XE258 Comp Cam

Vogenitz69 · June 4, 2015

vroomzoomboom said:
thats what my truck did on the dyno at all ford nationals last summer. the mod list was long at that time, even longer now

Are those numbers rwhp? Or crank?

SWIGIN · June 4, 2015

Does anyone have the specs for the stock EX cam?

vroomzoomboom · June 4, 2015

Vogenitz69 said:
Are those numbers rwhp? Or crank?

rwhp

Vogenitz69 · June 4, 2015

vroomzoomboom said:
rwhp

And that's supercharged? Do you have the mod list from that dyno? I'd really like to get to 300 at the crank n/a at least. Which calculates somewhere around 230-240 at the wheels

In a couple years I plan to go remote turbo, but for now I'd like a solid n/a base build that throws decent numbers.

vroomzoomboom · June 4, 2015

it then had
302 stock block (98 explorer)
stock fox body (87-93) cam
mild ported gasket matched (both intake and exhaust) gt40p heads
mild ported (and gasket matched to heads) lower explorer intake
42lb ford racing injectors
explorer express eaton m90 supercharger with 2 inch pulley
ford lighting 90mm maf
custom made 4 inch intake tube from filter to throttle body (stock throttle body)
custom made 3 1/2 intake tube from throttle body to supercharger intake
innovate LC1 wideband
TMH
2 1/2 duel exhaust with duel in and out muffler
4406m transfer case
walbro 255 fuel pump
sct tuner
as mentioned, it will take a lot to get the numbers you want. another example, is that the motor that i have now is a 347 stroker. i was in a different truck (forum member here) it was dyno'd around the same hp as i had, but n/a. and it even has alum heads on it.
if your not to far from carlisle pa, go up there this weekend for all ford nationals. there are some members that will be there that were there when it was dyno'd

Dono · June 5, 2015

The reality of how hard it truly is to make real power is sobering.
There are all kinds of stories of guys that magically make all kinds of power, but it just isn't that easy (or cheap).

Vogenitz69 · June 6, 2015

Dono said:
The reality of how hard it truly is to make real power is sobering.
There are all kinds of stories of guys that magically make all kinds of power, but it just isn't that easy (or cheap).

Going to check out your build. I do plan on going remote turbo eventually. What kind of numbers are you putting out?

Dono · June 6, 2015

I have no idea of numbers.
I completed rear mount last summer. The turbo was a bit large for a street driven rear mount turbo. It really struggled with spooling in first gear, so there was no big gain with off the line acceleration. On the other hand, at 10psi from 3500rmp in 2nd gear it pulls super hard (its impressive, really impressive).
I expect the new 347 to spool the turbo much faster. Bigger displacement, bigger cam, bigger valves.

You can't beat the low end torque of a supercharger. Now I understand why people say supercharger for street use, turbo for track. The turbo doesn't consume nearly as much horsepower as a sc. The turbo's loss is in exhaust backpressure, while a belt driven consumes quite a bit under high boost.

Rear mount turbo has its own challenges if you are going to do it correctly. I found pcv is a huge issue.

If you were to go rear mount turbo, id go with a Chinese gt35 ball bearing in 68ar exhaust housing. You need to pull them apart and clean them before you ever run them because there may be metal shavings but guys are having amazing success with them, and they are less than 1/4 the price. They are smaller than what I have and would spool much faster.

All in all, my truck remained extremely mild mannered below 3500rpm and I like it as a dd.

Vogenitz69 · June 6, 2015

Dono said:
I have no idea of numbers.
I completed rear mount last summer. The turbo was a bit large for a street driven rear mount turbo. It really struggled with spooling in first gear, so there was no big gain with off the line acceleration. On the other hand, at 10psi from 3500rmp in 2nd gear it pulls super hard (its impressive, really impressive).
I expect the new 347 to spool the turbo much faster. Bigger displacement, bigger cam, bigger valves.

You can't beat the low end torque of a supercharger. Now I understand why people say supercharger for street use, turbo for track. The turbo doesn't consume nearly as much horsepower as a sc. The turbo's loss is in exhaust backpressure, while a belt driven consumes quite a bit under high boost.

Rear mount turbo has its own challenges if you are going to do it correctly. I found pcv is a huge issue.

If you were to go rear mount turbo, id go with a Chinese gt35 ball bearing in 68ar exhaust housing. You need to pull them apart and clean them before you ever run them because there may be metal shavings but guys are having amazing success with them, and they are less than 1/4 the price. They are smaller than what I have and would spool much faster.

All in all, my truck remained extremely mild mannered below 3500rpm and I like it as a dd.

68ar was actually already in the plans haha. I'd like boost to start in the 2200 range, funny how your build looked to go that way as well. Unfortunate to see the seals go. I'm only looking to run 5-6lbs of boost, so I can safely keep stock internals.

Dono · June 6, 2015

I made a few rookie mistakes. I was completely unprepared for lines clogging in winter.
Anyway, a fix is on its way.

Are you planning bigger injectors, maf, and fuel pump? I dont think you will even be able to go 6 lbs without upgrading that stuff.

A gt35 ball bearing turbo with 68ar would spool quick for you. Who knows, those things are cheap enough that one day I might just try one, it just depends on how much faster my turbo spools with the bigger motor passing more air. Problem is, you go too small on a turbo for quick spool, and it becomes a hindrance (Big exhaust restriction) in higher rpm's. Id say if your going to guess on the turbo, error on the high side.

In stock form, your motor is a big restriction. You will still see the biggest gains by starting with the turbo, then going in to the motor. You get crappy weather in the winter also, so hopefully you can just copy my pcv system (If it works, if it doesn't you will know what not to do).

Vogenitz69 · June 21, 2015

Quick update: my torque monster headers are almost done. Should have them within the next couple of weeks. Today my 24# injectors came in the mail, they're going to be the last to be installed. I also found a reputable tuner near me with a fairly decent rate. In the next week I'll be ordering my cam xe258 & required springs. While I have the engine apart, I also hope to find a machine shop willing to port& polish my lower intake. All in all I'm expecting a 20-30% increase in power

CDW6212R · June 22, 2015

2000StreetRod said:
I found the cam specifications on the internet:

Vendor Competition Cams
Product Line Competition Cams Xtreme Energy Camshafts
Cam Style Hydraulic roller tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range 1,300-5,300 RPM
Intake Duration 050 inch Lift 208
Exhaust Duration 050 inch Lift 216
Advertised Intake Duration 258
Advertised Exhaust Duration 266
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.533
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.544
Lobe Separation (degrees) 112
Grind Number FW XE258HR-12

I agree it looks like a fairly mild cam probably with a decent idle and modest performance increase from mid-range to high engine speeds. It might be good for a 15 to 25 bhp increase by itself. High flow heads would add more. You'd probably add a little with a larger throttle body.

That XE258HR is a mild cam. Given the stock heads and intake, the Explorer PCM can probably be driven "okay" with no tune. But I wouldn't do that for long, tuning the computer is the key to any good combo. The 19lbs injectors would also be usable for a while.

The stock heads and intake, plus the horrible single exhaust(count the mufflers), that is what limits these vehicles.

If you open up those parts(all of them) dramatically, then you can achieve 300rwhp. Leaving the single muffler and tailpipe, and choked off "headers", and any stock level heads, do not expect to see 250rwhp without adding boost.

It does cost money, but plan it wisely and go slow, it can be done. I've only got a few parts for my V8 swap for my 99 Limited, but they are great parts. I have 180cc heads ready to go($1100 ported and complete), they turned up while I was looking for TFS TW 170 heads, which are the ideal choice for a milder or truck application. GT40 or GT40P heads when ported fully only net around 140-145cc, they are too small.

I will build a 302 well, max the compression(about 10:1), the bigger heads, custom cam is a must, 75mm TB, 90mm MAF, 30lbs injectors, exhaust manifolds that are at least decent log manifolds(never 1.5" primaries for performance), 2.5-3" cat pipes, 2.5-3" dual mufflers and tail pipes. I'm staying with the stock Explorer intake for looks, though the GT40 lower is already ported(get TMoss to do yours). I got the 90* elbow ported ages ago, though it's too small as well(70mm is almost exaggerating the size).

Plan your engine for the final combo, stay stock for now if it will need special items for a turbo etc. So don't spend money twice for things.

Vogenitz69 · June 23, 2015

CDW6212R said:
That XE258HR is a mild cam. Given the stock heads and intake, the Explorer PCM can probably be driven "okay" with no tune. But I wouldn't do that for long, tuning the computer is the key to any good combo. The 19lbs injectors would also be usable for a while.

The stock heads and intake, plus the horrible single exhaust(count the mufflers), that is what limits these vehicles.

If you open up those parts(all of them) dramatically, then you can achieve 300rwhp. Leaving the single muffler and tailpipe, and choked off "headers", and any stock level heads, do not expect to see 250rwhp without adding boost.

It does cost money, but plan it wisely and go slow, it can be done. I've only got a few parts for my V8 swap for my 99 Limited, but they are great parts. I have 180cc heads ready to go($1100 ported and complete), they turned up while I was looking for TFS TW 170 heads, which are the ideal choice for a milder or truck application. GT40 or GT40P heads when ported fully only net around 140-145cc, they are too small.

I will build a 302 well, max the compression(about 10:1), the bigger heads, custom cam is a must, 75mm TB, 90mm MAF, 30lbs injectors, exhaust manifolds that are at least decent log manifolds(never 1.5" primaries for performance), 2.5-3" cat pipes, 2.5-3" dual mufflers and tail pipes. I'm staying with the stock Explorer intake for looks, though the GT40 lower is already ported(get TMoss to do yours). I got the 90* elbow ported ages ago, though it's too small as well(70mm is almost exaggerating the size).

Plan your engine for the final combo, stay stock for now if it will need special items for a turbo etc. So don't spend money twice for things.

Thanks for the reply! Very informative! I will look in to Tmoss to do my lower intake. It is also for looks in my build. I have a build thread over on one of the ranger forums that I specified that I wanted my build to appear factory both exterior and under the hood.

I'm also debating a custom cam, I recently reached out comp cams about it.
Today I was updated about my torque monster headers and should receive them shortly. I'll order my MAC intake eventually and I'll have my sheet metal shop fab up an Airbox to keep the hot engine air out for better idle & tuning. I'll stick with 24# injectors bc I really only want around 300 @ crank

For exhaust I decided to go dual again. This time I plan to get rid of the rear cats completely, go through a flowmaster 70 series, and go angled out before the rear wheels with foot long 3" tips.

CDW6212R · June 23, 2015

Double the exhaust airflow. Simply add one more muffler, pipe the two cat pipes into separate mufflers, and that alone will gain good power. A single muffler only flows half as much air as two of that same muffler. Dual exhaust means dual air paths for the engine, all the way from front to back. A single exhaust for a V8 means the two engine banks merging into one single path(one muffler and tail pipe).

Pick a muffler that is relatively thin, and stack them. Or pick two that aren't too wide, and slant the pair, where the stock one was. There is tons of room there for two mufflers, and if you dump them at the rear tire, then routing two over the rearend is no issue. Regards,

beach · June 23, 2015

Vogenitz69 said:
Quick update: my torque monster headers are almost done. Should have them within the next couple of weeks. Today my 24# injectors came in the mail, they're going to be the last to be installed. I also found a reputable tuner near me with a fairly decent rate. In the next week I'll be ordering my cam xe258 & required springs. While I have the engine apart, I also hope to find a machine shop willing to port& polish my lower intake. All in all I'm expecting a 20-30% increase in power

Their still making headers? Did you just call them up and order no problem?

Vogenitz69 · June 26, 2015

CDW6212R said:
Double the exhaust airflow. Simply add one more muffler, pipe the two cat pipes into separate mufflers, and that alone will gain good power. A single muffler only flows half as much air as two of that same muffler. Dual exhaust means dual air paths for the engine, all the way from front to back. A single exhaust for a V8 means the two engine banks merging into one single path(one muffler and tail pipe).

Pick a muffler that is relatively thin, and stack them. Or pick two that aren't too wide, and slant the pair, where the stock one was. There is tons of room there for two mufflers, and if you dump them at the rear tire, then routing two over the rearend is no issue. Regards,

Thanks again for the info. Will definitely keep this post in mind! I think 3" pipe from cats to mufflers and out should supply sufficient flow. My only set back will really be my muffler choice.. I want a flowmaster 70 series as its close to stock but a tad more noticeable, I'm over loud exhausts as I have one on my ranger & it's gotten old and i actually like my neighbors now. I'd definitely see better gains with a magnaflow or borla straight through muffler vs flow master chambered mufflers

& no, torque monster headers is no longer in business. BUT Al's Headers & Fabrication in Anaheim CA bought the plans for them and now manufactures them. And Yes, they are still very expensive lol. I don't want to send yours or anyone else's business to them yet as I still haven't received them yet and maintaining contact with them has been a tad difficult.

Accarguy · July 8, 2015

Have you gotten the headers yet? I am looking to put a set on mine.
Also how is the rest of the build going with the cam and everything else?

Vogenitz69 · August 20, 2015

Just figured I'd give this an update. My torque monster headers finally came in the mail. It only took 6 more weeks than advertised and a lot of calls and friends in Cali to light a fire under their ass. They are awesome construction, great quality like all the pictures you've seen online and stories you've read. My XE258 cam also came in along with my 24#'s. I have held off on the valve springs but I do know which ones (out of 2) I am ordering. My V8 swap is back on track now and I am gutting the explorer next Sunday at a friends garage. I'm sure I could post the remains on the forsale section of this forum but it's not really that of importance. So I guess if any of you guys subscribed want something from it before it goes to the scrapper, you have first dibs.
I ended up running in to a guy with a old mark 3 near me who has a close set up that I'm after, using the xe258 and gt40 heads along with some headers and other goodies. The ride was sweet, but it's a damn boat lol. What peaked my interest was his gas mileage. His 4500# boat is managing mid to low 20's mixed driving. Hearing this made me think my 3600# truck might be a candidate for mid 20's mixed. We will see though, can't get my hopes too high as it's not even done yet. Thanks for all your help guys, I'll be sure to keep this thread updated throughout.

Dono · August 20, 2015

Looking forward to your experience.
I wouldn't normally do this, but I had such a good experience with alexsparts you might want to have a look before ordering springs.
You can just email him the specs of your cam, along with what heads you have, and he will give you his recommendation. Even when I was looking for a replacement valve, he was very careful to make sure I was getting the correct one. Out of interest, he asked my cam specs and spring pressures along with my application. He did confirm that I have a good match on valvetrain components.

Vogenitz69 · August 20, 2015

Dono said:
Looking forward to your experience.
I wouldn't normally do this, but I had such a good experience with alexsparts you might want to have a look before ordering springs.
You can just email him the specs of your cam, along with what heads you have, and he will give you his recommendation. Even when I was looking for a replacement valve, he was very careful to make sure I was getting the correct one. Out of interest, he asked my cam specs and spring pressures along with my application. He did confirm that I have a good match on valvetrain components.

Thanks man. I'll definitely try and cross reference with him. I'm just excited to be driving a v8 again, let alone a modestly built one

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