2004 ST Intermittent no crank - SOLVED!

[429CJ-3X2]

2004 Sport Trac - my daughter's driving it while her Kia is in the shop. This morning she made a stop on her way to work and the truck wouldn't restart. The relay clicks, but it wouldn't turn over. The battery has occasionally shown signs of needing to be replaced. It's almost 5 years old. I bought a new battery and got to the truck 2 hours+ after she called. (She was a mile from work, so her boss came and got her.) I got in and the truck fired right up as it was, without me doing anything but turn the key. I moved it from the pregnant mom's parking to a better spot to work on it.

I checked the battery with a digital meter, and got 12.48 volts. With the truck running, it was 14.19. I shut the engine off, and the voltage dropped from 12.72 to 12.50 in a couple of minutes, so I replaced the battery. Started right up. I went into the store for about 5 minutes, came out and tried to start the truck. The relay clicked, but no crank. I replaced the original positive cable end, which wouldn't tighten around the post sufficiently, although it was tight when I checked it after changing the battery. Truck started right up. I shut it off, tried to restart, and it wouldn't crank again. Relay clicked, but no crank.

Seeing a pattern of it starting after it sits for 15 minutes or so, and not knowing what else to do, I left it for an hour. When I got back and turned the key, it fired right up just like I expected. Shut it off and tried to restart, and get the click at the relay, but no crank. My daughter called just as I got back to the truck, so I told her that I think it will start when she gets off work, but don't shut it off until she gets to my house. It's in a grocery store parking lot 12 miles from home.

This is the truck that has the device that bypasses PATS, but I don't think that's the problem since the relay gets juice.
When the engine cranks, it cranks over like it should - no starter strain, drag, or hesitation, so it doesn't seem like a starter problem. It just won't crank at all within 15 minutes or so after it's been shut off. I'm at a loss!

 

[dvdswan]

Could be a couple of things: shift interlock solenoid or lockout for the shifter, starter solenoid, a loose or dirty/corrode connection or ground, or a bad ignition switch.

 

[429CJ-3X2]

I'm leaning toward the relay being bad and overheating. It works after it's been sitting, but it won't work to restart the truck until it sits long enough to cool off again. It started fine when my daughter got off work 3 hours after I left it. She went directly to her bartending job, which is 3 blocks from my house, so I haven't had a chance to look at the truck since early this afternoon.

I once had a '78 F100 with electronic distributor that suddenly would run for about 10 minutes and then die. Engine wouldn't fire until it sat or 20 minutes or so. My mechanic friend I used to consult with said that I'd checked all the normal things, and, "these almost never go bad, but it could be (some little part deep inside the distributor)." Sure enough, that's what it was. He told me, "You've checked all the normal stuff. It could be ......, but they like never go bad" on several occasions. This seems like one of those.

According to Rock Auto, the 2001 and 2004 use the same relay, so I'll try the one from my '01 parts truck when I get the chance.

 

[429CJ-3X2]

Well, it isn't the starter relay, unless I put the one I took out back in instead of the one from the parts truck. Side note - the BJB is in an ever-so-slightly different position in each of my 3 trucks, '01, '02, & '04. One of them is away from the edge of the fender enough that it's easy to pull the starter relay. The other 2 are closer to the edge of the fender and it's tough to get the relay out.

Since this started Thursday morning, it's started without issue after sitting 3 1/2 hours for my daughter to get to her second job. It started after sitting there for 5 1/2 hours. It started Friday morning when she left for work, and again when she left at the end of the day. Started after sitting for 6 hours at her 2nd job. Started this morning when she left to run an errand. Would NOT crank 15 minutes later. Would not crank when I tried an hour later - even after I swapped starter relays.

 

[410Fortune]

So if the starter relay is clicking when you turn the key then

The problem is a solenoid on the starter itself
Or the wiring to the starter
These starters have a second relay/ solenoid built into the starter, sounds Like yours is bad

The pats security system it is easy to see if the pats is working, the theft light will go off when cranking the starter = happy with the pats key

 

[429CJ-3X2]

Truck wouldn't start at all today. It's at my daughter's house 10 miles away. Not a bad place to work on it, as long as I take everything I need. Didn't get there til 3 today and only had an hour to work on it. I tried all the easy stuff - changed the ignition switch (and found the chipped key and extra cylinder that allows a non-chipped key to start the truck), changed the neg cable end, swapped relays. No change. Crawled under to see what it takes to get to the starter, but didn't have time to do much. Between the oil on the ground connection on the starter and the corrosion that I could see on the top wires, there's a good chance the starter isn't getting enough juice. I did buy a factory manual which arrived yesterday, and it says to remove the damper to gain access. The '02 manual doesn't mention the damper. On this '04 and my '02, the damper bolts to a thick steel plate that runs parallel to the frame. That plate is not there on the '01, and is another obstacle unless the damper is removed.

Any recommendations for starters? I'm not sure I want to use the one from the '01 that I know is at least 10 years old. Advance lists 2 reman Carquest starters, but nothing to indicate the difference. Rock Auto shows 2 Motorcraft reman #s, also with nothing to indicate the difference.

 

[410Fortune]

Starter on 4.0 sohc is a pita to access

Getting the bolts not terrible, unhooking the wires not terrible but getting the starter in and out is near impossible

Unless

You unscrew the two 18mm nuts holding your trans mount down and use a jack under the back of trans or t case and jack it up a bit
This gives you the clearance to get the starter out of its hole



I would go with motorcraft always however carquest reman is also very good and can give you a
Good warranty on the part in town

Battery cables and connections are key to ensuring the starter works well it must have full battery power and a good solid ground

 

[429CJ-3X2]

I looked at the starter in the '01 years ago and saw how difficult it is to get to and out. That's why I checked everything else first. Besides, there are some YT videos and comments saying a new ignition switch fixed similar problems. Most of the YT videos are for up through '01 - before they added that 4" x nearly 1/2" steel plate the damper bolts to. It sure looks like the damper has to come off. There's more room in the '01 to get the starter out. And the nut holding the ground to the starter seems to be somewhat rounded off.

My neg cable end was fine - a gold one from Autozone that clamps the cable ends inside it with Allen head screws. That gold makes it difficult to tell if the terminal is free of corrosion unless you take it off so the light hits it differently. Another downside is that it takes 3 different sized Allen wrenches to put together or disassemble. Only one to remove it from the battery though.

I don't know when I'll get this resolved. Besides the truck being 10 miles away, I've just become the primary caretaker for our 3 year old grandson. He was sent home from daycare 3 of the last 6 days he was there for hitting kids and adults, so my daughter pulled him out before they kicked him out. Something about a change in classrooms and teachers seems to be the source of his behavior.

 

[410Fortune]

The ignition switch is not the cause if your starter relay is clicking
It would be downstream of the relay which is basically one wire to the starter
My whole world revolves around the kids I love them! I would trade a 14 year old for a 3 year old any day of the week

I’ve done 3 sohc starters in the last two weeks so it is quite fresh

 

[429CJ-3X2]

Our son wasn't a problem. Daughter was a different story. We haven't had to deal with 14 yr old grandkids yet, although if you talked to our 9 yr old granddaughter, you'd think she was a mature 17 or 18 yr old - without the drama. The 3 yr old is either incredibly adorable, funny, or frustrating, often all at the same time! Goofiest kid ever, and 2nd isn't close. Their 6 yr old brother can watch YT videos all day, but he (6) was a big help when I was replacing a strut on my wife's Escort a couple of weeks ago. Top bolts are inside under the package tray, and he helped me get the studs lined up and put a nut on them. I didn't even need to tell him which way to turn it. I did the other one by myself the next day, and it was a struggle!

 

[429CJ-3X2]

Just ordered from a fulfillment Center in Kansas City for $77 & change - marked down 57%. Should be here Friday or Sat. Weather's going to be less than ideal til then anyway.

Ford Motorcraft SA-860-RM Starter Motor Black Remanufactured

FYI, the other Motorcraft starter some places list looks totally different in the 1 photo I found.

 

[429CJ-3X2]

I spent an hour and a half working on the truck today. A good portion of that was spent searching through the tools in both trucks and repeatedly crawling under the truck and out. I managed to get 2 of the 3 bolts out that hold the damper on. They have some yellow thread lock on them that's very difficult to break loose. I used my bolt extractor socket for extra grip. I have an extendable ratchet, and it was barely enough leverage. It doesn't help that you must use at least 1 swivel extension to get a socket on it, and even then the socket barely squares up enough to stay on the bolt. When they break loose, they make a loud pop and the socket slips off. You'd swear the socket slipped off because you just rounded off the bolt head! The 3rd bolt is on the front side of the damper and completely hidden from under the truck. I think I can see it through the wheelwell. but I'm not sure there's enough room to get the leverage needed.

What does the damper do, and how important is it for normal city/highway driving? It looks like the drivetrain would have to flex quite a bit to make contact with the damper. If this goes back on, I'm certain it won't have all 3 bolts holding it on!

 

[429CJ-3X2]

I typed up a long post Sunday evening with details I haven't otherwise mentioned only to find the site was down for the upgrade. Most of the post was about when it did and didn't start over the weekend. However, the following additional details may be relevant.

1) When the truck just clicks and won't start, and the key is in the run position, the lights in the dash come on and then off as they should, EXCEPT the Check Engine light stays on.

2) When I plugged my scanner into the OBD port, I got nothing. Scanner didn't power up. It does power up plugged into my '02 ST.

I probably won't get back to the truck until Saturday due to tomorrow's weather and babysitting the grandson.

 

[410Fortune]

I don’t have the anti vibration damper mounted to my sport trac front diff anymore. It was a. Huge pita to remove so I never put it back. Ford often used these on our transfer cases and rear diffs. The sport trac is the first time I have seen one mounted to the front diff. I typically remove all dampers from my rigs, I don’t mind being in “touch with the road” and I don’t get any wild vibrations

To be fair I have a v8 sport trac w 5’speed and weird side exit dual exhaust and a urethane trans mount and huge v8 t case custom drivelines
I don’t have any vibrations but I do get exhaust resonance though the chassis

For some reason the sport trac got a much longer front diff mount and that big vibration damper, rangers made until 2011 with the same engine trans front suspension etx never had this. I’m sure ford had their reasons…
But I chose to leave mine off so far so good

 

[429CJ-3X2]

I can't imagine any reason for that damper in normal daily street use, especially on a truck with over 200,000 miles. I won't be putting it back on - assuming I get it off. The brace/plate it bolts to is much longer on the '02 and later trucks than on the '01. The damper is also in a slightly different place on the later trucks, making its removal a necessity to get the starter out from what I can see.

Back at it tomorrow when I should have a good chunk of time to work on it. New starter isn't here yet. I'll be ready for a break when the old one is out anyway.

 

[429CJ-3X2]

Damper is off, starter is out, and the best part is that the truck is at home, not 10 miles away. The new starter isn't here yet, so it will likely be Wednesday before it gets installed due to weather and other commitments.

A video came up on YT of an F150 with a no crank issue that was caused by a bad PCM relay in the BJB. There are actually several videos on this. The guy from South Main Auto confirmed my thinking that a clicking relay means the relay is getting power, but doesn't mean it's passing power on through like it should. If you have a digital odometer, an easy way to check the PCM relay is to turn the key and see if the mileage shows on the odometer. If the numbers don't show, the PCM relay may be bad, resulting in a no crank situation. Yesterday morning, I reconnected the battery, which had been disconnected since Thursday afternoon, to see if my mileage showed. It did. Turned the key and it tried to start, but didn't, acting like the battery was dead. It checked at 12.24, down from 12.40 Thursday while being disconnected! For some reason, I had taken the old battery, which I had charged, and left it with the truck Thursday. I installed it, started the truck, and drove it home! It restarted twice within a few minutes, but wouldn't crank 3 hours later. But at least it's in my driveway now, not 10 miles away!

The 3rd bolt on the damper broke loose a little easier than the first 2 did, but turned hard all the way out. You can almost, but not quite, get a straight shot at the 3rd bolt. Needed 2 wobble extensions, and my HF bolt extractor socket kept slipping off. After the bolts were out, I thought the damper would fall right out, but no. There's a corner on the back side of the mounting flange that catches on the driveshaft and differential. Keep moving it around and it eventually comes out and makes room for the starter to come out. Maybe some warm day I'll feel like abusing myself and take the damper off the '02 preemptively so I don't have to do it when/if the starter on it fails in a less than ideal spot and time.

The big nut on the starter cable is easy enough to loosen, but the smaller wire was too short to allow the starter to turn so I could see it. Should have taken it off before I took the starter bolts out. While calling the engineers who designed this idiots, I was being an idiot trying to remove the nut for the ground between the starter and solenoid, which I should know doesn't come off. I kept trying to turn the starter, and eventually broke the terminal on the small wire. The starter fell right out. I have no idea what position it was in when it came out.

 

[429CJ-3X2]

My new starter was left Kansas City in the wee hours of Saturday morning, arrived in Des Moines (where I live) around 7:30 a.m., was scanned 3 times in Des Moines, but instead of sending it out for delivery, it was sent to Indianapolis! USPS tracking says it's now on its way to "next facility". No telling where "next facility" is.

 

[429CJ-3X2]

Starter was delivered today! Around noon, too! Sometimes the mail doesn't get here until evening.
The starter is bolted in place. The small wire that the terminal broke on was barely long enough (before putting the starter in place) for me to strip the end to add about 8" and a new terminal. Since I was focused on turning the starter to where I could get the wires off when the terminal broke and the starter fell out, I honestly didn't know how it was positioned when it came out. Because of that, I didn't connect the bigger wire before putting the starter back in. I kept twisting and turning it trying to get it back in when it suddenly slipped through and up into where it needed to be, and again, I don't know how it was positioned when it went in. All I know is, there's one spot and one position where the starter slips right through.

Didn't have any problem getting the top bolt in and tight or tightening the nut on the small wire. Getting the larger top nut on was a different story. I finally got it on the end of the stud, but it's not straight. I had to give up for the night because my fingers got cold enough I couldn't feel the nut well enough to get it on straight. Should have minimal distractions to finish this up tomorrow. Seems like this has been going on longer than 2 weeks!

 

[410Fortune]

The small things take the most time

That big power wire must be oriented correctly for it to
Bolt to the starter and not hit anything. It has a metal tab that lands in a spot to keep it in position

Fun times connecting that sucker now! You can do it. You may find it’s easier to drop the starter mounting bolts again in order to get the wire on

 

[429CJ-3X2]

I've considered that, but since the nut is on the end of the stud, just not quite straight, I'm not ready to give in! I think the wire is in the correct position. Getting it all the way on the stud was difficult, and I can't move like I first could. I found one narrow spot where I can see the stud, wire, and nut, and the wire terminal is all the way on. Of course, I can't see them when I get my hand up in there!