Alignment w/ 4" lift on TTB

[srknova74]

Well, here is the thing, my front end is aligned according to the real nice laser alignment rack, however, It doesn't appear to be quite right and I'm a little cornfused??!!&^*&@#

[94 XLT 4x4] I have a 4" Tuff Country lift up front. This means that the axle pivots have adjustment. I also have the upper ball joint adjustment for caster/camber. Well, we got everything within .01 degrees and she was green lit to roll.

When driving I had a healthy left pull. I got home and it looked as if the drivers side had a little negative camber and the passenger side had an equal amount of positive camber. So, the whole front end looks equally tilted.

Does this sound abnormal to anyone else? Any suggestions? Should I be aligning it to factory specs or something different? The alignment machine we are using just has an area to enter the vehicle info, then it automatically has you adjust to stock factory settings.

Any help (before I eat my MT's to death) would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[nitro71]

It's screwy. I'd take it back to them. Think about getting a lifetime alignment from Firestone also.

 

[410Fortune]

what pitman arm are you running?

You likely need 2.5 degree camber shims on the upper ball joint and at least a 4" drop pitman arm

Also you may want to find another shop, just because you can run the laser alignment machine does not mean you understand how to properly align a lifted ttb

if you have ever watched the TTB work, (Like driving down the road) you will see with rop bracket lifts even a small amount of weight transfer or steering, or truck lean, will cause large changes in the camber and toe of the TTB,

Lets see some pics of your setup!

 

[srknova74]

what pitman arm are you running?

You likely need 2.5 degree camber shims on the upper ball joint and at least a 4" drop pitman arm

Also you may want to find another shop, just because you can run the laser alignment machine does not mean you understand how to properly align a lifted ttb

if you have ever watched the TTB work, (Like driving down the road) you will see with rop bracket lifts even a small amount of weight transfer or steering, or truck lean, will cause large changes in the camber and toe of the TTB,

Lets see some pics of your setup!

I have a Rough Country drop pitman arm. The guys do know how to use their rack, plus I was right there with them. I may need more ball joint shim, but like I said, we had it dialed in... caster/camber and toe. I'll post some pics of it and see what ya think. PS, I am an accomplished mechanic, however, aligning lifted TTB's isn't my specialty

 

[Maniak]

Even with the rough country drop, it may not be enough..

You want the tie rods as flat as possible..

This is how it "should" look.. and yes, I used a Wide angle lens so the tires "look" toed out, but they aren't.

To answer your orig question.. Yes, the camber you described sounds off. The Camber should be set about 0. When the TTB suspension bounces the camber changes.

Also, the most common cause of pull, assuming the toe/camber is set correct is the caster split. Caster is only "somewhat" adjustable and many explorers lean to the left (gas tank and driver are on that side) which screws up the caster on one side.. and IIRC, less caster on one side causes it to pull to that side (I might have that backwards).

The aligment shop/tech I used to use (he doesn't do alignments anymore as he changed fields) always had me bring in the X with about 1/2 to 3/4 tank of gas, my normal gear and I would sit in the truck. With the softer springs we run on our X it made a different with the alignment settings.

~Mark

 

[srknova74]

Even with the rough country drop, it may not be enough..

You want the tie rods as flat as possible..

This is how it "should" look.. and yes, I used a Wide angle lens so the tires "look" toed out, but they aren't.

To answer your orig question.. Yes, the camber you described sounds off. The Camber should be set about 0. When the TTB suspension bounces the camber changes.

Also, the most common cause of pull, assuming the toe/camber is set correct is the caster split. Caster is only "somewhat" adjustable and many explorers lean to the left (gas tank and driver are on that side) which screws up the caster on one side.. and IIRC, less caster on one side causes it to pull to that side (I might have that backwards).

The aligment shop/tech I used to use (he doesn't do alignments anymore as he changed fields) always had me bring in the X with about 1/2 to 3/4 tank of gas, my normal gear and I would sit in the truck. With the softer springs we run on our X it made a different with the alignment settings.

~Mark

Wow man my X didn't have that straight of a drag link stock!! Maybe that's the issue. Let me get the pics and and see what you guys all think.

 

[srknova74]

Sorry, only had a cell phone to take pics with here at work. The camber pic is a little more dramatic than it actually is but I wanted to get the point across. It IS bad enough to cause uneven tire wear. Hopefully you can still see what I'm getting at...

PS - I do have the camber shims too... maybe I need more???

 

[RangerX]

Camber shims come in different degrees, which one do you have? With a 4" lift, you'll need the biggest available, which is 2.5.

Also, running mud tires on a lifted TTB means never having even tire wear again. It's the trade off you make. Ask me how I know.

Yours does sound like something is off and can be improved, though.

 

[Scott B.]

I would go to a different shop. (Try to get your money back from the first one, though.)

Make sure the adjustment bolts on the pivot drop brackets are tight.

Might want to sit in the truck when it is being aligned, too. Your weight can actually make a difference in the alignment.

 

[srknova74]

I would go to a different shop. (Try to get your money back from the first one, though.)

Make sure the adjustment bolts on the pivot drop brackets are tight.

Might want to sit in the truck when it is being aligned, too. Your weight can actually make a difference in the alignment.

No money involved... these are friends and I did it with them. I know how to use the rack and so do they. The sitting in the truck thing is a great idea. I will probably do that.

 

[srknova74]

Camber shims come in different degrees, which one do you have? With a 4" lift, you'll need the biggest available, which is 2.5.

Also, running mud tires on a lifted TTB means never having even tire wear again. It's the trade off you make. Ask me how I know.

Yours does sound like something is off and can be improved, though.

I don't know what shim it is, it was one lying around the shop. It was a hell of alot of adjustment though. I know I won't get "great" tire wear, but "decent" would be nice. With everyone posting up on this thread though, I assume that there trucks are better than mine. I beggining to think the alignment rack may need to be calibrated or something. Also, what I'm getting at is that I have more adjustment, it's just that the rack said that it was on spec and I have a bad result visually looking at it. IDK - pita!!

 

[seth247]

Yeah I'd stick it back on the rack. If it still shows true. Then it might need a calibration.

 

[srknova74]

I'm going to rack it again on my next day off and see what we can do. I'll keep y'all posted... wish me luck!!

 

[Four0Sport]

Before I type this all out let me just say, as many of you know, EVERY truck is different. With that being said, I have the full RC TTB lift with their standard drop pitman arm and the truck was able to be aligned to spec w/out chaning the camber shims on the upper balljoint. The truck drives straight, has hardly any bump steer, does not unevenly wear the tires, and has not deviated much since getting the alignment about 9 months ago. The only problem I have is the steering wheel is not lined up straight when I am moving straight down the road, but the truck had that same problem before the lift.

 

[410Fortune]

2.75 degree is the max correction camber shim for a 4x4 D35 ttb last I checked

Get some 2.75 4x4 shims, install them on both sides, then take it back to the rack, 1/2 tank gas, check tire pressures, etc

those pictures do not show much, can you get some more? I want to see how your coils are sitting in the buckets, the angle of your tie rods compared to the beams, get some good pics! it could be a big help here

 

[srknova74]

2.75 degree is the max correction camber shim for a 4x4 D35 ttb last I checked

Get some 2.75 4x4 shims, install them on both sides, then take it back to the rack, 1/2 tank gas, check tire pressures, etc

those pictures do not show much, can you get some more? I want to see how your coils are sitting in the buckets, the angle of your tie rods compared to the beams, get some good pics! it could be a big help here

I'll try and get some decent pics before next Monday (I'm racking it again on Monday the 27th). The angles are good on the steering and the coils are good in the seats, but I'll definately try to get pics for a second opinion. I'll get new shims before I hit the rack. I think I'll get half a tank of gas and sit in it this time!!

 

[srknova74]

I'll try and get some decent pics before next Monday (I'm racking it again on Monday the 27th). The angles are good on the steering and the coils are good in the seats, but I'll definately try to get pics for a second opinion. I'll get new shims before I hit the rack. I think I'll get half a tank of gas and sit in it this time!!

HEY!!! Reese makes the shims in 3.5!!! Yippee, I'm going to try to order some and get them here by Monday :

 

[410Fortune]

careful 3.5 degree shims are for a 2wd beam axle, when installed in a 4x4 TTB they are actually 2.75 correction....

UNLESS there are new parts on the market that have not existed before.

camber shims for our trucks can sometimes be marked with a 3.5 degree (max correction when installed in a 2wd) but if you check the part details you will find its 2.75 degree in the TTB

Been down this road! ended up building cut and turned beams to run a 6" coil with 2" drop brackets

 

[srknova74]

careful 3.5 degree shims are for a 2wd beam axle, when installed in a 4x4 TTB they are actually 2.75 correction....

UNLESS there are new parts on the market that have not existed before.

camber shims for our trucks can sometimes be marked with a 3.5 degree (max correction when installed in a 2wd) but if you check the part details you will find its 2.75 degree in the TTB

Been down this road! ended up building cut and turned beams to run a 6" coil with 2" drop brackets

Good advice. I can't take it anymore so it's getting racked Thursday morning instead of Monday. I have a local parts store that carries the shims in almost all varities. It's going to be straight by afternoon Thursday or I am committing myself to a looney bin... or buying stock in my favorite tire company. I was excited to see the shims up to 3.5, but in retrospect, it doesn't matter because I don't know what's in there now or if that is my actual problem. It still makes me happy knowing how many shims are out there. It does scare me a little that you had to modify the beams to get it right. I'm not really wanting to do that right at the moment.

 

[4x4junkie]

These recommendations to "just get the biggest camber shims available" are not likely to do much to fix the problem... Those shims adjust the CASTER as well, and if they are not the correct size it could result in improper caster even though you might be able to dial in the camber to where it looks good.

The "book" way to do it is to install 0° bushings on the upper balljoints, and THEN take a reading on how far off both the caster & camber are, then select an appropriate degree bushing to correct it (the procedures for doing this are outlined pretty clearly in the Ford service books. Any good shop SHOULD have some reference material on hand to look this up if needed. Not sure how many actually do that though ).



FWIW, I've done all my alignments at home using fully-adjustable 2-piece bushings that do not need replacing each time a different degree is called for.
A tape measure, a level (camber gauge) and a trip or two around the block is essentially all that's needed to align a vehicle (big $100,000+ computerized alignment machines are supposed to make the job easier, but I'm not convinced they make for a better alignment, especially if the thing hasn't been calibrated in awhile, which sounds possible in this case). It might just be worth it to read up about the specific parameters used in aligning a vehicle, how each interacts with handling and/or tire wear, and give aligning it yourself a shot. A set of 2-piece bushings (Ingalls 594, etc.) can eliminate the guesswork needed with bushing selection, you just look at the chart they come with (or can be downloaded from the MFGR website), find your current setting, and then follow the chart to the new setting, reindex and reinsert the bushing accordingly.
It's not like you have much to lose, other than maybe a bit of free time (being the truck is obviously not aligned properly right now anyway)
Too many times I've seen shops botch this simple job, especially on the Ford Twin-Beam stuff.