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M90 rebuild (rudy)

Discussion in 'Need for Speed!' started by jd4242, March 30, 2013.

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    1. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      I do have ports pre blower..how would i test this??

      This m90 im pretty sure originally came with like a 58mm tb

      Injectors should definitely be good,i wasnt anywhere near maxing them out on e50 last tune..
       
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    3. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      Attach a vacuum gauge to a pre blower port with nothing else on it and watch vacuum at WOT through the entire rpm range.
      The lower the vacuum the better.
       
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    4. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      I have 3 ports pre blower,one runs my break booster and the other 2 are capped..preety sure i have a spare vacuum/boost gauge also,just need to find it
       
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    5. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Excellent, John said it better than I did. You want a mild vacuum on the inlet side, not a huge vacuum that shows how hard the blower is sucking.

      I've only glanced at the later big oval throttle bodies. Every time I do I see the $600 stuff and turn away. I know I will need something like them, but I'm way too far away to have to pick one yet.

      The free HP isn't free, we all know that. It costs tons for everything in the engine system, and the little stuff outside the engine can be more than the internals. The fuel system and inlet, exhaust etc, it's often an after thought or people spend less on it, skimp, skip etc. The suspension and brakes are ... etc. You know.
       
    6. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      I thought I would mention this also,
      I have 2 computer programs and one is called Dyno Sym5 and the other Drag Sym5.
      They are both by Comp Cams.
      One of these two programs(Dyno Sym5) has 1.5 and 3 inches vacuum on a drop down menu for pressure drop.
      It appears as though they say to use 1.5 for 4 barrel and fuel injection, and 3 for two barrel carbs.
      So I am thinking that it may be somewhat normal to have 1.5 inches pressure difference from atmospheric to intake manifold or in other words 1.5 inches of vacuum presupercharger.
      This is all my thinking so I may be way off.

      I just read another thing on the internet last week that mentioned someone down to 1.33 in HG after going to larger throttle body.
      I don't know for sure but it is interesting.
       
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    7. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      Ill look into trying to rig something up this weekend..my new pulley will be here so going to try and mill that down also..
       
    8. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      Got the pulley and milled it down..it fit and gave me the perfect tension on the belt now also..

      My power steering pulley is still slightly misaligned. .the crank is chewing my very outside rib up..going to try and space it back some this weekend..

      I looked for my spare boost/vacuum gauge and cant find it so ill have to see if i can pick one up cheap somewhere to test my intake pipe size,got me interested now...

      20171124_085649.jpg 20171124_085640.jpg
       
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    9. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      I love those pulleys. I'll have to bend your ear when I get to doing the 8-rib belt etc. I only have the pulleys for the crank, PS, AC, and alternator if that's the right size. I'd like a good looking blower pulley unlike the plain type KB uses, and of course the idler pulleys.
       
    10. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      Unfortunately i didnt get time to mess with the truck at all this past weekend..

      But tomorrow we are gonna try to dyno tune this thing again! ! Hopefully it goes good this time...WISH ME LUCK!! 3rd time is the charm right...lol
       
      Last edited: November 27, 2017
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    11. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Fingers crossed, I hope it flies, on the dyno.:salute:
       
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    12. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      Hour before dyno my BRAND NEW pump stops working..trying to get the one i just pulled out back in and make my dyno!!
      20171128_133244.jpg
       
    13. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      No go for tune AGAIN...fuel pump is too small..

      I switched the 340 that stopped working back to the 310..he thinks even the 340 would've been too small..

      Fuel pressure does rise as boost does but right at about 14lbs it stops and drops for about 74psi to 44psi (base 60)and slowly continues to drop..we've shut it down right there..

      We adjusted the tune some and switched it back to E50..im going to try the new DW 415 lph pump.he wants me to run a relay with a 10g wire directly from the battery activated by old pump wire..if that doesnt solve it going to try a ""boost a pump"" and turn the voltage up..and if that dont work im going to have to go to a external pump..

      Mann what a day..sooo over this truck
       
      Last edited: November 28, 2017
    14. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      Hope the new pump install goes well!
      That sure is a lot of fuel you need, that spells power!
       
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    15. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Wow. I'm super surprised you ran out of pump.
      Crazy. I hope your tuner was ok with the whole thing.

      The selfish side of me tells me you are about to try out a new style pump for us.
       
    16. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      The new DW 415lph ""SHOULD"" do it,its a ""direct replacement""..if not i can boost it to think 17v or higher with a boost a pump and direct wire....plus going back to E50 saves me about 15% compare to E85..

      I want to try this out before i start dropn loads on concept pump designs...


      And yea think tuner felt my pain today..he didnt charge me anything this time..thank god!!
       
      Last edited: November 28, 2017
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    17. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      Last edited: November 28, 2017
    18. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      I like that 400 pump, but I don't think it's needed if the lines were big enough, plus adequate current. That size could support 600hp most likely, and I think the 255 is adequate for 400hp or so.

      I'm sure your tuner was asking you to run another power wire to be sure the pump gets enough current. He is right, you want a single power wire running from the battery source point(PDB etc), to the pump relay, and to the pump. As the pump size goes up, the wiring has to carry more current.

      You can use more wires also, a second power wire(path)running parallel to the first. I'll run two wires that can each support one 255 pump. Make sure the ground wires(path) are upgraded too.
       
    19. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      -6an should support 500-600hp..
      A 255lph pump on ethanol is in the 280-320hp range

      The 340lph i took out ""might"" have done it but would be maxed out,that is if its getting enough current..

      We are not 100% sure on the current or voltage situation so that might be why the 310lph pump wasnt keeping up on e85...with proper voltage and on e50 im sure it probably wouldve been fine..

      I do know the 310lph pump with current wiring on e50 at 12lbs was fine..i ran that for about 3 years..only when i increased boost and went to e85 has it become a problem. .

      But yes the wiring is getting upgraded and that 415lph pump is getting installed..
       
      Last edited: November 28, 2017
    20. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      I'll bow out to who's telling you pump potentials, and line sizes. I've read much different power limits for a 255 pump and 6AN line. Peace, make it work.
       
    21. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Don, as JD stated, its the e85. I think what you are saying is correct for gas with little to no ethanol.
      e85 looks like its fantastic, but it does take quite a bit more of it to get the same energy.

      As JD is teaching us, there are some down sides to e85 that you need to set your self up for stuff like high flow fuel pump, bigger injectors, and a fuel system that won't corrode, melt. I just keep learning.

      Obviously a bigger feed pipe like AN8 wouldn't hurt anything but the wallet. lol.
       
    22. Centaurus5.0

      Centaurus5.0 Elite 5.0L Fiddler

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    23. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      If the pump and wiring dont work then it leaves nothing but the line..

      Yes -8an wouldnt hurt anything but the outlet of the pump is only 3/8"..the line in the sender that the pump attaches to is only 3/8" and the hole going into my fuel rail is probably smaller than 3/8"..the hole in the rail that the feed line attaches to maybe my main restriction..this definitely will have to be addressed if going to bigger line...

      But to change my feed line to -8an would mean 6 new fittings, new filter and new line..AND the supercharger has to come off to remove the line that attaches to the rail..not a easy or cheap job at..

      Pump and wiring i can have done in about a hour for about $250...

      Im definitely going to take the easier cheaper route for now..I've seen and been told -6an should support my goals but pump and voltage has always been questionable
       
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    24. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      Thats why I've gone back to E50 to lower that number..

      E50 has supported over 700rwhp,its about equivalent to 100 octane but has the added benefit of ethanol. .octane isnt linear so it doesnt really begine to drastically drop off till lower than E50..

      Only reason i went to e85 is because i was concerned about IAC temps but the new intercooler i built is working pretty good so i dont need the added benefits of the raw amount of extra fuel that e85 has over e50..which is about the only benefit other than a couple points of octane
       
      Last edited: November 28, 2017
    25. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      I see I didn't account enough for the E85 or E50 fuel. I was thinking it'd take maybe 20% more fuel/pump, but it looks like that may be nearing 50% depending on which fuel. So the power rating comes down similarly.

      I hope that bigger pump does it, because I know the lines would be a pain to do again, plus the costs.
       
    26. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      Keep in mind this is on ethanol and on boosted apps...you need to look at the flow rates at about 70-80psi plus...pressure regulator is a 1:1 so if base is 60 psi and your pushing 15lbs of boost your fuel pressure should be about 90psi......a typical 255lph pump on e85 at 80psi @13v is flowing much lower..a -6an line is gonna flow whatever its going to flow no matter whats flowing through it..

      Here is a graph of a 255 pump,notice the flow at about 80psi..your down to 171Lph on e85 wont support 400+ hp
      TRE340Flow.jpg
       
      Last edited: November 28, 2017

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