not starting no spark

[witchdoctor]

I don't know if a 91 has one, but could this be the infamous crankshaft position sensor?

 

[cutter]

How many miles on engine? Maybe chain or cam is broke.Remove cam sensor and see if inside is spinning?

 

[sajnaj]

so what am i really looking for a broken wire or one that is causing a open? i have checked so far from the coil pack to the icm. i know the first 4 pins on the icm are for pcm but what pins one the pcm conect to the icm? would me going back to the old ckp could that part cause it not to run? since it did not make and diff i took it back so that i could pay for other parts. and is there any way to check the pcm?

 

[MrShorty]

Really aren't specific ways to test the computer directly. You test the computer by
1) Running self-tests
2) Diagnosing codes that come up. If, over the course of your diagnosis, you find no external cause for the code, you assume the PCM is bad by process of elimination. If the computer won't run the self-tests, then you eliminate all external causes of this fault, and, again, determine the PCM is bad by process of elimination.

Here's a reference for you. http://fordfuelinjection.com/index.php?p=44 They don't have wiring diagrams, but they've got a fairly extensive list of things to check when you don't get codes.

 

[sajnaj]

ok for some reason today it gave me codes 3 times but i was not expecting it to flash them. but know it is not flashing any codes. but know the lite that i use to display the codes stays on untill i turn the key on then it turns off. but when i conect the jumper it gives me nothing.

 

[MrShorty]

My best guess for this behavior: a loose connection somewhere between the test light and/or jumper wire and the computer

 

[sajnaj]

ok i found the prob a bad jumper wire. but know im geting numbers that do not show up in my chiltons. such as 89-17 the codes i got were 17-87-89-87-17-87-89 in that order i know what the 87 is caused by i have the fuel pump disconected.

 

[sajnaj]

ok i re did the test about 5 times and got the correct codes but none of them relate to the vehicle not having a spark. the codes 16-87-89-86 those were the hard faults i dont have a clue how these would not cause it not to start now i know that the fuel pump is disconected and so is the solenoid. but i spray starting fluid into the manifodl and get nothing. i know the valves are oping because i can smell starting fluid in my oil.

 

[MrShorty]

According to this (http://www.dalidesign.com/hbook/2digit.html) code list, a KOEO 16 = Electronic ignition - IDM circuit fault. Unless you have a year/engine specific code list that says differently, I think we have a starting place.
I don't have access to a good pinpoint test or wiring diagram, and I've never had to deal with a KOEO 16. If it were me, my next step would be to go to the library and copy the pinpoint test for a KOEO 16 from Mitchell and go from there. In the absence of a proper pinpoint test, you're pretty much limited to checking the wiring between the ICM and the PCM to make sure everything is intact.

 

[sajnaj]

ok the wiring between the icm and pcm checks out. the wiring from the coil pack to the icm checks out fine. could the a bad ckp cause that code because i put the old one in when it did not fix the prob?

 

[MrShorty]

I'm not sure, but it seems a bad CKP usually shows up as a code 14 or 18. I haven't had to mess with a CKP before, but, if I understand how it works, it can't generate a signal unless the engine is rotating. If that's true, a bad CKP can't trigger a KOEO code, because a KOEO code is triggered with the engine off.
Have you checked for power to the ICM? ICM have a good ground? I wonder if Autozone has the ability to test these ICM's? It's rare, but not unheard of for the ICM to go bad on these.

 

[sajnaj]

ok i think i found a fault my ground that conects to the icm is give me a reading of 133 ohms i checked on a runing vehicle it gave me a reading of 33 ohms. is the ground from the icm grounded in a special way or should i just re ground it close to the body.

 

[sajnaj]

ok got it regrounded it kinda fires know it will give me a kick when trying to start. should i reset the computer to try and make it start or will this have no affect.

 

[MrShorty]

It wouldn't hurt to reset the computer. I don't know that it will make a difference as far as it not starting.
If you pull codes now, what do you get? Is the KOEO 16 gone?
If you crank the engine with a timing light hooked up (or however you prefer to check for spark), do you have spark at the plugs now?

 

[sajnaj]

i took the one of the plugs off and put it next to the manifold and could not see any spark when cranking the egine. how much voltage should i get from the coil pack?