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Creative ignition system

Discussion in 'Under the Hood' started by custexplorer, July 20, 2009.

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    1. custexplorer

      custexplorer Active Member

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      I am wanting to build a push button ignition system, where a key isn't required. I have keyless entry so this would work great. My idea is, get into the car via keyless entry, and then, without a key just push a button to start up the car. This seems like it would be the worst security measure ever, but what if I put a well hidden (or multiple well hidden) switch that must be on for the push button to be functional? This seems Like a cheap project, and would be really fun. I am very inexperienced with wiring, but it seems to me like the security switch would just be wired on the way to the push button (easy enough). Can anyone help me with the wiring for this project?


      Mods if this is in the wrong section feel free to move it.
       
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    3. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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    4. custexplorer

      custexplorer Active Member

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      Ok so [​IMG]?

      Where are the wires in the diagram even located?

      And last question, I don't want a dummy key hole there, or a locked steering column, so could I remove that and have the steering column always unlocked?

      Ok I've confused myself. Would doing what is pictured even turn on the engine or just the power? I want to push the putton and the engine start, along with all of the electronics.
       
      Last edited: July 20, 2009
    5. Mbrooks420

      Mbrooks420 High Voltage. Elite Explorer

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      Simply pressing a button, and having the motor start is a big deal. There would be much involved. You would have to flip a switch to turn the ignition on, and then you would have a separate momentary push button to turn over the starter motor. Then when leaving you would have to flip the switch to turn off the ignition. You'll also have to have a key box hidden to transmit the PATS key, or get a custom chip/tune to delete the PATS.
       
    6. custexplorer

      custexplorer Active Member

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      So could I have a small panel with a push button starter and a switch for the ignition, and a switch for the electronics, with a kill switch for each of them under the seat or in the console? to turn off the car I could turn off both kill switches and the electronics switch.

      Oh ok I understand the pats key thing. Is there a steering lock to worry about or could I just do what I stated above and hide a key?
       
    7. Mbrooks420

      Mbrooks420 High Voltage. Elite Explorer

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      The switch that runs the starter would only be active when pressed. Then you'd have a switch that simulated the key on position. turn the key on switch and press the starter button until the truck starts. To shut off turn off the key on switch. PATS is the chip inside your key that prevents the truck from being hotwired. If the truck doesn't sense the signal from the key you won't get any ignition.
       
    8. custexplorer

      custexplorer Active Member

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      So like I hide the key to disable the pats setup. Then I rerun the wire, away from the key slot, and to a setup with a switch and a button. I flip the switch and hold the button to start the car. Would that turn on the car's power also or would I need another switch?

      After I get this setup, I put a kill switch in the location of my choice and I'm good to go?
       
    9. custexplorer

      custexplorer Active Member

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      Anyone know if that would work?
       
    10. Mbrooks420

      Mbrooks420 High Voltage. Elite Explorer

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      They sell key boxes that transmit the key signal to fool a remote start into thinking there is a PATS key present. I don't think there is just a wire to reroute. I suppose if you were going to go entirely without a key cylinder whatever in there picks up the signal could be moved. The key on switch would turn everything on in the car just exactly as inserting a key and turning it to the on position.
       
    11. custexplorer

      custexplorer Active Member

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      I am so confused. To take care of pats i can hide a key in the car. As for the button, I'd like a hidden kill switch, a ignition switch, and an ignition button. Can anyone give me specific instructions on how to do that?
       
    12. custexplorer

      custexplorer Active Member

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      Ok, i talked to inh for a while and got this:

      my ignition, starter, and accessory cables all wired to separate relays and a switch, and then to the 12v.

      So would I just run, lets say on the ignition one, do it like the pic at the bottom?

      I'll wire it up like that, then what to I do about the steering lock? Can it be removed on a third gen??


      [​IMG]
       
      Last edited: July 20, 2009
    13. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

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      That would cover the ignition, but you'd still need something to trigger the starter. Think of it like this, have you ever been in a fire truck? There's two switches. One is IGNITION, the other is START. Turning the ignition on would be like turning the key to "RUN", it will power everything up, but won't trigger the starter motor. The second switch is what you need to trigger the starter. So, you get in, flip IGNITION to on, and then hold START long enough to get it to turn over. Just like the key goes back to RUN after starting the car.

      The cutoff switch wouldn't be nearly as complicated, all you'd need to do is have a small switch that, when off, doesn't supply the ignition switch with any power. Just like the brown wire mod, if you're using a relay for the ignition (which you should), the voltage running to the switch itself is so small that any switch would be able to serve as just a break in the system. You could even wire it up with multiple switches. Have any girls you want to impress? Have 5 switches on the ceiling console, 3 kill switches, ignition switch, and starter switch, it'll seem like you're powering up a nuclear sub, lol. **Flip, flip, flip, flip, push, VROOM**

      Hope this helps some....
       
    14. BrianDye

      BrianDye I'll have another...

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      Turning the key ON turns everything in the car on, allowing the engine to run too. Turning the key more, turns the starter to start the engine.


      The SWITCH would replace turning the key ON, then the start BUTTON would replace having to turn the key more to start the engine, then to turn it off, youd just turn the switch off.


      What I would do it wire it all up, switch, and button, then run a KEYED switch (goto autozone, get another "ignition", youll see them right with all the switches, theyre like ~15$, mount that in the glovebox, center console, etc and use that as your hidden switch, and only take the key out of that, like at night or something.

      Ive also been planning on doing this, just havent got the money yet, even though it would only be about 20$, as I dont have PATS.
       
    15. custexplorer

      custexplorer Active Member

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      Im running 5 switches for the ignition, with some of them facing backwards, so unless they are flipped in a certain combo, it won't start.
       
    16. BrianDye

      BrianDye I'll have another...

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      FIVE!?!?:eek:


      :popcorn:
       
    17. custexplorer

      custexplorer Active Member

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      that gives 32 possible combos. Not too bad.
       
    18. Mbrooks420

      Mbrooks420 High Voltage. Elite Explorer

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      The 5 switch combo deal isn't the best idea. Anyone with a test light and a minute or 2 minutes could easily undo it. The glove box keyed ignition switch is a much better idea. That way a mechanic can move your car into the bay without you trying to explain that switch 1 is up switches 2 and 3 are down, 4 is up and 5 is down.
       
    19. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

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      Here's an idea, if the sensor can sense the key if it's in the glovebox, shouldn't it be able to sense the key if it's in your pocket? Depending on where the sensor is, it might even be closer, and less metal to block the signal, just a little bit of fabric and plastic dash, right?

      My friend has a Nissan Altima Coupe (he's trying to slowly introduce me to the whole "Import" scene, lol), but that has pushbutton start. The car will sense the key in your pocket, so you just pull on the door handle, no need to push the keyfob or anything, and then you just push the brake in and push the button, it will turn the ignition on and start the car. When he's done driving, pushing the button again will turn everything off.

      If the sensor will sense the key in your pocket, not only will it be a cool mod, but it will be JUST as safe as the regular keyed ignition, right? You won't need a hidden kill switch, or a switch combo or whatever, just IGNITION and START switches/buttons!

      Now you've got me thinking about doing this, lol....

      EDIT: Just re-read BrianDye's post, he wasn't talking about the key in the glovebox, he was talking about a keyed kill switch.....to me, that just seems like even more work.....we need to find out the range of the PATS sensor....
       
      Last edited: July 21, 2009
    20. BrianDye

      BrianDye I'll have another...

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      Pats is not like a "if the key is within 10') its RIGHT in the ignition, it wont detect the key unless its right there; that would be an amazing mod, but far too complicated for an explorer; I think it would be easier to drop a semi's engine into my 92, then do all that.

      As for the keyed kill switch, im basically saying, if your just running to get groceries, or to a friends, leave the key in; pretend like its not there, but like if your not parking in a garage at night or going to the ghetto, then take it out :p:


      I JUST THOUGHT OF ANOTHER GREAT IDEA.
      Instead of having a kill switch, have a FOOT switch that has to be depressed for the starter button to work, like the old ford trucks that have the bright light switch like on the floor....

      But yea having 5 switches is overkill i think, like he said, imagine if you have to take it to a shop or something.
      "Okay let me get the keys from you and come back tomorrow and she'll be all ready"
      "Um i dont have a key, theres 5 switches, and a button"
      "Say what!?"
      "Switch one is up, along with switch two, however switch 3 and 5 are down, yet switch 4 faces the passenger window"
      "Sorry buddy were closed"
       
    21. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

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      What would make it so hard to do? Might be able to get a signal amplifier or something?
       
    22. Mbrooks420

      Mbrooks420 High Voltage. Elite Explorer

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      Where do you buy a signal amplifier?
       
    23. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

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      I wouldn't even begin to know, to tell you the truth. I'll have to research the PATS system more, but if it can sense it from an inch away, what's to stop it from sensing it two feet away? The technology's out there obviously, it just depends on how expensive and how much of a PITA it would be to do it...if it wouldn't take all that much, I'd be more than willing to do it to have a ignition system that's fairly unique for Explorers....
       
    24. custexplorer

      custexplorer Active Member

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      You could make one pretty easily I'm sure.
       
    25. inh

      inh Well-Known Member

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      5 kill switches could just be left in thier correct positions, and the mechanic could start the truck normally. Before you park the car at night, scramble thier positions.

      The keyed switch is a good idea too, but unless you have somewhere secure to mount it, it wouldnt take anything for someone to get behind it and pull the wires and connect them ;)

      Multiple hidden kill switches is best, and not just for the ignition. Fuel pump, coil, starter solenoid, etc. They can all be used =] But thats for another post.

      As for the foot switch, that is a great idea. You want your kill switches to be somewhere you can get to them without it looking like you're flipping kill switches. Someone that wants your truck will watch you to see where the switches are..

      Best one I ever saw was a small black rocker switch, mounted in the side of the dead pedal on the left of the drivers footwell. Flip it with your foot, and NO ONE would know it was there. ;)

      custexplorer, ill have to check your diagram later, unless you want to add it to an attachement to a post. I cant see photobucket at work =[
       
    26. Doubt Incarnate

      Doubt Incarnate Active Member

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      doesnt the pcm get a signal from the "start" postion on the keyed cylinder? I was under the impression that other things took place aside from the starter turning the motor over to get the thing going, Spark retard for one, you'd have to make sure the pcm knows that "start" is happening otherwise its might not compensate for a cold start.
       

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