A rather odd ball A4LD(e) slipping.

[Transit TDI]

Appologies for a long first post!

As it's not an Explorer, and having searched the massive array of extremely useful information here on this site, (WOW) I haven't found exactly what I've been searching for.

If it's here, then just give us a link please?




Ok here's my problem;
My 2000 model Ford Transit van (in England) is a 2.5 turbo diesel with an A4lde transmission. (apparently extremely rare over here)

There are differences on this transmission compared to the Explorer range, but basically, it's the same box!
This one's completely hydraulically controlled on the inside and without any internal solenoids!

It does however have an electronic pressure solenoid in place of the usual vacuum unit.

The box had a straight forward clutch and band rebuild, but as with all these types of specific boxes, is still suffering from soft/slipping overdrive! (main problem)

Ford UK recommends a revised servo for anyone with this overdrive "concern" and even though this is fitted, it still slips when hot!

Reverse also suffers when hot!

First second and third are spot on!
Converter lock up is fine, but if I'm fussy, seems a little soft but certainly not slipping!

I've fitted the highly recommended Sonnax Large Boost Valve, but as the original one wasn't really worn or much different (apart from the O rings) it didn't seem to improve things.

The only other thing that may give some clues is the dubious engine braking!

Change down from "D" to "3" and there's only a 50/50 chance you'll have engine braking.
Change down to "2" and you have perfect engine braking ! (every time)
Change down to "1" and you have no engine braking!

Select "1" and accelerate, then release, you have engine braking!

Anybody have any ideas ?


(And mods, feel free to move this post if needed)

 

[BrooklynBay]

This is very interesting! In addition to the part that was circled, the VSS looks different (it has a short wire with a plug), and is on the opposite side of the extension housing. Could you take a picture of the other side of the transmission?

 

[Transit TDI]

I will do, but as it's nearly 2.30am here I'll do it later!

It's actually blanked off on the other side and is for the pre 1997 cable driven speedo version.

 

[BrooklynBay]

The ZC size of the servo is the largest size that is available.

 

[Transit TDI]

Had a look and found one of the other side!
Here it is getting ready to fit, without the electronic kick down solenoid fitted.

I also fitted one of those zc servos on second gear (band) but I found it too harsh, so fitted the old overdrive one which is perfect!

So that went from EB to AB!

 

[BrooklynBay]

The bell housing has a square cut out, and the starter pocket is on the opposite side closer to the top. I can't tell from the picture if there is a 3 prong solenoid connector. Does the neutral safety switch have 4 or 5 prongs? Do you have a picture of the electric modulator outside of the case?

 

[Transit TDI]

The square cut out on the bell housing is to enable access to the torque converter to flywheel attaching bolts.

The neutral/safety switch is a three prong affair which includes the reverse lights.

The EPC has two spades inside it's connector.

Here's what it looks like.

And to give you an idea of size.

I can also put pictures up of where this plugs into the transmission, as I did take a couple while it was all apart!

Boy I wish I found you lot earlier ! ! !

Automatics and UK don't seem to mix too well !
You should hear some of the misguided comments I get and the usual "convert it to manual mate! much better"

In fact, the box I just fitted, was from someone that supposedly had it reconditioned and still wasn't happy and did in fact convert to manual stick!

I removed the pan while it was out, to change the filter and found bits of friction material

I'd driven hundreds of miles to Wales to collect it, and I wasn't going to take it back now!

I stripped it, changed all the frictions and bands for new new ones, then with the valve block on the coffee table, took every single valve out, one at a time, checked for cleanliness and freedom of movement. All OK

Put it all together, fitted it, to find these problems.

Found you lot, thousands of miles away, and the Sonnax Valve mod, which I thought would cure my ills.

Ripped out the valve block and fitted this valve and now posting on THE site to be!

 

[BrooklynBay]

Does it have any additional solenoids on the valve body other than the TCC & 3-4 shift solenoids? You should make a rebuild thread on this transmission since it's so much different than the US version that we have here.

 

[Transit TDI]

No internal solenoids whatsoever !

The engine pulls so well, the sooner the box changes up, the better ! !

I guess this is why they never bothered with the TCC and O/D solenoids, which I guess the Granada/Scorpio have (hence they also have extra switches on the later ones?)


Here's a snap of my original valve block, as found (less oil filter) still in box.

Yes I know the oil is a little black, but wasn't going to change it, as I knew it was on it's last legs.

When I did change it at about 60,000 miles, it didn't seem as positive on it's changes!
I've also been told to never bother changing the oil once it darkens, as all the friction that's keeping it going is no longer there!

 

[BrooklynBay]

I'll assume that there is no kickdown cable. Is this correct?

 

[Transit TDI]

Correct !

It does however have an external electronic solenoid that does the same job.

The ECU also controls this via two relays, one for activation and one for holding.

I have a "drive/fly by wire" accelerator pedal !

All turbo Transit vans had this pedal since 1991/2 and was the first ever production commercial van to ever have this system !

 

[BrooklynBay]

This is what I think from looking over what you have presented so far: Everything internal as far as gear shifts, and torque converter lock up is hydraulically controlled except for the pressure points. The VSS sends a signal back to the PCM to adjust the EPC to regulate the pressure. I wonder if the EPC has inductive signature to help provide a feedback signal? How much does Ford charge for this EPC? Do you have a Ford part number from the box? If there are 2 relays controlling the EPC, then there have to be 3 wires in the connector? I only see 2 prongs on the connector. The EPC is supposed to be modulated, but a relay can't provide a modulated signal, but only a basic On/Off output.

 

[BrooklynBay]

I don't see a heat shield in the above picture. Does it have one? If not, then you should add one to protect the EPC & servos from the heat of the catalytic converter.

 

[Transit TDI]

Crossed wires here !

The kickdown solenoid has the dual relays and the EPC is controlled directly from the ECU via a PWM current/voltage signal according to pedal position.

Heat shields? What heat shields?
Just kiddin' ! Not needed on this application! There's loads of room around the transmission when fitted ! (makes a pleasant change!)

I've seen how the Explorer one is squeezed into a tunnel with the exhaust/cats running next to the servos! Nightmare or what!

 

[Transit TDI]

Forgot to mention, the VSS does provide the ECU/PCM with a signal and also does the speedo.



The EPC from Ford UK is the best part of £300.00 (including the VAT)

 

[Glacier991]

This is fascinating. I have never heard nor seen this before. BB emailed me and alerted me.

This may take a while for me to wrap my brain around. This looks like a lost link on the evolutionary changeover from the A4LD to the 4R44E.

You discovered what i have recommended for A4LD owners (and even for the 4R and 5R earlier models... ) buy a ZC servo and cap for the OD and move the AB back to the intermediate position.

I am suspicioning that you have some binding in your valve body spools. Try using Lubegard Platinum in addition to a complete fluid change. (And I HATE suggesting additives, except for this one).

 

[Transit TDI]

Hi there Glacier991, glad you find it fascinating ! And yeah! that servo mod must be one of the easiest and best things anyone can do on the A4ld type of box !

Works a treat, just hope the (I presume) band that disengages 1st gear doesn't get upset !

There use to always be a drag/overlap change, almost as though the engine timing was being retarded while the box was changing from 1 to 2 with an almost imperceptible change in revs (unless you used the kickdown or was in a bit of a hurry)

It's a very nice and tidy 1 to 2 now !

And you're right about this box being the "intermediate" box, as this is exactly how they came out over here!

We tend to call them A4ld, A4lde and A4ldE, (large E for fully electronic ECU controlled)

Ford stopped making an automatic Transit van in the UK (mine was one of the last ones) and 1 year later, the newer shape had a "durashift" ASM option.
This was an Auto Shifting Manual box, that had to be the worst possible, most ill conceived idea ever invented or put into production ever!
It was so bad, that there's no auto option at all now !

Sorry, end of soap box!



Back to the A4lde, I did check all the spools very carefully and all were in extremely good physical condition with absolutely no binding!

But there's nothing to say that certain springs haven't been affected by any age/heat damage?

So my questions are;

1) Is there a common link between "Overdrive" and "Reverse" ?

2)What valve/s (in the valve block) act as a relief for those positions ?

3) What additive would increase friction ? (as it may have to do as it is for now)


If I can suss out the first two questions, I can make sure that this problem will not occur when I rebuild my original box (which had the same symptoms for ages, but without the engine braking issues)


Perhaps a hole drilled some where will provide the necessary extra pressure ?

I am also looking out for a pressure gauge that is suitable for testing the pressure in the box under various conditions/selections, as this should also help suss it out.
I presume that I need one that goes up to 300psi ?

 

[BrooklynBay]

Crossed wires here !

The kickdown solenoid has the dual relays, and the EPC is controlled directly from the ECU via a PWM current/voltage signal according to pedal position.

This is confusing. I thought that the only solenoid is the EPC in the place where the modulator would normally go. Where is the kickdown solenoid? To answer one of your previous questions, you would need a 0-300 PSI test gauge. I don't know if you have a separate EPC test port like the newer models. It's hard to diagnose the valve body since it's different than the US version. I don't know how much different it is internally, but I know that the single solenoid version that was used until 87 had a TCC solenoid, then the 88-up version had an additional 3-4 shift solenoid. Your version doesn't have either one.

 

[BrooklynBay]

The EPC from Ford UK is the best part of £300.00 (including the VAT)

I typed £300.00 to US Dollars into Google, and this is what the US amount is: UK£ 300.00 = 419.13 U.S. dollars!

 

[Transit TDI]

Sorry for confusion BB !

The kickdown is conventional bar the way it's activated.

The electronic accelerator pedal has a "high" (kickdown/maximum fuelling) and a "low" (idle demand) micro switch built into it and it's the "high" switch that commands the ECU that kickdown is required.

It's still completely hydraulic as far as the transmission it's self is concerned.


As the weather is nice and bright today, have another piccy !

I'm guessing that the only reason you have internal solenoids for TCC and O/D might be to do with the way a petrol engine delivers it's power and possibly coupled to a "faster" axle ratio?
And that TCC and O/D are "held off", until your ECU map program says it's ok?

Having said that, your 4.0 litre engine must have some awesome power !!!

Makes me wonder how this A4ld design can take the power from a 4 litre engine !?!



Just had a dig around for the exact price on the Pressure Solenoid and it was £235 + 17.5% VAT (at the time) which came to exactly £276.12.