Cracked head or am I being took?

[kola]

Hi:

How does a mechanic tell if a head is cracked?

This morning I dropped my 98 Explorer (86K miles) off at the Ford dealership because my "check engine" light was on, and the engine was running rough (missing). Just twenty minutes after driving my vehicle into the service bay, the technician said that my #4 cylinder was not firing because the head was cracked.

How did he determine the problem so quickly? Could the misfiring be due to something else?

What questions should I be asking the technician?

Thanks

 

[james t]

he would have had to pull the head. even then, its often times not obvious. he is trying to rip you off. go get the truck, and never use that dealership ever again.

wish i could pull a head in 20 minutes.

 

[checkedout]

A code scan probably told him that #4 was missing but unless he pulled the plug and found it wet he couldn't tell why yet. Cracked heads are a common problem in explorers. Did it ever overheat?

 

[LuckyRVA]

Can you see white smoke coming from your tailpipe when the car is on? Most likely if you DO have white smoke coming from your tailpipe then your head is cracked or you need a new head gasket.

Oh, and take your car somewhere else!



-Jason

 

[kola]

Thanks for the quick responses.

I have since called the service manager and asked about the quick diagnosis. He said that the plug was pulled and it had coolant on it. I then said that could just mean a blown gasket, not a cracked head, and he agreed. He said that there is no way to really tell if it is just a blown head gasket or cracked head until the head has been removed. Is that true?

Also, I was told the "service engine" code was 304. What is a 304? (I am going to post this question as separate thread). I looked at the below website, but 304 was not listed.

http://www.therangerstation.com/3digitcodes.html

Thanks again.

 

[checkedout]

I don't have my book with me to look up that code, maybe someone else knows.
Yes the only way to determine if it is a head or the gasket is to pull the head.

 

[james t]

what engine is it? 4liter OHV? 4liter SOHC? 5liter V8?

if there is coolant on the plug then more than likely it is a head gasket. yes, the head could in fact be cracked, but there is no way of knowing unless its pulled. my only problem with the whole diagnosis is the fact that he told you it was a cracked head after 20 minutes, rather than saying it could just be the gasket.

 

[Alec]

I believe 304 is the misfire in #4 code. (300 is random, and 301-306 are the cylinders).

It is a blown gasket or cracked head, but from now on you should only deal with the service manager and ask that the first mechanic not work on your truck.

 

[kola]

It is the 4.0 OHV.

There were no other problems that I noticed other than the rough running. The vehicle was not overheated, no leaking onto the ground or white smoke.

thanks

 

[checkedout]

had the same problem on my 96 V6. Felt a little miss, checked the plugs, coolant on #4. got the same responce from three different shops just from telling them I found a fouled plug. They had all seen it before. When they repaired them they started out thinking gasket but all turned out to be cracked heads. When I asked to talk to a mechanic he even told me that it was either #3 or #4 that I found fouled. I to, had no other symtoms.

 

[srwilson8074]

Usually a cracked cylinder head "depending" where it is cracked can be very easy to diagnos. Was the car just running rough or did you have milky oil, white smoke coming from the exhaust? Mis fire code is just that. Bad plug or bad wire. In some extreme cases if you have seperate coil packs a certain coil pack could be bad. I had a Ford Escape the tech diagnosed my problem wrong causing me several thousand dollors of damage. Do a cylinder leak down test on suspected cylinder. If the selected pressure starts to drop you can have a couple of things. Worn rings, valves that are not seating properly, breached cylinder wall or a crack in the head. Most mechanics are usually honest, diagnosing a problem can be very challenging. Codes are not item specific, it gives you the basic area to start looking. Naturally unless it is a common problem with a certain vehicle I start at the cheapest thing first, mis fire I would look at the plugs, test the wires, check the coil pack. I did not notice the code if you can send it to me and I can give you different areas to start looking.

 

[bisjoe]

I had the same check engine light and code on my '96 4.0, and no other symptoms. It ran fine, no smoke or missing. The dealer found coolant on the
plug and I had to agree to pay for pulling the head which I did thinking it would be covered by the 3rd party extended warranty. This was at about 97,000 miles. The head was cracked between two cylinders (I saw it). The warranty people wouldn't pay for it since their inspection showed it was not caused by the failure of any other part, no sign of overheating so they declared it to be a factory defect in the head casting that took a long time to show up. To shorten a long story, eventually the dealer, warranty people and I worked out a deal where I paid 1/3 ($600) and they each paid a third, but the new head from Ford
was defective and two days later it sucked a valve and I got a new engine free.
(actually for $600, I guess).

 

[srwilson8074]

The luck of the Irish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Four0Sport]

i have a 2.9 broncoII sitting 50 yds away from my computer with pass side head problems. im too lazy/poor to do anything with it. one day i will though. i love those little trucks.

after my wreck in my 97 my climate controls would not work, talked to a dealer and a mechanic who both, b4 i even finished saying what was wrong, told me it was the switch or the resistor. talked to a friend that comes in work, he told me the exact hard plastic vaccuum line to check, sure enough, it was just a cracked hose.

good diagnosis is hard to come by these days.

 

[srwilson8074]

Amen Brother!

 

[Four0Sport]

most of the time i just call some mechanics i know and ask them if i can put my truck up on their lifts to take a better look and get some opinions. gonna be doin this monday on my 97, got a weird whomp whomp vibration in the front. im thinking wheel bearings but i want to check the driveshaft out too. im deffinetly not crawling underneat of the truck anytime soon, the high tomorrow is 8.

 

[Groundspeed]

warranty issue

Hi, I have a '96 Explorer and needing a little info if anyone could help. My 6 cylinder has cracked heads. The company I purchased a warranty from, through the Ford Dealership I bought the vehicle from, is denying the claim. They are saying the thermostat did not open properly, thereby causing the engine to overheat and causing the heads to crack. Thermostat is not covered as part of the engine. The Ford technicians at the dealership are in complete disagreement with this, as am I. I think the heads cracked, thereby losing coolant, as I had at least 4 plugs foul out in a year's time. Coolant would get low and I replaced it. The temperature guage never went up, it never steamed, and the overflow bottle never backed up and overflowed as should happen if coolant wasn't getting thru the thermostat. Thus, I think the heads cracked because of a defect or whatever, not overheating because of the thermostat, which the Ford technicians say WAS opening. I have heard of cracked heads being a problem with these engines. Does anyone know of any documentation, etc., especially from Ford, that I could access to help in my disagreement with this warranty company? Has anyone else here been through this type of experience? My Ford Dealership is still in 'negotiations' with the warranty company, as they totally disagree with them, also. Anyone have any thoughts/ suggestions, or know where I could find helpful info on cracked heads being a problem with these vehicles? Thanks.

 

[IZwack]

Since the warranty company is claiming that the tstat didnt open properly, cant you just bring the tstat to them and a hot thermos of water, and then do a bench test right there in front of them? If the tstat opens, then their claim that the tstat didnt open holds no ground. Or hold the meeting/demp at the Ford dealership so the dealer is also present since they are also an involved party. And as a control, you can use a new tstat (of the same temperature rating) and dump it in the same water

 

[Groundspeed]

Thanks for the reply, IZwack. The warranty company sent someone to check it. They did the boiling water test and said the thermostat was not opening properly, which the dealership technician with 30 years of experience disagreed with. I would think if it was opening much at all, which apparently it was, there would be be sufficient coolant flowing to keep it from overheating. And as I said, the temp. guage never registered high, no steaming, no pressure on the overflow bottle, or any symptoms of overheating. Just fouled plugs and the loss of coolant (which I kept replacing). There was one crack in each head....

 

[explorerguy89]

well if you want kola since you'd hafta get your heads shaved with a new gasket anyway if you can do it yourself i have a brand new set of 4.0 ohv heads i can sell you. just lemme no