PTU Problems

[KayGee]

My 2015 PIU has the Enhanced PTU cooler (recommended for EVOC training; continuous/extended track usage) option. Does anyone else have this on their PIU and if so, have you had any PTU issues?

That shouldn't be needed for "normal" driving. I thought it was a somewhat expensive option also, so it might be cheaper/better for someone to just forego it and pony up for an ESP that will cover the PTU for 100K-150K miles.

Plus, the cooler is integrated into the PTU, so it's not like you can just order the cooler after the fact - you'd need to order the PTU with cooler...

 

[peterk9]

That shouldn't be needed for "normal" driving. I thought it was a somewhat expensive option also, so it might be cheaper/better for someone to just forego it and pony up for an ESP that will cover the PTU for 100K-150K miles.

Plus, the cooler is integrated into the PTU, so it's not like you can just order the cooler after the fact - you'd need to order the PTU with cooler...

Found this on another site;

Police-Only Power Transfer Unit
Since the Power Transfer Unit operates all the time to spin the driveshaft to the rear, the PTU can get hot. On the police version, a number of steps are taken to assure reliability and durability in police use. First, a cooler is added to the front of the PTU housing. The police-only PTU housing has an integral water jacket connected with water lines that run to the bottom three coils of the radiator. The jacket receives engine coolant from the radiator to maintain the correct PTU oil temperature.
https://www.fordflex.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11899

Peter

 

[unixadm]

Here's my window sticker. The cooler in question was a $2,925 option.

 

[bkkrause]

Got my 2011 Exp 4x4 XLT in for a second opinion. PTU leaking on both sides. $1800.00 to fix. Thankfully the PTU did not blow up. Seriously, this is the only major repair I've had to do in the 75k miles. I bought it new. Now to figure out why the Terrain management system faults when I put it in park....I turn off and start up it up and all is well... Humph?

 

[KayGee]

Here's my window sticker. The cooler in question was a $2,925 option.

I thought I remembered that from your window sticker. For that kind of money, one would be far better off purchasing an ESP powertrain warranty. If I'm not mistaken, they could wait until 60K when the retail powertrain warranty runs out and then add another 100K+ of ESP powertrain for a lot less than $3K.

It always sucks when there are "known issues" with things, but there are only a few options:
1. acknowledge issues and not purchase
2. lease and return prior to warranty expiration
3. purchase vehicle/maintain it/reserve for emergencies
4. hedge their risk by purchasing an ESP.

Waiting around and hoping for a company/manufacturer to do the right thing isn't really an option...

 

[peterk9]

I thought I remembered that from your window sticker. For that kind of money, one would be far better off purchasing an ESP powertrain warranty. If I'm not mistaken, they could wait until 60K when the retail powertrain warranty runs out and then add another 100K+ of ESP powertrain for a lot less than $3K.

It always sucks when there are "known issues" with things, but there are only a few options:
1. acknowledge issues and not purchase
2. lease and return prior to warranty expiration
3. purchase vehicle/maintain it/reserve for emergencies
4. hedge their risk by purchasing an ESP.

Waiting around and hoping for a company/manufacturer to do the right thing isn't really an option...

I'm guessing the PIU's have the same factory warranty. If that is the case, if you wait until the OEM warranty runs out and then purchase the Ford ESP warranty then you will be buying a warranty on a 'used' vehicle and the cost would be much higher. If considering an ESP warranty, it is best to get it before the manufacturer's warranty expires. Also, keep in mind that any Ford ESP warranty taken out will start on the vehicle's 'In Service' date meaning a 100k warranty will only extend the factory warranty for 40k miles. I believe the only exception would be if you bought the 'used' or 'Pre Owned' vehicle warranty. I believe blwnsmoke would be able to confirm or correct that.

Peter

 

[KayGee]

I'm guessing the PIU's have the same factory warranty. If that is the case, if you wait until the OEM warranty runs out and then purchase the Ford ESP warranty then you will be buying a warranty on a 'used' vehicle and the cost would be much higher. If considering an ESP warranty, it is best to get it before the manufacturer's warranty expires. Also, keep in mind that any Ford ESP warranty taken out will start on the vehicle's 'In Service' date meaning a 100k warranty will only extend the factory warranty for 40k miles. I believe the only exception would be if you bought the 'used' or 'Pre Owned' vehicle warranty. I believe blwnsmoke would be able to confirm or correct that.

Peter

2015+ PIUs are supposed to come with 5/100K ESP powertrain care included.

I haven't looked into the costs of all ESPs, but the option I was comparing an ESP to was a +$3K PTU cooler factory option that still isn't going to guarantee no PTU issues. The better option is to buy an extended powertrain warranty.

I just took a quick look at the Zeigler ESP website. To add 5yr/75K $100 ded powertrain care coverage to a 2013 Explorer 4WD with 50K miles, would cost $1,530. It states that a vehicle inspection is required, so that should be factored in, but that would end up costing essentially the same as 1 PTU replacement... If one is within 41 months of their warranty start date, it looks like they could opt for 7 yrs/150K of powertrain care coverage for ~$1,800.

 

[Irishfred]

I thought I remembered that from your window sticker. For that kind of money, one would be far better off purchasing an ESP powertrain warranty. If I'm not mistaken, they could wait until 60K when the retail powertrain warranty runs out and then add another 100K+ of ESP powertrain for a lot less than $3K.

It always sucks when there are "known issues" with things, but there are only a few options:
1. acknowledge issues and not purchase
2. lease and return prior to warranty expiration
3. purchase vehicle/maintain it/reserve for emergencies
4. hedge their risk by purchasing an ESP.

Waiting around and hoping for a company/manufacturer to do the right thing isn't really an option...

You are absolutely correct. You have to be accountable and responsible in this day and age. There is no free lunch.


My advice to anyone about to purchase (not lease) a 4wd explorer is to do their homework regarding the transfer case/PTU. This is a nonservicable part that needs to be serviced by the wary consumer, in my opinion, unless Ford has changed their design.

It should be drained and filled every 20k miles (max), in my opinion. Find a mechanic that will do this job for you, if the Ford dealership says that it does not need to be serviced.

Specifically ask your technician about the PTU case when doing routine oil changes- and signs of boiling out/oil leaks.

Find an oil with a high temperature rating.

If you see heavy oil drops on your garage floor, then act immediately before the bearings lose lubrication and the PTU explodes. The oil is already boiling out of the unit, sticking to the undercarriage of your car, then dripping down on the floor. It will be thick. It will smell awful. You are on borrowed time, and may be too late already. Check youtube if you are curious about what happens if you let your guard down - it is well documented!

Why does this happen? Good luck on finding the answer on that one.

Rotate your tires every 7k miles, or you may strain this unit.

And I would change the transmission fluid at 60k miles.

Or you can just repair the parts as they fail, using the Ford fluid interval recommendations. One may expect to incur a total PTU repair with every tire change if one were to go this route, from my personal experience.

The above is just my opinion, of course. Good luck!

 

[Irishfred]

And always visit the forums that pertain to your car before you purchase!

 

[KayGee]

All good points for someone that is handy and does their own maintenance. If one can't do that and has to pay out of pocket over 100K miles of ownership, 5 PTU fluid changes will cost anywhere from $500 to more than $2,000, and a trans fluid flush @ 60K will probably cost another couple of hundred bucks. IMHO, that money would be better spent on an ESP powertrain warranty and not doing any of that maintenance as it isn't 'required maintenance'.

Regarding the last comment, that is a huge variable as to what may be available at an online forum. It can take some time for issues to become known enough for them to get posted online which may not help when buying new (unless you are getting near the end of a model cycle). If buying used a few years out, it is more likely that there will be some info online.

For me, known issues don't necessarily deter me from purchasing something, but they will influence what I may be willing to pay and how likely I am to buy an extended warranty vs. self insure...

 

[Irishfred]

All good points for someone that is handy and does their own maintenance. If one can't do that and has to pay out of pocket over 100K miles of ownership, 5 PTU fluid changes will cost anywhere from $500 to more than $2,000, and a trans fluid flush @ 60K will probably cost another couple of hundred bucks. IMHO, that money would be better spent on an ESP powertrain warranty and not doing any of that maintenance as it isn't 'required maintenance'.

Regarding the last comment, that is a huge variable as to what may be available at an online forum. It can take some time for issues to become known enough for them to get posted online which may not help when buying new (unless you are getting near the end of a model cycle). If buying used a few years out, it is more likely that there will be some info online.

For me, known issues don't necessarily deter me from purchasing something, but they will influence what I may be willing to pay and how likely I am to buy an extended warranty vs. self insure...

I agree - but I keep my cars for the long haul! Having an ESP would only help during the covered interval.

That PTU is a ticking timebomb if ignored...

 

[KayGee]

I kind of let my vehicles tell me how long they want to hang around. On average, I keep most vehicles for 7-15 years, but I have had a few that had their issues and were let go of within 3-5 years.

I tend to do a lot of repairs myself, including heavy repairs like engine/trans R&R, so I don't personally see a PTU as a ticking time bomb. To me, its basically a weekends worth of work replacing a <$700 part. Not something I look forward to doing or want to do, but stuff happens sometimes...

I'm still struggling with how much you spend on PM for the PTU and what it really gets you. At what mileage and under what conditions is an average Explorer PTU failing? What is the life expectancy of the PTU supposed to be? From what I've seen posted, It seems like the PTU may be a bit underspec'd, have too small a fluid capacity, and be subjected to too much heat. Then there's the water pump and other issues which might make owning a 5G Explorer for the long haul (i.e. out of warranty) a bit of a dicey proposition anyway.

 

[whimsey]

For our 2017 2.3 EB 4 WD XLT the dealer charged $88 labor and $22 for the Motorcraft 75W-140 differential fluid to change the PTU fluid. For $110 It's worth it to me to maintain the fluid in the PTU to hopefully ensure a long(er) life. We have the 7 yr/125,000 mi Ford Premium ESP but we try to keep our vehicles at least 15 yrs/200,000 miles. If reasonable maintenance costs can keep a part alive I'd rather do that then have the dealer replace that part. Especially if it's known to fail because of poor design but can be made to last if maintained more than Ford originally spec'd.

Whimsey

 

[blwnsmoke]

I kind of let my vehicles tell me how long they want to hang around. On average, I keep most vehicles for 7-15 years, but I have had a few that had their issues and were let go of within 3-5 years.

I tend to do a lot of repairs myself, including heavy repairs like engine/trans R&R, so I don't personally see a PTU as a ticking time bomb. To me, its basically a weekends worth of work replacing a <$700 part. Not something I look forward to doing or want to do, but stuff happens sometimes...

I'm still struggling with how much you spend on PM for the PTU and what it really gets you. At what mileage and under what conditions is an average Explorer PTU failing? What is the life expectancy of the PTU supposed to be? From what I've seen posted, It seems like the PTU may be a bit underspec'd, have too small a fluid capacity, and be subjected to too much heat. Then there's the water pump and other issues which might make owning a 5G Explorer for the long haul (i.e. out of warranty) a bit of a dicey proposition anyway.

The PTU has been redesigned twice. The new PTUs are 8x more durable then the original design. I'm not sure if they are backwards compatible.. meaning on my 2011 if the newest build of it will work or not. There have been a lot less failures on the newer vehicles. Now granted that could be because they are newer but they should have less issues. Then again, I have a 2011 with original fluid that has 115,000 miles and haven't had any issues. So not all will go boom.

 

[Odrapnew]

For our 2017 2.3 EB 4 WD XLT the dealer charged $88 labor and $22 for the Motorcraft 75W-140 differential fluid to change the PTU fluid. For $110 It's worth it to me to maintain the fluid in the PTU to hopefully ensure a long(er) life. We have the 7 yr/125,000 mi Ford Premium ESP but we try to keep our vehicles at least 15 yrs/200,000 miles. If reasonable maintenance costs can keep a part alive I'd rather do that then have the dealer replace that part. Especially if it's known to fail because of poor design but can be made to last if maintained more than Ford originally spec'd.

Whimsey

That's a hell of a deal. If my dealer was that cheap, I would have just had them do it.

 

[KayGee]

For our 2017 2.3 EB 4 WD XLT the dealer charged $88 labor and $22 for the Motorcraft 75W-140 differential fluid to change the PTU fluid. For $110 It's worth it to me to maintain the fluid in the PTU to hopefully ensure a long(er) life. We have the 7 yr/125,000 mi Ford Premium ESP but we try to keep our vehicles at least 15 yrs/200,000 miles. If reasonable maintenance costs can keep a part alive I'd rather do that then have the dealer replace that part. Especially if it's known to fail because of poor design but can be made to last if maintained more than Ford originally spec'd.

Whimsey

So, if you change PTU fluid every 20K miles @$110 per, that's $660 to get you to 120K miles. My concern would be that all you may do is extend the life of the PTU to just beyond the warranty and then you would have spent several grand for a warranty, $660 for PTU maintenance, and might still need a PTU anyway. Remember , the PTU itself only costs ~$6-700. No way to know for sure, but if you get your money's worth out of the extended warranty for other stuff, maybe not a big deal. If your vehicle is relatively trouble free up to 100-125K, I think the extended warranty and PTU maintenance spend may have been better saved for a large repair. Unfortunately, there's no way to know and we all have to assess our own risk levels.

Like I said, if one does their own maintenance and repairs, there are definite savings to be had to cover a large repair in the future. For those that have to pay someone else to do maintenance and repairs, it is a toss up as they are going to spend money on a warranty, deductible, and a lot of maintenance, and may still have to pay for repairs out of pocket after all warranties expire. As more reports come out over the next few years on PTU's and any other issues, maybe there will be some data points which are always helpful.

 

[KayGee]

The PTU has been redesigned twice. The new PTUs are 8x more durable then the original design. I'm not sure if they are backwards compatible.. meaning on my 2011 if the newest build of it will work or not. There have been a lot less failures on the newer vehicles. Now granted that could be because they are newer but they should have less issues. Then again, I have a 2011 with original fluid that has 115,000 miles and haven't had any issues. So not all will go boom.

Are these the redesigns you are talking about?

Power Takeoff Units
The power takeoff unit (PTU) has been a service concern on some PI Utilities. There may be an excessive oil smell when driving, the AWD may not work properly, or the PTU housing may be cracked, leaking or noisy. The cause of the PTU damage is the excessive torque loading of the idler gear, which causes the bearing to walk (move) into the housing.
In January 2014, a Full Face Thrust Washer, FFTW, was introduced. This new washer was designed to prevent the idler bearing from walking into the aluminum case.
In October 2015, a second change was made, in this case a loose-fit idler bearing. In dynamometer tests, this bearing design change showed a twice life improvement over the FFTW design.
In June 2016, a third change was made. In this case, a new bearing design, one without drawn cups, was installed. This eliminated the walk mode of damage. Dyno testing shows a three to four times improvement over the FFTW design. For both the PI Utility and PI Sedan, the PTU is covered under the limited powertrain warranty. All Ford Police Interceptors come standard with a five-year/100,000-mile Extended Service Plan for the powertrain.

 

[Irishfred]

Does the new "redesign" have a simple drain plug?

 

[ExPlat]

Does the new "redesign" have a simple drain plug?

Yes, with 'anti-tamper' paint on it. These are not meant to be serviced except under certain conditions.

From the Owners Manual: The Power Transfer Unit (PTU) in your vehicle does not require any normal scheduled maintenance. The system is electronically monitored and notifies the driver of required service by displaying a message in the information display. The PTU lube will be more likely to require a fluid change if the vehicle has experienced extended periods of extreme/severe duty cycle driving. Do not check or change the PTU lubricant unless the unit has been submerged in water, shows signs of leakage or a message indicating required service is displayed. Contact your authorized dealer for service and to reset the PTU lube life monitor.

 

[peterk9]

Thanks for that ExPlat. I wasn't aware that there were vehicle messages for that.
Change 4WD Transfer Unit Lube and
4WD Power Transfer Unit Lube Set to New

Peter