2nd Gen Sploder Drivetrain Differences

Not sure if it helps but heres what I got..

91-94 all the same

95-96 All except 2 door - F57Z4A376AB 28.25" C-C 14.5" W-W
96.5-97 All (Also includes circular flange at TC) F67Z4A376BA 28.5" C-C 14" W-W

Both w/ double cardan

Cardone does not list a rear driveshaft for anything but the Sport for 96, and nothing for 97 or 98.

napaonline.com has a part listing, but no dimensions.

and I don't think they could have moved the motor around that much; the engine compartment is already pretty cramped!

maybe there were more changes to the BW4404 t-case that assumed? I knew they changed from the flat output flange, to the circular output cup between 96-97, and the speedo hole moved in mid-97 model year.
But maybe there were more changed 96-97? Or a change to the transmission trailhousing?

With a total front driveshaft length difference of 11", there's certianly no way they could have moved the motor that much.

ericautopart said:

Not sure if it helps but heres what I got..

91-94 all the same

95-96 All except 2 door - F57Z4A376AB 28.25" C-C 14.5" W-W
96.5-97 All (Also includes circular flange at TC) F67Z4A376BA 28.5" C-C 14" W-W

Both w/ double cardan

Click to expand...

are you sure the "circular flange at transfer case" is a double-cardan, and not the one pictured?

that is definately interesting... I'll hafta get the weld to weld measurement off the OEM d-c I have. But I'm sure it's more than 14.5"

how about listings for the V6's? Or are those part numbers for all engines?

Looks like all engines. I've run into problems, even on EF w/ people ordering a 1996 drive shaft from me and I sent them one..they came back to me telling me it's the exact same but they have a flange. It's not a CV just a flange.

ericautopart said:

Looks like all engines. I've run into problems, even on EF w/ people ordering a 1996 drive shaft from me and I sent them one..they came back to me telling me it's the exact same but they have a flange. It's not a CV just a flange.

Click to expand...

interesting...

it's basically the shaft that Rockford used to make.

ive got both of them here but you just got a new one

ericautopart said:

ive got both of them here but you just got a new one

Click to expand...

I got vibes from my Rockford driveline single-cardan shaft.
but I'm not sure if it was due to angles, or the shaft itself. Although Rockford admitted to a higher-than-acceptable return-rate on those shafts

which is why I'm trying to figure this crap out

since Ford used to use double-cardan shafts, there's gotta some design changes that forced them to use a GKN cv instead. Unless, of course, it was cost. But I believe a double-cardan is cheaper. A replacement rebuilt GKN cv joint is around $160. Just the joint.

And there must be a reason they went away from the single-cardan shaft too, because it's the least-expensive of the 3 styles of shafts.

Chrysler used to use DC shafts on Grand cherokees also and now use an even worse double CV design. Same goes for the new expedition and wrangler rear DS. Ours don't vibrate because were not rockford.

ericautopart said:

Chrysler used to use DC shafts on Grand cherokees also and now use an even worse double CV design. Same goes for the new expedition and wrangler rear DS. Ours don't vibrate because were not rockford.

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haha... well, even when I had a local driveline shop convert the Rockford to a double-cardan, and getting it balanced, then re-balanced, it still vibes.
Which is why I stated I'm not sure if it's the shaft or the driveline angles

when I originally measured the angles of the t-case, pinion, and driveshaft:



after replacing my front axle housing, and the transmission mount:


as you can see in the first pic, the GKN cv is the only style that would prevent a vibration. The t-case out put, for whatever stupid reason, actually points up! And the pinion is angled down! Granted, the measurements were done on a sloped driveway, but that doesn't matter due to the relative angles.

In the 2nd pic, you see that the t-case output still points up.
BUT, the pinion angle is MUCH closer to the same angle as the driveshaft.
To properly run a double-cardan shaft, without vibes, the pinion angle and driveshaft angle must match.

took some more measurements of my shafts... since I currently have 3 sitting in the garage

Shaft 1 (OEM 96 double-cardan): ~22.75" weld to weld. ~33.25" overall
Shaft 2 (custom double-cardan): ~19.25 weld to weld. ~28.5" overall.
Shaft 3 (OEM GKN CV): ~23" weld to weld. ~30" overall.

obviously, the weld to weld will differ from OEM specs, partially since I don't know exactly what part of the weld they measure at, and I didn't feel like counting it down to the 1/16th of an inch

Omfg... I am so confused. My front DS went out finally, went to Napa.. they told me there's two different sizes for my V8... which made no sense at all. So.... WHich one do I get?... Mine looks like this:



(The bottom one... so how much does it measure?) Am I mistaken or is getting the one without the cv joint a possibility? Would it be stronger than the current?

Measure between the welds on the tube-
either 22 3/4" or 23 13/16" length.

I remember reading somewhere here, Robert Paquale ( maker of Torquemonster headers) says there are 3 different engine spacing configurations-and, I guess after 99 they also moved the engine , t case and trans backward 1/2" . Read Mountaineergreens Header thread--

96-97.5(?) V8's used a double-cardan front shaft.
They are ~3" longer than the GKN CV-style shaft in 97.5(?)-2001 V8's.

see the pic in my first post of this thread. The upper shaft is from a 96.
The lower shaft, was a "conversion" shaft that Rockford Driveline used to make, with a single u-joint at either end. I had that shaft converted to double-cardan. The single-cardan and after I had it converted to double-cardan, still create vibrations.
FYI, I had written an email to Rockford Driveline, and was informed that there was a change in pinion angle between 96-97 model years for the V8 (iirc, I can find the email if need be)
Notice how the upper one is ~3" longer. Those also have a 4-bolt flange at the t-case, not the circular 6-bolt "cup."

if your existing shaft is the GKN cv-style, then there is only 1 replacement. Their computer should show that 1 shaft is 4-bolt, the other is 6-bolt ciruclar.

edit: was writing this reply when jtsmith posted. As far as OEM Ford replacements, the 97.5(?)+ V8's only have a single Ford Part#

Damn... I can't find a tape measure.

gavin said:

which is why I'm trying to figure this crap out

since Ford used to use double-cardan shafts, there's gotta some design changes that forced them to use a GKN cv instead. Unless, of course, it was cost. But I believe a double-cardan is cheaper. A replacement rebuilt GKN cv joint is around $160. Just the joint.

And there must be a reason they went away from the single-cardan shaft too, because it's the least-expensive of the 3 styles of shafts.

Click to expand...

Waking the dead!

The thing that changed from 95/96 to 97+ was the front diff vacuum disconnect.

91-94 = TTB front suspension, which means a moving front diff, which necessitates a slip-joint driveshaft. The 91-94's used either auto or manual locking hubs, so any rotation forward of the t-case was only part-time. 91-94s used a double-cardan joint at the t-case end. (Edit: Cardone Part # 65-9661)

95-96 = IFS, which means a fixed front diff, which means no slip-joint is needed. The front diff in the 95-96 used a vacuum disconnect (Edit: only the V6s), which I think disconnected the passenger side half-shaft when not in 4wd, but I'll need someone else to chime in as to whether the front driveshaft rotated only in 4wd like the 91-94s or it rotated full-time even in 2wd like the 97-ups.

Edit: For 96, Cardone lists part # 65-9623 (28.25") and 65-9622 (27 13/16"), the latter has the circular flange. For 95, Cardone oddly lists the 65-9623 as for a 4-door and they specifically don't sell a 2-door front DS. Why would they be different?

97-up = Same IFS as above, however no vacuum disconnect, just full-time front end rotation, which I'm guessing is the reason for the GKN CV style joint at the t-case end.

Now I don't know how all this plays into the lengths of the driveshaft. Maybe there was some difference between the vacuum-disconnect front diffs and the non-vd diffs. It is of note that a 91-94 driveshaft fitted with NeapCo N2-83-287X adapter, which would make the driveshaft a couple of inches longer, fits 97+.

Now, here's my question. I have a '99. I am converting my 4405 t-case to a manual 1354 t-case from a '94. I either have to install the 4405's GKN CV cup flange on the 1354 to use my stock '99 front driveshaft (which may not be bolt-on-possible), OR keep the 1354 flange and use a '91-94 front driveshaft. The latter sounded ideal, since double-cardan looks more badass, and apparantly more stout than a GKN, however, this always-on front driveshaft rotation setup of my '99 got me thinking that the non-GKN CV joint might not be up to the task and cause vibration issues. Does anyone know?

Also, I have searched and can't find an answer. Did ANY explorers come with a REAR driveshaft that had a double-cardan joint?

my 96 has no disconnect
only 95 & 96 V6 trucks had the vacuum disco

All I can think of after being extremely confused reading this is:

Is the cup style flange on the 97+ cup style AWD t case longer? sticks out further from the t case? (effectively making the transfer case longer)
would this have something to do with the old shorter 96 length?



I have a 98 in my garage and I drive a 96, I will have to compare
although my 96 no longer has AWD, I still have the shafts (I also parted out another 96 and I got a shaft with the 97.5 drivetrain in my BII, so I have some explorer V8 front shafts, none of them cup style! LOL go figure)

I also noticed the 99 5.0L no longer has the water cooled oil filter adapter
year to year changes are confusing, but there are alot of them!

410Fortune said:

I have a 98 in my garage and I drive a 96, I will have to compare

Click to expand...

You are a gold mine!

I just found the pic of Cardone's 95-96 rear driveshaft for the 2-door Sport (the only rear driveshaft for an Explorer they list). It has a double-cardan joint.

My '99 Sport rear driveshaft is only single-cardan. I'm having driveline issues right now, and I'm wondering if I can swap in one of these 95-96 shafts.

95-96 Sport rear driveshaft:

BonesDT, you will have vibration issues over ~45MPH with a double-cardan, unless the front output is either parallel with the ground, or angled down.

I have a couple diagrams many posts up on this page; the t-case output is actually angled UP, not parallel, and not angled toward the pinion.

The pinion angle is also angled up, which is normal.

Except that they do not essentially cancel each other out, due to the major difference in angle.

There has to be more difference than just the vacuum disconnect.

I thought I had posted here, but maybe not.

There is a good 4" difference between a 96 AWD V8 double-cardan front shaft, and the OEM GKN CV style front shaft from my 97 AWD V8.

Because of the great difference, there has to be more to it than just a different front output. There were other changes made to the t-case, also.

Obviously, the double-cardan t-case, you can replace the front output seal without breacking the case apart.
On the GKN CV-style case, you have to break the case apart. Granted, this may be only due to the style of front output, and the fact it uses a cup instead of a flange.