New Noise

[koda2000]

My POS '01 ST, which I've owned for about 3 years now, could use timing chain work, but spinning the engine to pump up the tensioners has kept it going so far and stopped it from making noise at start-up.

This is not our first SOHC and we had one that had HORRIBLE TC noise, which eventually jumped time and we scraped it.

A while ago my ST started making a rattling noise, which sounds a bit like timing chain noise, but when I dropped the lower oil pan I only found a small piece of spring steel, which people thought was from the jack-shaft tensioner.

About a week ago the ST's engine started making a loud clicking noise when re-started, but almost never on the first start of the day. It may or may not make the noise on hot/warm restarts, but when it does it will stop making the clicking noise after it runs for a few minutes. It kind of sounds like a collapsed lifter on an OHV engine. The clicking never returns while running once it stops.

I'm thinking it's getting closer to engine replacement time, but other than the clicking noise (and light timing chain noise at around 2700 RPM) the engine runs great and is very strong.

During my next upcoming oil change I plan to remove the lower pan again to see if I find anything new.

Any thoughts on what's causing my clicking noise? I have an opinion, but I want to know if anyone has experienced this.

For the record, I will not consider rebuilding my current engine, but I may consider swapping in a newer engine with new TC parts. Those of you that have investigated quality reman 4.0L SOHC engines know they are very expensive (around $4k) and I'm not going down that road. I'm hoping to find a good used engine for maybe $1000-$1500 and I'll install new Motorcraft TC components.

 

[hondaslave1342]

As for much you help others, i sure wish i can help you with this current situation...i hope someone chimes in koda

 

[koda2000]

As for much you help others, i sure wish i can help you with this current situation...i hope someone chimes in koda

Thanks, but it doesn't seem like anyone will have anything to say on the subject. It's strange, it didn't do it at all last week. I think the jack-shaft tensioner has broken to the point where what's left of it flops around and sometimes ends up on the chain, causing the clicking noise, and at other times it ends up pushed away from the chain and is quite. I just wondered if anyone else had ever experience this clicking noise and had figured out what it is. To tell the truth at this point it's just embarrassing when it does it in the grocery store parking lot, much like when it had a very squeaky ball joint... LOL.

 

[boominXplorer]

Sure it's not the a/c clutch? Just had a crazy clicking noise in my wife's expedition and it was the ac compressor. I even replaced the clutch and the noise remained, swapped out the compressor and it's been good to go.

 

[koda2000]

I don't think it's the A/C clutch. Nearly every time it's made the noise I've been away from home. The one time it did it in my driveway it stopped making the noise before I could locate where it was coming from. I've even been carrying my mechanic's stethoscope in the truck. I've had several Explorer A/C clutches go bad, but they didn't sound anything like this clicking noise. I'll keep it in mind though.

 

[1998Exploder]

All SOHC motors have this problem. Tensioners. This is a big issue on 4.0, 4.6 and 5.4 engines.

Now, before you go crazy on this, replace the oil filter first. It has an anti-siphon valve in it and cheap filters may not work right. Get Motorcraft and check back in.

If that doesn't help, your oil sump intake is probably clogged with chain debris (tensioner pieces or gasket material), which is causing low oil pressure on the top of the engine. This can cause valvetrain noise on startup and chain rattle. It is far cheaper to replace these parts yourself than to replace the engine. Most high mileage motors have this problem anyway, so a rebuilt engine would be the only "swap option".

Some things to consider when you are replacing timing chain, tensioners, and guides:

1. Always drop your oil pan and clean the oil pump when replacing chain and tensioners
   
2. Always use OEM sprockets

That being said, it's a real pain to replace all this. But once it's done you're ready for another 200k miles.

If anyone owns 3v 4.6 or 5.4 motors (Expedition, F-150, Mustang, Explorer, etc.), you can get racing tensioners and guides that solve this problem permanently. Simply buy these kits from Modular Motorsports:

MMR Billet Primary Tensioners & ARP Bolts Ford Modular 4.6 / 5.4 [444050] - $199.99 : Modular Motorsports, Home of the Worlds Fastest Modular Engines
2005+ 4.6 3V Mustang / F150 MMR Billet Chain Guide kit [463400] - $399.99 : Modular Motorsports, Home of the Worlds Fastest Modular Engines

 

[koda2000]

All SOHC motors have this problem. Tensioners. This is a big issue on 4.0, 4.6 and 5.4 engines.

Now, before you go crazy on this, replace the oil filter first. It has an anti-siphon valve in it and cheap filters may not work right. Get Motorcraft and check back in.

If that doesn't help, your oil sump intake is probably clogged with chain debris (tensioner pieces or gasket material), which is causing low oil pressure on the top of the engine. This can cause valvetrain noise on startup and chain rattle. It is far cheaper to replace these parts yourself than to replace the engine. Most high mileage motors have this problem anyway, so a rebuilt engine would be the only "swap option".

Some things to consider when you are replacing timing chain, tensioners, and guides:

1. Always drop your oil pan and clean the oil pump when replacing chain and tensioners
   
2. Always use OEM sprockets

That being said, it's a real pain to replace all this. But once it's done you're ready for another 200k miles.

If anyone owns 3v 4.6 or 5.4 motors (Expedition, F-150, Mustang, Explorer, etc.), you can get racing tensioners and guides that solve this problem permanently. Simply buy these kits from Modular Motorsports:

MMR Billet Primary Tensioners & ARP Bolts Ford Modular 4.6 / 5.4 [444050] - $199.99 : Modular Motorsports, Home of the Worlds Fastest Modular Engines
2005+ 4.6 3V Mustang / F150 MMR Billet Chain Guide kit [463400] - $399.99 : Modular Motorsports, Home of the Worlds Fastest Modular Engines

While you've provided sound advice for those uninitiated to the Ford 4.0L SOHC engine, I do not believe it pertains to my situation.

This is not my first high mileage 4.0L SOHC, actually it's my third (and last). Neither is it my first SOHC engine to suffer the dreaded "timing chain death rattle" or timing chain failure. I am well aware of the issues with the SOHC timing chain guides and tensioners. I replaced my tensioners with new Motorcraft tensioners at the first sign of a rattle at startup to no avail. I've also removed and cleaned out my lower oil pan and oil pickup several times and plan to do it again during my next scheduled oil change. As I said, the only thing I ever found in the pan was a small (1") piece of curved spring-steel, which I believe to be from my jack-shaft tensioner. My oil pressure is fine and I use Motorcraft oil filters (which have the anti-drain back valve). I'm more inclined to believe this clicking noise may be due to some other problem (perhaps the A/C clutch, as suggested by @boominXplorer) or perhaps a bearing in some other pulley. As, at this time, it is not possible for me to reproduce the noise I guess I'll need to wait until it becomes more persistent.

My engine has other problems which make it a poor candidate for a rebuild and I do not plan to put any time or money into it. I'm not even sure the truck is worth saving. I would not buy a used engine w/out hearing it run first and would not install one w/out first replacing all the timing chain components. I am capable of doing all the work myself and if it takes me a month to get it done that's not a problem.

Thank you for your input.

 

[1998Exploder]

While you've provided sound advice for those uninitiated to the Ford 4.0L SOHC engine, I do not believe it pertains to my situation.

This is not my first high mileage 4.0L SOHC, actually it's my third (and last). Neither is it my first SOHC engine to suffer the dreaded "timing chain death rattle" or timing chain failure. I am well aware of the issues with the SOHC timing chain guides and tensioners. I replaced my tensioners with new Motorcraft tensioners at the first sign of a rattle at startup to no avail. I've also removed and cleaned out my lower oil pan and oil pickup several times and plan to do it again during my next scheduled oil change. As I said, the only thing I ever found in the pan was a small (1") piece of curved spring-steel, which I believe to be from my jack-shaft tensioner. My oil pressure is fine and I use Motorcraft oil filters (which have the anti-drain back valve). I'm more inclined to believe this clicking noise may be due to some other problem (perhaps the A/C clutch, as suggested by @boominXplorer) or perhaps a bearing in some other pulley. As, at this time, it is not possible for me to reproduce the noise I guess I'll need to wait until it becomes more persistent.

My engine has other problems which make it a poor candidate for a rebuild and I do not plan to put any time or money into it. I'm not even sure the truck is worth saving. I would not buy a used engine w/out hearing it run first and would not install one w/out first replacing all the timing chain components. I am capable of doing all the work myself and if it takes me a month to get it done that's not a problem.

Thank you for your input.

Not a problem. I never assume anything. Are you familiar with this TSB then? It matches your symptoms:

TSB 99-26-05


FORD: 1997-2000 EXPLORER, MOUNTAINEER


ISSUE:
A "knocking" noise at start up for up to 2 minutes from the left hand front chain cassette area may occur on some vehicles. After engine shutdown, the tensioner oil supply gallery empties. The noise may be due to air entering the left hand tensioner when the engine is restarted.

ACTION:
Replace the left hand camshaft tensioner with a revised Tensioner Kit. Refer to the Instruction Sheet within the Tensioner Kit for service procedure details.

WARNING: THE XU2Z-6K254-AA TENSIONER KIT IS FOR INSTALLATION ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE ENGINE ONLY. INSTALLATION OF THIS KIT ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ENGINE MAY RESULT IN ENGINE FAILURE. IF A TENSIONER IS NEEDED FOR THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ENGINE, USE KIT XU3Z-6K254-BA.



PART NUMBER PART NAME
XU2Z-6K254-AA Tensioner Kit - Left Side
XU3Z-6K254-BA Tensioner Kit - Right Side



OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES:
NONE

WARRANTY STATUS:
Eligible Under The Provisions Of The Basic Warranty Coverage

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME
992605A Install Camshaft Tensioner Kit 1.6 Hrs.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Either way it is poor oil control and the knock is actually a click click click noise.

 

[koda2000]

Not a problem. I never assume anything. Are you familiar with this TSB then? It matches your symptoms:

TSB 99-26-05


FORD: 1997-2000 EXPLORER, MOUNTAINEER


ISSUE:
A "knocking" noise at start up for up to 2 minutes from the left hand front chain cassette area may occur on some vehicles. After engine shutdown, the tensioner oil supply gallery empties. The noise may be due to air entering the left hand tensioner when the engine is restarted.

ACTION:
Replace the left hand camshaft tensioner with a revised Tensioner Kit. Refer to the Instruction Sheet within the Tensioner Kit for service procedure details.

WARNING: THE XU2Z-6K254-AA TENSIONER KIT IS FOR INSTALLATION ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE ENGINE ONLY. INSTALLATION OF THIS KIT ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ENGINE MAY RESULT IN ENGINE FAILURE. IF A TENSIONER IS NEEDED FOR THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ENGINE, USE KIT XU3Z-6K254-BA.



PART NUMBER PART NAME
XU2Z-6K254-AA Tensioner Kit - Left Side
XU3Z-6K254-BA Tensioner Kit - Right Side



OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES:
NONE

WARRANTY STATUS:
Eligible Under The Provisions Of The Basic Warranty Coverage

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME
992605A Install Camshaft Tensioner Kit 1.6 Hrs.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Either way it is poor oil control and the knock is actually a click click click noise.

Yes I'm aware of the TSB. My engine is a Job 2, late production 2001. It already had the oil restriction tube installed in the left oil tensioner oil gallery.

For the record I always pre-oil my engine to get oil pressure up before allowing it to start.

 

[ptf18]

Koda2000 and Fellows: Any idea what it would cost (and recommended work to do) to do a overhaul/rebuild on these engines with the idea to get the most mileage out of these engines?

Heck... and while we are at it, what about the automatic transmissions?

ptf18

 

[koda2000]

For the transmission you should figure on around $2000-$2300 for a professional rebuild. For the engine at Ford around the same. The bottom end on the 4.0L's (SOHC or OHV, which I understand use the same long block) is extremely durable, so as long as regular maintenance is preformed a full rebuild is probably not necessary, The expense on the SOHC engine is largely labor in removing and reinstalling the engine. If I was to consider having the top end of the engine rebuilt I'd either do it myself using Motorcraft parts, or have Ford do it. It's a complicated engine, Many mechanics don't want to mess with them and it's not uncommon for serious mistakes to be made. It's also an expensive engine if your considering purchasing a re-manufactured engine from places like Jasper Engines or PowerTrain.

Is it worth $4000-$5000 to keep a $3500 vehicle on the road? IDK. On one hand you can't replace it for that amount, but after spending that kind of money you still have a nearly 20 year old vehicle that will require other repairs over time, some of which can be costly (front/rear diffs, t-case, A/C, steering, electrical gremlins, rust).

I'm approaching a decision point with my 2WD '01 ST. Engine and trans issues (trans issue may be a minor repair, but with 200K on it,,, ?). The body and chassis are perfect (zero rust), suspension has been rebuilt, rear diff has been replaced and overhauled, interior is decent and everything now works as it should. I like the utility of the truck and use it as my daily driver, but only trust it around town. I tend to get attached to vehicles, so I'm considering keeping it going, but I'm having some trouble justifying the expense.

 

[ptf18]

Koda2000. I feel your pain. Had a 1988 Jeep Cherokee that we had bought new when our family was "growing". One of the first generation of SUVs. Drove it till the State Inspection guy blew up the engine. Had 230k on it. It was a good for me DD. The Jeep sat in my yard for a couple of years with the intent of redoing the engine. Wife finally "made" me decide what to do with.

Off to the salvage yard it went.....

Sounds as if your S/T is in very sound condition. With the exception of the engine/trans you have gone through the components that should give you LOTS of mileage into the future.

IMHO.... It would be a keeper. I realize that you'ld NEVER get you money out of it but a $5-7k "investment in a engine/transmission would keep you going for another 100k at least.

 

[david4451]

Phil as far as your ST goes, " better the devil you know ".

On the clicking issue, I had a click on my ST not loud on start up. It was something that was in the drivers side timing chain area. Being paranoid about failure of plastic timing parts I've taken engine out to do all timing parts. Low and behold all were in GOOD condition, my pre oiler is obviously doing its job.

I'm doing a complete overhaul and at 67 it's challenging, especially only me!

As for the clicking I've no idea what it was.

 

[1998Exploder]

Yes I'm aware of the TSB. My engine is a Job 2, late production 2001. It already had the oil restriction tube installed in the left oil tensioner oil gallery.

For the record I always pre-oil my engine to get oil pressure up before allowing it to start.

Understood. I pre-oiled my F-150 and it would still rattle. That was because the pump wasn't running at full PSI due to a clogged inlet. So it didn't matter either way. It took minutes to get up to full pressure. The issue plagues all SOHC motors, regardless of phasers.

I know that after high mileage this TSB can creep up again over time. Have had this problem on both my 2003, and again on the 2005. Fixed them both - you get to be proficient at it on the left bank.

Either way it sounds like you need to just keep driving it until it breaks. Then grab a running donor motor at the junker and call it a day. Rinse. Repeat. As long as it starts, runs, and doesn't burn oil like a crop duster, there really isn't any other affordable thing to do.

 

[koda2000]

Koda2000. I feel your pain. Had a 1988 Jeep Cherokee that we had bought new when our family was "growing". One of the first generation of SUVs. Drove it till the State Inspection guy blew up the engine. Had 230k on it. It was a good for me DD. The Jeep sat in my yard for a couple of years with the intent of redoing the engine. Wife finally "made" me decide what to do with.

Off to the salvage yard it went.....

Sounds as if your S/T is in very sound condition. With the exception of the engine/trans you have gone through the components that should give you LOTS of mileage into the future.

IMHO.... It would be a keeper. I realize that you'ld NEVER get you money out of it but a $5-7k "investment in a engine/transmission would keep you going for another 100k at least.

I know. This is the decision I'm struggling with. Like I said I tend to get attached to vehicles and I like the idea of "recycling" them, rather than buying a new/newer vehicle. Knock on wood, I'm going into my second full week with no clicking noise. Gonna keep driving it until it blows. Bought it for a grand as a sight-unseen, non-runner and put another $1500 or so into it. Half of that for 4 tires and a new windshield and the rest in used parts wherever it made sense and new parts where necessary. I figure I have a solid month's worth (10 hour days, 7 days a week) of my labor in it, as it had a ton if problems when I started working on it. Poor thing got no love by it's PO.

 

[koda2000]

Update:
I may be jinxing myself, but the intermittent clicking noise went away (going on 4 weeks ago now) and has not returned. I'm guessing perhaps I was correct in that whatever it was was related to my broken jack shaft tensioner and that it's now moved out of the way (?). Whatever it was, things are now back to normal. I'll drop the oil pan during my next oil change and see if I find anything new in there.