Dying right after start up? Weird issue, totally stumped. Videos

[AGodlyCanuck]

So my explorer has been acting up lately.
Mornings when I go to work it will die right after start up unless I give it extra throttle, during the day when it seems warmer it might idle fine but die right when I put it in gear.
other times it might just barely idle and buck and chug when I'm not giving it extra gas.

NO C. E. L on as well.

MAF is good, ECT sensor is good. Fuel pump Relay good.

Other than this issue it seems to drive fine. Quiet, Smooth.

I've pulled codes and they are 565 which is just an EVAP code, the other was 556. I replaced the fuel pump relay and that code went away.



Now it's just 565 and 111 which is EVAP and Clear.

What do you all think? I've got some videos.

 

[Roadrunner777]

Idle air control valve comes to mind, the computer should be commanding high idle at that moment. Ah, maybe more likely is the EVAP canister control solenoid stuck open which would basically be a big vacuum leak. For the evap you could plug the lines at the EVAP solenoid and see if it improves. Maybe even easier would be to plug the rubber line going to the canister, you could do that very easily.

 

[AGodlyCanuck]

Idle air control valve comes to mind, the computer should be commanding high idle at that moment. Ah, maybe more likely is the EVAP canister control solenoid stuck open which would basically be a big vacuum leak. For the evap you could plug the lines at the EVAP solenoid and see if it improves. Maybe even easier would be to plug the rubber line going to the canister, you could do that very easily.

I will give those a try!

does this tell you anything about the IACV?

 

[Roadrunner777]

As I understand the IAC, and I am not an expert, but it is closed if unplugged. When you plugged it back in, the idle went up briefly and back down. That, to me, indicate it's ok, which is not to say that it's intermittent or binding sometimes. I'm really leaning more towards the EVAP thing after napping on it.

 

[AGodlyCanuck]

As I understand the IAC, and I am not an expert, but it is closed if unplugged. When you plugged it back in, the idle went up briefly and back down. That, to me, indicate it's ok, which is not to say that it's intermittent or binding sometimes. I'm really leaning more towards the EVAP thing after napping on it.

the Evap thing you described makes sense because it does kind of seem like a strong vacuum leak. however I'll have to research how to do anything with it as I know nothing about how they work lol

 

[Roadrunner777]

the Evap thing you described makes sense because it does kind of seem like a strong vacuum leak. however I'll have to research how to do anything with it as I know nothing about how they work lol

Oh, it's simple, I'm surprised you didn't do this first, you were standing right in front of it. The EVAP canister is on the driver's fender with one hose going to it, and what is likely to be a rather decayed rubber elbow fitting right on top. Unplug the hose and stop the hose up with something. If that fixes it, you have a bad solenoid. This is not conclusive, you could have a leak further towards the engine on that same line. But, it's a 1 minute thing.

 

[AGodlyCanuck]

Oh, it's simple, I'm surprised you didn't do this first, you were standing right in front of it. The EVAP canister is on the driver's fender with one hose going to it, and what is likely to be a rather decayed rubber elbow fitting right on top. Unplug the hose and stop the hose up with something. If that fixes it, you have a bad solenoid. This is not conclusive, you could have a leak further towards the engine on that same line. But, it's a 1 minute thing.

I'll try it after work... wouldn't that be a kick in the dick.

 

[AGodlyCanuck]

soooooo after work I pulled the evap line off while it was running.

Canister side, nothing.
Throttle body side of the sensor... Oil?

IM thinking it was getting sucked in from the valve cover into the intake tube and settling in the throttle body line???????

****ing WHAT?

 

[Roadrunner777]

I was not expecting that. I did some internet searching and found one case of this for an entirely different vehicle. They guessed that the owner habitually overfilled his tank, causing liquid gas to be sucked into the canister where it condensed down to this oily residue, perhaps interacting with the charcoal in the canister.

I have been thinking about this for quite a while now. I don't want to go down a rabbit-hole of assuming this is the cause of your idle problem, fixing the EVAP system and then after all that time and money discovering it wasn't the root cause. I would get to the purge valve, you just have to follow that line back to the throttle body, it should be on that path. I would find a way to plug that line in such a way that the throttle body cannot draw air from the purge valve. If you were to locate the purge valve, remove it, and plug both hoses going to it, that would work. I would do that and wait, let the trigger conditions happen where you normally have the bad idle. If plugging those lines fixes the idle, you have a clear path of cause and it's most likely going to be a bad purge valve.

I think of you wanted to work on the EVAP system just for the sake of fixing it, whether it is the cause of the bad idle or not, then I would pull the purge valve and check for resistance across the two terminals. If it is open circuit, then you need to replace it. I read that a generic valve should be about 30 ohms. With no power to the terminals, you should not be able to suck or blow air through it. With power applied, you should be able to blow or suck air through it. Or this could be an intermittent and you might just replace the valve out of hand. They are about $40. This oily substance may have filled your EVAP canister. You can take the canister out, flip it over and see how much of this oily stuff you get out of it. I mean, you could end up replacing the valve, hoses and canister to make the EVAP system work properly again.

How much of this you do depends on your budget, and how important it is to you that it works properly.

And I want to say again, this EVAP thing may not be the root cause. I would plug those lines at the valve and try to make the problem happen again, and go from there.

But, you know what this reminds me of... a chronic issue for my Explorer. On a few occasions over the years, I have had the engine backfire. Usually a very cold winter start where it doesn't want to start. I got this terrible idle thing like you are describing, and found a hose blown off at the vacuum tree, the trans modulator line because it got oily from a failed modulator a long time ago. I ultimately put a zip-tie on it. So, I do like vacuum leak. I do like that the engine computer is pointing to the purge valve. I'm not quite sure how it would be stuck open, but maybe the oily stuff has fouled it in such a way that it cannot close. Intriguing.