the dyno's need calibrating.

You will see these guys using some fairly hot cam's and going for more peak horsepower. Your looking to retain low end torque (as you should in a heavy vehicle), and are still after 300 peak hp. This won't be an easy task.

A supercharger would give you what your looking for. Even at that, vroomzoomboom would have to chime in at what his numbers were with his M90 supercharger. The low end torque is crazy.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

thats what my truck did on the dyno at all ford nationals last summer. the mod list was long at that time, even longer now