Don't buy 3rd Gen with 4.0L

[TechGuru]

I'd try a manual tensioner

Ya I'm thinking the inconsistency is being caused by sometimes the hydraulic tensioner holds pressure between run cycles and sometimes it don't.

 

[donalds]

Ya I'm thinking the inconsistency is being caused by sometimes the hydraulic tensioner holds pressure between run cycles and sometimes it don't.

I Made a thread with a video on the tensioner
Have u seen it

 

[TechGuru]

I Made a thread with a video on the tensioner
Have u seen it

nope

 

[donalds]

nope

Ford Timing Chain Tensioner Cutaway

Thought I'd post this. Thought it'd help someone. Any thoughts?

www.explorerforum.com

 

[Easypoints23]

I don't think that particular 3.5 V6 is a good choice, I think that's one of the type with an internal water pump. Avoid all internal water pumps, that's a far worse problem than the weak timing chain system on these 4.0 SOHC V6's.

But the idea to swap a later engine into the 2nd gen trucks, I'm planning to try that some day. The cost would be a good $4k or more due to the requirement of a ring gear change front and back, plus drive shafts, and adapting a transfer case(plus its cost). I like the 2017 F150 3.7 NA version, which is the first of the improved DI engines. If you could find that in a 4WD version with the mated 6R80 and all wiring, PCM etc, then it may be possible. Nobody is in a rush to spend $4k to upgrade the SOHC 4.0 that I've seen here.

I wasn't even thinking about the drive train so yeah probably end up being more than just getting a new engine for the explorer itself with metal guides. And yeah my Lincoln is the 3.5 with the internal water pump. I've got 106k on it with no issues (knock on wood) but I was also told the electronic suspension would go out at 100k and the PTU's would go out at 100k guaranteed. No issues with those either, so who knows. That 3.5 is seriously quick tho. Buries the speedo in my MKZ in 11 seconds flat (0-120 mph) so I figured it would have plenty of power.

Theoretically, you could just use the drive train from the Lincoln as well, I think. They are about the same size, same exact size wheels too. Then you wouldn't have to configure the explorer. Just have to make it fit. It would just be AWD instead of 4WD. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing because the electronic 4WD in this generation sucks anyway. The AWD system in the Lincoln is phenomenal. It would out pull the explorer in 4WD any day. And at least you wouldn't have to play with it to get into 4 low just put it in first gear. The Lincoln would probably out pull the explorer in 4WD with my honda in front pulling also

 

[CDW6212R]

The biggest problem with most late model engine swaps, is the control system. The PCM is tied into the rest of the electronics, the GEM or other body control units, the Canbus etc. The only easy swap I have read of is the Coyote 5.0's, there is a PCM package that is made to be a stand alone to work in any vehicle. But that too is high, $2k is what I read lately for that 5.0 system.

The other engine swaps would have to work out how the PCM could operate without the rest of the late vehicle's systems, instrument cluster etc. That kind of swap I've not found yet in my minor hunting for engine and trans information.

Your MKZ idea is a Lincoln so it might even be worse given how complicated Lincolns are electrically. I would want just the engine/trans part of the late PCM system and wiring, but it definitely wouldn't be that simple.

 

[Easypoints23]

The biggest problem with most late model engine swaps, is the control system. The PCM is tied into the rest of the electronics, the GEM or other body control units, the Canbus etc. The only easy swap I have read of is the Coyote 5.0's, there is a PCM package that is made to be a stand alone to work in any vehicle. But that too is high, $2k is what I read lately for that 5.0 system.

The other engine swaps would have to work out how the PCM could operate without the rest of the late vehicle's systems, instrument cluster etc. That kind of swap I've not found yet in my minor hunting for engine and trans information.

Your MKZ idea is a Lincoln so it might even be worse given how complicated Lincolns are electrically. I would want just the engine/trans part of the late PCM system and wiring, but it definitely wouldn't be that simple.

That is what I figured. Computers always get in the way. Damn technology. Love that I can post this from my phone. But hate that I can't drop a motor from the same maker in a truck and use it because of a to be honest unnecessary computer.

Sure they monitors engines and control modules way better then we could but they don't belong in vehicles. They belong in offices. At least the office kind have interchangeable parts without many issues. Sorry, little rant about how much hate computers in cars.

I had quite a few ruined by those issues. I don't know if saw my post further up about Bonnevilles but that is what killed both. The second one the engine and computer system were transplants and it just wouldn't start half the time and no one could figure it out. Killed a Nissan Altima also. Because the insurance was to cheap to use a new ECM. So they picked up a used one and confused the engine so bad it sounded like a diesel. I took it Nissan 47 times and finally they were sick of me and told if the car doesn't say there is something wrong with it there is nothing we can do. Blow it up it's under warranty. Brand new car and the service managers answer. It kills me.

My first car was a Pontiac 6000. 1988. The v6 in those was carbureted and was terrible. So someone dropped a Honda motor in mine with the Pontiac tranny cause they bolted right together. My mom bought it and had it for 12 years before I got it. I drove it for 3 or so years before it rotted out. 257k when the odo quit working. I had it for like 2 years after that.

Used to be so easy when car companies made cars. Somewhere along the line they became to big to fail and not only made unnecessary changes but decided to make cheap junk with a throw away attitude. Wonder if culture led them or if they led culture? But I wouldn't drive anything new if it was given to me. I'm sorry 4 cylinder turbos will never be as good a v6. Small motors are absolutely not efficient if you want the car to move. And most cars are dumped because a light came on and no one knows why. Just sad. I'll get of my soap box now.

Thanks for the info and confirming what I knew was true. My old explorer is done for. I liked that truck. The heated seats still work and my ass is gonna miss that. The Lincolns broke like a year after I bought it. Way to expensive to fix a convenience.

I only read a little on those Coyotes but they seem like bad ass piece of engineering. I didn't know that you could get a stand alone PCM. I'm guessing its 2k for the system plus the price of the engine correct? Otherwise that not to bad considering what you are getting. I wouldn't put it into my explorer but I would love to drop a 5.0 in the Lincoln. It would be a beautiful sleeper. If the AWD could handle the extra horses.

 

[Mbrooks420]

That is what I figured. Computers always get in the way. Damn technology. Love that I can post this from my phone. But hate that I can't drop a motor from the same maker in a truck and use it because of a to be honest unnecessary computer.

Sure they monitors engines and control modules way better then we could but they don't belong in vehicles. They belong in offices. At least the office kind have interchangeable parts without many issues. Sorry, little rant about how much hate computers in cars.

I had quite a few ruined by those issues. I don't know if saw my post further up about Bonnevilles but that is what killed both. The second one the engine and computer system were transplants and it just wouldn't start half the time and no one could figure it out. Killed a Nissan Altima also. Because the insurance was to cheap to use a new ECM. So they picked up a used one and confused the engine so bad it sounded like a diesel. I took it Nissan 47 times and finally they were sick of me and told if the car doesn't say there is something wrong with it there is nothing we can do. Blow it up it's under warranty. Brand new car and the service managers answer. It kills me.

My first car was a Pontiac 6000. 1988. The v6 in those was carbureted and was terrible. So someone dropped a Honda motor in mine with the Pontiac tranny cause they bolted right together. My mom bought it and had it for 12 years before I got it. I drove it for 3 or so years before it rotted out. 257k when the odo quit working. I had it for like 2 years after that.

Used to be so easy when car companies made cars. Somewhere along the line they became to big to fail and not only made unnecessary changes but decided to make cheap junk with a throw away attitude. Wonder if culture led them or if they led culture? But I wouldn't drive anything new if it was given to me. I'm sorry 4 cylinder turbos will never be as good a v6. Small motors are absolutely not efficient if you want the car to move. And most cars are dumped because a light came on and no one knows why. Just sad. I'll get of my soap box now.

Thanks for the info and confirming what I knew was true. My old explorer is done for. I liked that truck. The heated seats still work and my ass is gonna miss that. The Lincolns broke like a year after I bought it. Way to expensive to fix a convenience.

I only read a little on those Coyotes but they seem like bad ass piece of engineering. I didn't know that you could get a stand alone PCM. I'm guessing its 2k for the system plus the price of the engine correct? Otherwise that not to bad considering what you are getting. I wouldn't put it into my explorer but I would love to drop a 5.0 in the Lincoln. It would be a beautiful sleeper. If the AWD could handle the extra horses.

Computer controls were the best thing to happen to cars. They absolutely belong in cars. 99% of the population has zero interest in carbs and drum brakes in their daily driver, and for good reason.

There’s still plenty of late 80s and early 90s v6s still running around with their extremely underwhelming power.

If reading wiring diagrams and merging harnesses isn’t in your skill set, buy something old and not rusty and stay in whatever time period yours skills are set in.

 

[joney]

That is what I figured. Computers always get in the way. Damn technology. Love that I can post this from my phone. But hate that I can't drop a motor from the same maker in a truck and use it because of a to be honest unnecessary computer.

Sure they monitors engines and control modules way better then we could but they don't belong in vehicles. They belong in offices. At least the office kind have interchangeable parts without many issues. Sorry, little rant about how much hate computers in cars.

I had quite a few ruined by those issues. I don't know if saw my post further up about Bonnevilles but that is what killed both. The second one the engine and computer system were transplants and it just wouldn't start half the time and no one could figure it out. Killed a Nissan Altima also. Because the insurance was to cheap to use a new ECM. So they picked up a used one and confused the engine so bad it sounded like a diesel. I took it Nissan 47 times and finally they were sick of me and told if the car doesn't say there is something wrong with it there is nothing we can do. Blow it up it's under warranty. Brand new car and the service managers answer. It kills me.

My first car was a Pontiac 6000. 1988. The v6 in those was carbureted and was terrible. So someone dropped a Honda motor in mine with the Pontiac tranny cause they bolted right together. My mom bought it and had it for 12 years before I got it. I drove it for 3 or so years before it rotted out. 257k when the odo quit working. I had it for like 2 years after that.

Used to be so easy when car companies made cars. Somewhere along the line they became to big to fail and not only made unnecessary changes but decided to make cheap junk with a throw away attitude. Wonder if culture led them or if they led culture? But I wouldn't drive anything new if it was given to me. I'm sorry 4 cylinder turbos will never be as good a v6. Small motors are absolutely not efficient if you want the car to move. And most cars are dumped because a light came on and no one knows why. Just sad. I'll get of my soap box now.

Thanks for the info and confirming what I knew was true. My old explorer is done for. I liked that truck. The heated seats still work and my ass is gonna miss that. The Lincolns broke like a year after I bought it. Way to expensive to fix a convenience.

I only read a little on those Coyotes but they seem like bad ass piece of engineering. I didn't know that you could get a stand alone PCM. I'm guessing its 2k for the system plus the price of the engine correct? Otherwise that not to bad considering what you are getting. I wouldn't put it into my explorer but I would love to drop a 5.0 in the Lincoln. It would be a beautiful sleeper. If the AWD could handle the extra horses.

Last no-computer car I had was a 400ci 76 Cordoba. Great car, but the unibody gave out eventually. Anything with no computer you'd have to find in a classic car sale. Anyway, I need 4WD and can't get that in a sedan.

 

[Easypoints23]

Computer controls were the best thing to happen to cars. They absolutely belong in cars. 99% of the population has zero interest in carbs and drum brakes in their daily driver, and for good reason.

There’s still plenty of late 80s and early 90s v6s still running around with their extremely underwhelming power.

If reading wiring diagrams and merging harnesses isn’t in your skill set, buy something old and not rusty and stay in whatever time period yours skills are set in.

I don't disagree with you on the carbs and drum brakes. They are garbage. I'm not a fan of going back that far. What I meant was they are to complicated currently and no user friendly to work on. My explorer is most likely headed to a junk yard because I don't have the skill set to do a timing chain job. I am not a mechanic. I also have a Lincoln that needs body parts. Both Ford vehicles. Both with 6 cylinder engine and AWD/ 4WD drive trains. Both are same weight and wheel base. So buy one parts car and fix both. But and I knew this when I asked its not really worth it. Because making an engine from a 2012 go in a 2004 isn't really possible because of computers and electronics.

I may have taken the ***** fest a little far and you are not wrong about the systems in cars. They do make them more drivable. I just wish they more user friendly and easier to modify.

The explorer isn't worth a new engine. I know that. But its also not worth my time to get a salvage engine that will potentially have the same problem. So its toast. Now I am down to 2 vehicles. My Honda has 81k on it but also need timing work and a slew of other things. It sat for 2 years or so but I got for next to nothing. May also be outta my skill set. Down to 1. My Lincoln is wrecked. Damn Pa deer population. The only thing I ever hit. It scares me because it way to complicated. I have no desire to work on it. I'm not a mechanic so my skill set is limited. Don't have money for shops to do work to any of these vehicles so I am left with 2 driveway anchors and a ****ty Honda.

2 are the same manufacturer with different bages. Without electronics I could combine them into one and have a good vehicle. Or buy one parts car and fix both without electronics. Like I said took probably took the *****ing to far but it just grinds my gear that 8 years makes that much of a difference. I feel like it didn't used to be that way.

 

[Mbrooks420]

I don't disagree with you on the carbs and drum brakes. They are garbage. I'm not a fan of going back that far. What I meant was they are to complicated currently and no user friendly to work on. My explorer is most likely headed to a junk yard because I don't have the skill set to do a timing chain job. I am not a mechanic. I also have a Lincoln that needs body parts. Both Ford vehicles. Both with 6 cylinder engine and AWD/ 4WD drive trains. Both are same weight and wheel base. So buy one parts car and fix both. But and I knew this when I asked its not really worth it. Because making an engine from a 2012 go in a 2004 isn't really possible because of computers and electronics.

I may have taken the ***** fest a little far and you are not wrong about the systems in cars. They do make them more drivable. I just wish they more user friendly and easier to modify.

The explorer isn't worth a new engine. I know that. But its also not worth my time to get a salvage engine that will potentially have the same problem. So its toast. Now I am down to 2 vehicles. My Honda has 81k on it but also need timing work and a slew of other things. It sat for 2 years or so but I got for next to nothing. May also be outta my skill set. Down to 1. My Lincoln is wrecked. Damn Pa deer population. The only thing I ever hit. It scares me because it way to complicated. I have no desire to work on it. I'm not a mechanic so my skill set is limited. Don't have money for shops to do work to any of these vehicles so I am left with 2 driveway anchors and a ****ty Honda.

2 are the same manufacturer with different bages. Without electronics I could combine them into one and have a good vehicle. Or buy one parts car and fix both without electronics. Like I said took probably took the *****ing to far but it just grinds my gear that 8 years makes that much of a difference. I feel like it didn't used to be that way.

FORScan isn’t that hard to use. It’d tell you everything going on behind the scenes.

A timing chain certainly isn’t new tech, and it’s not really that technical of a job. If you can pull an engine, you should be able to follow the directions to keep the cams in time while you swap tensioners/guides/chains.

If doing mechanical work isn’t what you want to do/build on the best bet would be to buy something someone has already restored, or buy a new throw away car and not worry about any repairs for 5-10 years. Toss it after the warranty, and you come to the first major issue.

I still see first and second gens everyday that still have 100k left in them. I’ve also been seeing a TON of late 70s early 80s with the inline 300 that has zero tech involved and needs nothing but some oil to run until the rest of the truck literally rots into dust.

 

[Easypoints23]

Last no-computer car I had was a 400ci 76 Cordoba. Great car, but the unibody gave out eventually. Anything with no computer you'd have to find in a classic car sale. Anyway, I need 4WD and can't get that in a sedan.

Besides ground clearance and AWD sedan is pretty versatile. My MKZ is AWD and it's easily taken on 2 feet of snow without a single slip. I worked in truck yard when I bought it and had no trouble in the dirt and mud. The only thing I wish I had was control of the drive wheels. Like a true 4WD. That way you don't lose the fun in functional lol

 

[Easypoints23]

FORScan isn’t that hard to use. It’d tell you everything going on behind the scenes.

A timing chain certainly isn’t new tech, and it’s not really that technical of a job. If you can pull an engine, you should be able to follow the directions to keep the cams in time while you swap tensioners/guides/chains.

If doing mechanical work isn’t what you want to do/build on the best bet would be to buy something someone has already restored, or buy a new throw away car and not worry about any repairs for 5-10 years. Toss it after the warranty, and you come to the first major issue.

I still see first and second gens everyday that still have 100k left in them. I’ve also been seeing a TON of late 70s early 80s with the inline 300 that has zero tech involved and needs nothing but some oil to run until the rest of the truck literally rots into dust.

My brother has a 96 F-150 with the inline 300. Those things are bullet proof. And trust me if I could buy a new car I would. That's what I've always done in this position. Not throw aways tho. I hate cheap feeling cars. The Honda kills me. It's way to cheap and not something I would normally buy. Hence the Lincoln and Eddie Bauer Edition Explorer. I was in pinch and the price was right

But this is the first time in my life I'm not in the position to buy something new. So I figured I try my hand a fixing what I got. I do maintain them myself. Oil changes, brakes, the basic stuff. I'm that guy the will try real hard to do something he's never done, get it right and have 3 other things break in a row. It feels like some sort of curse sometimes.

I am going to take a chance on the explorer. I have a buddy who I work with said he would give me hand. I also don't have much help. My brother has an ASE certification and refuses to work on cars. So there's that. Really he should be fixing the explorer anyway. He drove that thing flat out everywhere for almost a year. But I am the one who let him use. Learned a lesson there. No one will ever drive my vehicles again except me. To much of an investment to let someone else beat em up.

If anyone is going to do the beating its gonna be me damnit. Lol

Thanks for the info and...

Thanks for being civil in your earlier comment and not just writing me off. Things can get outta hand in these forums sometimes. I posted this earlier on another thread but this is an awesome forum. Super helpful and everyone is very respectful. I like it here. Might have to keep the X just so I can stay a member running or not lol.

Edit: Doesn't Forscan require a monthly membership fee? I thought I read somewhere it was $180 for the adapter and $180/month for the use of program.

 

[CDW6212R]

The electronic features of cars are great, but they shouldn't be so intertwined that nobody can alter them without a serious engineering degree and huge experience with the specific vehicle.

The Coyote system is called the Control Pack, I guess that would find it fast in a search. That removes the connections to the many main car electronics, and let's the engine go into anything. I just read recently that it's $2k, that's a lot if that's accurate.

The SOHC 4.0 V6 is a great engine when it's right, but it requires special attention with the timing system more often than anyone wants to do it. The care for the oil changes, quality etc, that lengthens the lifespan of the SOHC, or it kills it. Some people get 250k from them, while others have had it fail before it hit 50k. The design of the tensioners and guides is poor, and a this point nothing is going to change.

I would hunt a SOHC that you can find with a reliable condition, which is saying a ton. My 99 is still solid at 153k, but with the trans down, I will be doing the whole timing set stuff again. It should be fine for another 75-150k after that, depending on the care for the oil and air filter. I hope I can sell it to a coworker since I'm retiring before needing it again.

 

[CDW6212R]

Browse through my 99 Explorer's reconstruction project, I have a lot of good pictures in that for everything, and some for the SOHC as I did the work in 2006. That's my project link you see in my signature. That can help you decide how much "fun" the engine work might be.

Rebuilding a 2nd gen Explorer with a 1st gen rear clip

Hello, here is my mail vehicle upgrade project. I have a 93 Limited 4x4 which was going to start costing a bunch of money to rebuild the chassis, to last another 5-10 years. The engine and trans have tough miles on them, the brakes are trouble now to service every year from mail delivery. It's a...

www.explorerforum.com

 

[Easypoints23]

The electronic features of cars are great, but they shouldn't be so intertwined that nobody can alter them without a serious engineering degree and huge experience with the specific vehicle.

The Coyote system is called the Control Pack, I guess that would find it fast in a search. That removes the connections to the many main car electronics, and let's the engine go into anything. I just read recently that it's $2k, that's a lot if that's accurate.

The SOHC 4.0 V6 is a great engine when it's right, but it requires special attention with the timing system more often than anyone wants to do it. The care for the oil changes, quality etc, that lengthens the lifespan of the SOHC, or it kills it. Some people get 250k from them, while others have had it fail before it hit 50k. The design of the tensioners and guides is poor, and a this point nothing is going to change.

I would hunt a SOHC that you can find with a reliable condition, which is saying a ton. My 99 is still solid at 153k, but with the trans down, I will be doing the whole timing set stuff again. It should be fine for another 75-150k after that, depending on the care for the oil and air filter. I hope I can sell it to a coworker since I'm retiring before needing it again.

I am gonna check out that coyote engine. Just because I'm curious. I like when Ford does fun new things.

And besides the design I love that 4.0 SOHC. Why it tears me up to possibly get rid of it. That truck will pass anything except a gas station lol. Even with the rattles. And 182k is nothing to shake a stick at. I just wish I would have gotten is sooner. The body is the biggest issue with a new motor. The truck wouldn't last as long and same boat. 18 years of PA winters with minimal care has done a number on her. Even to get a salvage motor with 100k left on it I don't I'd get that outta the truck itself without major body work too. Its my hauling and towing vehicle. I would just like to get enough time out of it until I'm in a position to buy something else probably a little newer.

I'm self employed and I do a lot a driving for income. I can boost my bring home a lot having the ability to haul a loaded trailer. So everyday it sits it could potentially be making me money which I could put towards my other clunkers or getting something a little newer and better cared for. And it's sad to see my to favorite Fords sitting there broken and have to get in a Honda everyday. Which I don't much care for. If it wasn't the 150 hp special edition I don't think I could drive it daily. It's just not my cup of tea.

Edit: I will definitely check out you link. You guys are a wealth of information. Thanks so much for all the help.

 

[joney]

I am gonna check out that coyote engine. Just because I'm curious. I like when Ford does fun new things.

And besides the design I love that 4.0 SOHC. Why it tears me up to possibly get rid of it. That truck will pass anything except a gas station lol. Even with the rattles. And 182k is nothing to shake a stick at. I just wish I would have gotten is sooner. The body is the biggest issue with a new motor. The truck wouldn't last as long and same boat. 18 years of PA winters with minimal care has done a number on her. Even to get a salvage motor with 100k left on it I don't I'd get that outta the truck itself without major body work too. Its my hauling and towing vehicle. I would just like to get enough time out of it until I'm in a position to buy something else probably a little newer.

I'm self employed and I do a lot a driving for income. I can boost my bring home a lot having the ability to haul a loaded trailer. So everyday it sits it could potentially be making me money which I could put towards my other clunkers or getting something a little newer and better cared for. And it's sad to see my to favorite Fords sitting there broken and have to get in a Honda everyday. Which I don't much care for. If it wasn't the 150 hp special edition I don't think I could drive it daily. It's just not my cup of tea.

Edit: I will definitely check out you link. You guys are a wealth of information. Thanks so much for all the help.

Can you get hold of an Explorer from one of the no-salt states like AZ or maybe TX for instance? Rust is a *****, fighting it on my Ex.

 

[Easypoints23]

Can you get hold of an Explorer from one of the no-salt states like AZ or maybe TX for instance? Rust is a *****, fighting it on my Ex.

As long as it is 4WD that would be my best bet. I know a lot of southern trucks are sold in 2WD only version. I could potentially use my drive train but I don't know if that is something I can do myself. My cases axels and hubs are all in great shape.

When mine started going south my plan was actually to pick up an Expedition or Excursion. Since its mostly used for hauling the bigger the better. And although the 4.0 has no trouble pulling a 14 ft fully loaded trailer the 5.7L in the Expedition would better suited. And I would probably go diesel with an Excursion for gas mileage.

I guy I worked with had the 10 cylinder gas Excursion. That thing sounded mean so I would have to check out those a little closer. But when the explorer started tap dancing under hood I had to eat into my cash coffers a bit to buy something for a daily. So I'm trying to make some cash back to fix the X a bit so that I can use it to pay for its replacement. I can make more using it and my trailers for work.

If I do end up going with with something bigger the X will most likely stay. I have plenty of space for vehicles and then it can be a project truck and get the care it never got. If I wear it out it might go but that is something I haven't decided yet.

If I can't at least increase it life a little then it may have to go. Just because I can put part/scrap money towards another truck. But I'm gonn try to do the engine work and see what happens.