MFT version 2.11

[GTMD]

Wow, I know you are a supporter of MFT and Ford, so I understand you must really be frustrated. Having said that, the arguement you describe feels more like frustration.

First, I'm in the camp that this update (2.11) was not a silver bullet, would not solve every issue that has occured, and no one would every have another MFT issue after 2.11. I think Ford took a list of issues and picked the top 10 or so and worked hard to make MFT better and more stable.

I read your statements and summarize by saying 2 things didn't work for you. First you plugged crap into MFT, it crashed and you think MFT should never crash, no matter what crap you plug into it. 2nd, you had a service (text messaging that never worked at least for you) and you messed with MFT enough that it became unstable.

Ford should never had advertised features like text messaging, if it only works on 5-10% of the phones they tested. Having called it a feature, people expect it to work and it doesn't for a vast majority of the smart phones (my blackberry 9700 as an example). Ford should get heat for a service that doesn't work for most people. But if the feature doesn't work with only a bit of configuration, then you must understand the system will become unstable/crash if you keep pushing buttons.

Plugging crap into your MFT and crashing it shouldn't suprise anyone.

I agree with you 100%.Maybe the lemon law should apply to home pc's.Constant updates,locksup when you give the wrong commands or add the wrong device.The biggest problem with MFT and SYNC seem to be ORGANIC ERROR!

 

[TennesseeTider]

I guess I should not listen to Sirius radio or try to use the factory navigation system either. MINE CRASHES WITH NO PHONE OR NO USB DEVICE CONNECTED!

I guess climate controls and phone connectivity are just conveniences.

The organic failure here resides in Michigan.

 

[GTMD]

I guess I should not listen to Sirius radio or try to use the factory navigation system either. MINE CRASHES WITH NO PHONE OR NO USB DEVICE CONNECTED!

I guess climate controls and phone connectivity are just conveniences.

The organic failure here resides in Michigan.

You may be one with ligit problems.Could be hardware and not software.Have you sent a PM to Corey or one of the other service repts?They will help to resolve your issues.

I do not doubt,out of thousnds of vehicles with MFT and SYNC,that there are not some with real issues.The problem seems to be that some expect to much from the system and create their own problem.I, myself, have locked up our system.Not letting the system load on powerup or fat fingering will do the job.I have done the same on many pc's over the years.New tech is never flawless.

 

[RandyH2]

I did find an easy way to cause MFT problems--- hurry. The last time I was in a rush to get somewhere I got in the car, started it, put it in reverse all very quickly. The system froze up completely with no functions working at all, no voice, no stereo, nothing.

So- if you can get in the habit of starting the car and letting it sit for a few moments before using anything, you may find your problems occur less often. Maybe not, but it does work for me. I don't like it, but it works.

 

[jrmexplorer]

I agree with you 100%.Maybe the lemon law should apply to home pc's.Constant updates,locksup when you give the wrong commands or add the wrong device.The biggest problem with MFT and SYNC seem to be ORGANIC ERROR!

I don't know what PC O/S you run, but my home pc almost never locks up and certainly doesn't lockup when I plug in an ipod regardless of the version on it.

Moreover, I can add and delete a device all day and it doesn't crash the system and cause it to be unresponsive.


I think you're kidding yourself if you think that the MFT issues are all user error and that somehow you've managed to figure out the secret sauce to using MFT error free, when so many other users have issues. More than likely, you're combination of external devices just happens to play nice with the system (for now).

I've learned through these forums and my own experiences with this system that just because you aren't experiencing any problems at the moment doesn't mean that you wont eventually (because you will - this thing has a ton of memory leaks which will eventually get you), or that others aren't having legitimate issues. I usually don't have issues, but when I modified my usage patterns a tiny bit - BAM - problems.

I will grant you that some users are doing things MFT clearly wasn't designed to handle (6k contacts for instance on one user's phone), but most of the complaints I've seen on this forum boil down to an MFT failure.

I'm sorry, but its a failure if an external device can reboot MFT. I know that the problem originated with an out of date software on an Apple product, but the fact that MFT is not robust enough to simply ignore the faulty input is poor at best and indicates to me a lack of input validation (which they teach you at computer programming 101).

-J

 

[GTMD]

I don't know what PC O/S you run, but my home pc almost never locks up and certainly doesn't lockup when I plug in an ipod regardless of the version on it.

Moreover, I can add and delete a device all day and it doesn't crash the system and cause it to be unresponsive.


I think you're kidding yourself if you think that the MFT issues are all user error and that somehow you've managed to figure out the secret sauce to using MFT error free, when so many other users have issues. More than likely, you're combination of external devices just happens to play nice with the system (for now).

I've learned through these forums and my own experiences with this system that just because you aren't experiencing any problems at the moment doesn't mean that you wont eventually (because you will - this thing has a ton of memory leaks which will eventually get you), or that others aren't having legitimate issues. I usually don't have issues, but when I modified my usage patterns a tiny bit - BAM - problems.

I will grant you that some users are doing things MFT clearly wasn't designed to handle (6k contacts for instance on one user's phone), but most of the complaints I've seen on this forum boil down to an MFT failure.

I'm sorry, but its a failure if an external device can reboot MFT. I know that the problem originated with an out of date software on an Apple product, but the fact that MFT is not robust enough to simply ignore the faulty input is poor at best and indicates to me a lack of input validation (which they teach you at computer programming 101).

-J

Our Explorer was delivered 3/3 and we did update to 2.8.A couple of times the phone did not pair,no biggy.The ipod failed to attach before,again no biggy.Overall the system has preformed well. The system has prefomed maintenance on two occasions,still not an issue.
You did mention"almost never locks up". All systems that I have delt with over the years glitch once in a while,that includes the 1st dos based Tandy I had in the 80'sI have dealt with pc's, progammable control,cnc control,host systems and software for over 30 yrs.There are glitches.

 

[Lucille]

As to the iPod, why should an older software crash the Sync system? I can understand not working with it - (maybe an unsupported device error or something), but crashing it? That suggests to me that input validation is severely lacking in the software. Proper design of software components is to check every message passed from an external source to ensure it is in the proper form and format. If it is out of format, then it is rejected with no harm to the system.

When I first got my new Explorer, my older video iPod would not function with the car's system. BUT, it did NOT crash the system at all.
I wrote about my problem on this forum, and someone suggested I update my iPod. I did, and it now it works fine.

 

[GTMD]

when i first got my new explorer, my older video ipod would not function with the car's system. But, it did not crash the system at all.
I wrote about my problem on this forum, and someone suggested i update my ipod. I did, and it now it works fine.

+1

 

[w1kedz]

I agree with you 100%.Maybe the lemon law should apply to home pc's.Constant updates,locksup when you give the wrong commands or add the wrong device.The biggest problem with MFT and SYNC seem to be ORGANIC ERROR!

This comment makes no sense.

A Home PC is shipped in a working state. If it doesn't work when you get it then you send it back and get a new one. With a PC I own the hardware and software and can modify it how I please, I can also format and restore to factory condition without the need of taking it to a "certified dealer".

You're comparing Apple's to Oranges. If FORD wants to treat this like any other PC then they need to open the platform up, allow independent developers to create their own UI's and applications to run on it. They also need to distribute the full ROM for reinstallation/restore to factory state without the need to take it to a dealer. If this was treated as a Home PC by Ford then your comment would make sense, but this is treated as an in vehicle stereo system, which by every definition falls under Lemon Law specifications. On top of that many of these problems affect the climate controls, gauges, warnings, etc. When the thing blacks out the gauge clusters go blank, the stereo shuts off, the navigation stops, the climate controls are unusable.

This should work as advertised, or reasonable communications should be made with the customers regarding where exactly engineering is with solving the problem. FORD keeping tight lipped about exactly what it knows, doesn't know, or is working on is hurting them. If I was given a list of known issues, and estimated timeframes for fixes on each of the issues, I wouldn't complain about my nonworking system. As it is now it is rebooting on it's own WHILE I'M DRIVING at least twice a week. This is unacceptable for closed system. If your iPhone locked up and reboot on it's own constantly, taking up to 2 minutes to completely do so, and you were a completely stock consumer that hadn't jailbroken or modified the device in anyway, you'd take it back for a refund.

 

[jrmexplorer]

Our Explorer was delivered 3/3 and we did update to 2.8.A couple of times the phone did not pair,no biggy.The ipod failed to attach before,again no biggy.Overall the system has preformed well. The system has prefomed maintenance on two occasions,still not an issue.
You did mention"almost never locks up". All systems that I have delt with over the years glitch once in a while,that includes the 1st dos based Tandy I had in the 80'sI have dealt with pc's, progammable control,cnc control,host systems and software for over 30 yrs.There are glitches.

No question there are going to be glitches. I never said that I expected MFT to be perfect.

What I have to deal with on a daily basis with MFT is fine. I like the system.

I'm just troubled by how easy it is to have problems with it. It's not stable. I've been programming computers for 25 years and most troubling of all is that the symptoms of the glitches indicate poor memory management and poor input validation. This to me indicates poor software quality, and while I don't have many issues so long as I don't try and do anything fancy (you know, like pair and unpair my phone more than two times), I don't have much confidence long term.

I'll give you an example. The first time I tried to use voice commands to find a destination on the built in Nav system, I did a find for a POI, which happened to be Home Depot. The Nav system worked well and found the Home Depot. The problem is that EVERY TIME AFTER that (no matter how many POIs I would find), when I tried to enter a POI name, the MFT screen would come up and the name filled in would be "Home Depot." Now after I said my poi name the Home Depot would be replaced by whatever I had asked for. It didn't matter how many subsequent POI names I put in, it would always default to Home Depot in the name box. No big deal - nothing to be worried about right?

Sometimes its not the bug itself that is the issue, but what it signifies. To me this hints that memory management is poor - that "Home Depot" is rattling around in there and was never properly deleted. Over time, this can eat up precious system memory, ultimately slowing down performance. How many other old entries are just "hanging out" in there? (And no, Home Depot wasn't in my recently found or favorite destinations). My diagnosis could be wrong on this (as I don't know the internals of how this thing is coded), but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence. There are numerous other examples (such as system instability after pairing and unpairing a phone more than once or twice) that I cannot think of at the moment that also point to poor memory management.

I've been around computers and software long enough to know glitchy software from solid software, and this my friend is not solid software.

 

[IamJAd]

This comment makes no sense.

A Home PC is shipped in a working state. If it doesn't work when you get it then you send it back and get a new one. With a PC I own the hardware and software and can modify it how I please, I can also format and restore to factory condition without the need of taking it to a "certified dealer".

You're comparing Apple's to Oranges. If FORD wants to treat this like any other PC then they need to open the platform up, allow independent developers to create their own UI's and applications to run on it. They also need to distribute the full ROM for reinstallation/restore to factory state without the need to take it to a dealer. If this was treated as a Home PC by Ford then your comment would make sense, but this is treated as an in vehicle stereo system, which by every definition falls under Lemon Law specifications. On top of that many of these problems affect the climate controls, gauges, warnings, etc. When the thing blacks out the gauge clusters go blank, the stereo shuts off, the navigation stops, the climate controls are unusable.

This should work as advertised, or reasonable communications should be made with the customers regarding where exactly engineering is with solving the problem. FORD keeping tight lipped about exactly what it knows, doesn't know, or is working on is hurting them. If I was given a list of known issues, and estimated timeframes for fixes on each of the issues, I wouldn't complain about my nonworking system. As it is now it is rebooting on it's own WHILE I'M DRIVING at least twice a week. This is unacceptable for closed system. If your iPhone locked up and reboot on it's own constantly, taking up to 2 minutes to completely do so, and you were a completely stock consumer that hadn't jailbroken or modified the device in anyway, you'd take it back for a refund.

I completely understand and agree with you, except when your PC crashes, it's a bad event. When your car crashes, it's a REALLY bad day.

I can see where someone tinkers with the software, which inadvertently causes a safety system or alert to malfunction, causing a crash/fatality.

No, If I was Ford, I'd err on the side of locking it down, too.

 

[GTMD]

jrmexplorer,I see your point and agree there could be some software and memory issues.I think Ford is well aware of this and is addressing these as we comminicate.I also question that all issues are not software but in the user interface,I/O.Updating software and replacing interface module may not help if there are other hardware defects in some units.I Still believe ,that of the thousands of these units produced,the majority function very well and a lot of the problem is the end user and their peripheral devices.

 

[jrmexplorer]

jrmexplorer,I see your point and agree there could be some software and memory issues.I think Ford is well aware of this and is addressing these as we comminicate.I also question that all issues are not software but in the user interface,I/O.Updating software and replacing interface module may not help if there are other hardware defects in some units.I Still believe ,that of the thousands of these units produced,the majority function very well and a lot of the problem is the end user and their peripheral devices.

No question. And you know from my past posts (aside from this thread) that I've been a big supporter of this system - hands down the best system out there (glitches and all) - I just want Ford to understand that they still have a LOT of work to do to make it perform as it should and that version 2.11 is FAR from there.

 

[donm527]

Is the TSB finally and officially out? Can someone post it?

 

[StunnedMonkey]

I just want Ford to understand that they still have a LOT of work to do to make it perform as it should and that version 2.11 is FAR from there.

I doubt it will ever be there, wherever there is. This now the third update. Have we seen great strides yet? I'm convinced that the MFT is fundamentally flawed in a way that the best we can hope for is duct tape and baling wire. Some future Explorer will get the real fix...that is to say the full redesign that works as intended.

That's the price of early adoption I guess.

 

[GertR]

Does 2012MY have the same (suspect) hardware? If so then we would probably get the updated versions with them.

 

[Rhyalus]

Wow, I know you are a supporter of MFT and Ford, so I understand you must really be frustrated. Having said that, the arguement you describe feels more like frustration.

First, I'm in the camp that this update (2.11) was not a silver bullet, would not solve every issue that has occured, and no one would every have another MFT issue after 2.11. I think Ford took a list of issues and picked the top 10 or so and worked hard to make MFT better and more stable.

I read your statements and summarize by saying 2 things didn't work for you. First you plugged crap into MFT, it crashed and you think MFT should never crash, no matter what crap you plug into it. 2nd, you had a service (text messaging that never worked at least for you) and you messed with MFT enough that it became unstable.

Ford should never had advertised features like text messaging, if it only works on 5-10% of the phones they tested. Having called it a feature, people expect it to work and it doesn't for a vast majority of the smart phones (my blackberry 9700 as an example). Ford should get heat for a service that doesn't work for most people. But if the feature doesn't work with only a bit of configuration, then you must understand the system will become unstable/crash if you keep pushing buttons.

Plugging crap into your MFT and crashing it shouldn't suprise anyone.

With all due respect, this post is all WRONG.

He did not plug CRAP into the MFT, he plugged an IPOD and only tried to use documented features.

Ever hear of error handling?

Hard to believe you are defending MFT.

R

 

[w1kedz]

I completely understand and agree with you, except when your PC crashes, it's a bad event. When your car crashes, it's a REALLY bad day.

I can see where someone tinkers with the software, which inadvertently causes a safety system or alert to malfunction, causing a crash/fatality.

No, If I was Ford, I'd err on the side of locking it down, too.

Yeah.. my point is that if you're creating a closed ecosystem, there should be no excuse for the amount of problems, errors, and crashing that we are seeing. Ford controls every aspect of the system. Therefor this could very well turn into a lemon law or class action style argument for some. They have no one to blame